50 réponses à ce sujet

[Gaz83]

Pretty much what the title says.

 

If you choose to ignore Spirit Blade, does the Knight Enchanter feel more balanced? 

[Serza]

Tried KE, kept dieing - not my style - reloaded three hours of gameplay, gonna go Rift Mage instead. Feels more like my thing as a Mage.

[Zenthar Aseth]

Just don't take Fade Shield.

[RavenousIron]

They just nerfed Barrier the other day, so you're really going to need Spirit Blade. SB isn't overpowered either, people act like it does a lot of damage or something.

[Rynas]

What was the nerf to Barrier?

[lastpawn]

It's not the Spirit Blade that's OP. Spirit Blade's just boring because that's what you end up doing most of the time -- it becomes autoattack.

 

If anything, I think Bioware went the WRONG way when they nerfed Spirit Blade's ability to combo. Instead, Spirit Blade should have done slightly less baseline damage and more combo damage because this way you'd actually have to think about using it.

 

When people complain about KE being OP, they mean, "You don't die." This may or may not have been resolved with the barrier changes.

[Poisd2Strike]

Pretty much what the title says.

 

If you choose to ignore Spirit Blade, does the Knight Enchanter feel more balanced? 

 

If you are going for feeling more balanced when playing Knight Enchanter, you should avoid taking most passives that enhance barrier / barrier damage boost, help with barrier / mana regeneration, or help with ability cooldown.  There are several in Spirit (Guardian Spirit, Rejuvenating Barrier, Strength of Spirits) and Inferno (Flashpoint, Chaotic Focus and Clean Burn) and Knight Enchanter (Combat Clarity, Fade Shield and Knight Protector).  If you don't take the Fade Shield passive, however, you will not be able to quickly regenerate your barrier and will be more dependent upon your barrier ability cooldown.  Spirit Blade does decent damage but only really shines against barrier and guard. 

[Artagal]

I've been doing some experiments in this direction with Vivienne lately, because if the classic KE build based on spirit blade is OP when controlled by the player, the very same character with the very same build will die on a regular basis if you let the (dumb) AI play her (especially on nightmare)... And i want to control my Inquisitor, not viv.

 

It's not perfect yet, but she's ok as a mid-ranged mage : She gets up to 3 passives that increase her mana regen, is less squishy thanks to the constant barrier and can still deal some decent damage/CC.

 

I have more testing to do, but my feeling is that it could be a better option for Viv if you want to let the AI control her most of the time.

[Lucrece]

KE wasn't OP, it was simply immortal. Its damage is pretty meh, but then all mage damage seems meh when you compare it to rogue/reaver.

[Matth85]

KE wasn't OP, it was simply immortal. Its damage is pretty meh, but then all mage damage seems meh when you compare it to rogue/reaver.

You say what now? (On the second part. I do agree on the first part )

[Zenthar Aseth]

KE wasn't OP, it was simply immortal. Its damage is pretty meh, but then all mage damage seems meh when you compare it to rogue/reaver.

Being immortal isn't overpowered?

[RavenousIron]

What was the nerf to Barrier?

They lowered how many points Barrier has. So it isn't as strong anymore. Also, if Knight Enchanter didn't have that Passive that gives Barrier on hit the class wouldn't work at all. Also, yes the nerf to Barrier does effect KE. Lastly I don't know why you would spam Spirit Blade, you actually do less damage by doing that. Sure you can use it 3-5 times on an enemy, but doing it for the entire fight will actually hurt your damage in the long run.

[actionhero112]

You use spirit blade to lessen your high damage cooldowns, like fire mine, fade veil and energy barrage, not because it itself is the strongest ability around. Although 400% weapon damage isn't exactly weak, and being able to apply that every second to every enemy in it's radius is quite potent. 

 

Definitely the strongest mage class, though I don't think it's the best at controlling the battlefield, that goes to Rift mage. Stronger than Necromancer though. That class is just yeuch. 

[Lucrece]

Being immortal isn't overpowered?

 

Not when you can kill everything so fast you don't even stand the chance of dying. And to be hinest any non-retard can avoid dying on Nightmare. You die when you play badly.

[Rynas]

They lowered how many points Barrier has. So it isn't as strong anymore. Also, if Knight Enchanter didn't have that Passive that gives Barrier on hit the class wouldn't work at all. Also, yes the nerf to Barrier does effect KE. Lastly I don't know why you would spam Spirit Blade, you actually do less damage by doing that. Sure you can use it 3-5 times on an enemy, but doing it for the entire fight will actually hurt your damage in the long run.

 

Was this in the patch notes somewhere?

 

I just updated to the latest version (was pre-patch 2 before) and my listed barrier is the same as before.  WeaponDamage * 48 + 180.  So the listed barrier amount hasn't changed, at least.

[Gaesesagai]

So if you play as KE, just don't take the passives in KE tree, the SB or the FC. Don't take the barrier passives in Spirit either. Or the ones in Fire......

Hilarious.

Just play naked (well in the brown pj -.- ) with no skill points used if you're so badass and want a "challange" xD Use the power of your brain to kill mobs...

[Grondoth]

Pretty much what the title says.

 

If you choose to ignore Spirit Blade, does the Knight Enchanter feel more balanced? 

 

I do this. Using the passives makes your barriers decay much slower, helping you as a support mage. Even Fade Shield is much more balanced because you're not getting crazy boosts from the damage you're putting out all the time. You can still position yourself to use Disruption Field if you want, and the focus ability is just as powerful as it is when you're always swinging. The sword's damage, especially against guard and barrier, is what turns fade shield into an always have full barrier proposition. Normally you do damage in chunks, which means your barrier has time to decay. Staff hits alone just don't bump it up.

[Poisd2Strike]

So if you play as KE, just don't take the passives in KE tree, the SB or the FC. Don't take the barrier passives in Spirit either. Or the ones in Fire......

Hilarious.

Just play naked (well in the brown pj -.- ) with no skill points used if you're so badass and want a "challange" xD Use the power of your brain to kill mobs...

 

No.  But if you play Knight Enchanter and if you want Knight Enchanter to be more of a challenge, you would need to limit boosts to your barrier and mana regen.  Or, don't play Knight Enchanter.  Spirit Blade has nothing to do with Knight Enchanter being thought of as OP.  It isn't the damage you do, but rather the almost constant barrier that makes KE arguably OP.    Spirit Blade is primarily used to deal with enemy barrier and guard.  I was able to solo the Dragon on the Storm Coast (lvl 19), since other 3 party members quickly died, on normal difficulty as a lvl 16 Knight Enchanter Mage.  I lost almost no health and didn't have to use any health potions.  The Dragon gave itself full guard / armor 4 or 5 times during the fight.  It took about 15 - 20 minutes to kill the Dragon, since my equipment was decent but not spectacular.  I also had no equipment that reduced lighting damage and did not finish the Temple in the Forbidden Oasis.  Opening the last area in the Temple (with shards) gives you bonus lightning resistance.

[Jester]

So if you play as KE, just don't take the passives in KE tree, the SB or the FC. Don't take the barrier passives in Spirit either. Or the ones in Fire......

Hilarious.

Just play naked (well in the brown pj -.- ) with no skill points used if you're so badass and want a "challange" xD Use the power of your brain to kill mobs...

Ekhm.. no. 

There is only one overpowered passive - the one which gives barrier based on damage dealt. 

Spirit Blade in and of itself is weak. 

[MadDemiurg]

SB serves only 2 things - lower your cooldowns through clean burn and serve as a better auto attack. If gathering storm reduced cd by 0.5 sec on each hit fully ranged KE would be very viable. People who actually spent any significant amount of time playing KE know that it's not SB and even not Fade Shield that make KE so strong - it's Fade Cloak. It's a low cost survivability ability that deals very solid damage and allows you to avoid damage, CC and disruption. Since SB lowers cd on the cloak it's rather essential. If you chose not to use it you're stuck with much higher cd, so yes, you would be less powerful.

[Sevitan7]

 

Fade Cloak

 

Dat Wisdom.

[actionhero112]

Ekhm.. no. 

There is only one overpowered passive - the one which gives barrier based on damage dealt. 

Spirit Blade in and of itself is weak. 

 

400% aoe spammable weapon damage that goes through armor is hardly "weak." 

 

It's very strong in it's own right. 

[Gaz83]

Thank you all for your replies.

 

 

I do this. Using the passives makes your barriers decay much slower, helping you as a support mage. Even Fade Shield is much more balanced because you're not getting crazy boosts from the damage you're putting out all the time. You can still position yourself to use Disruption Field if you want, and the focus ability is just as powerful as it is when you're always swinging. The sword's damage, especially against guard and barrier, is what turns fade shield into an always have full barrier proposition. Normally you do damage in chunks, which means your barrier has time to decay. Staff hits alone just don't bump it up.

 

This is the answer I was hoping for, although many seem to disagree with your summary. I enjoy  some of the skills in KE, but don't want an immortal, two button spamming death machine. I think I'll give it a run on my next character, use staff and spells only to build my barrier. 

 

 

 

It isn't the damage you do, but rather the almost constant barrier that makes KE arguably OP

 

But in my experience - my first (abandoned) run through was with a KE - it was Spirit Blade that allowed you to keep said barrier up at all times. Three hits or so would give you full barrier nine times out of ten. From what I can gather, regular auto attacks won't build it up at anywhere near that speed, given that the amount obtained it based on the damage your attacks do. In theory, this allows the class to remain very powerful, but also removes some of the cheapness. Hence the topic. I just wanted to hear other's opinions. 

[Zenthar Aseth]

Not when you can kill everything so fast you don't even stand the chance of dying. And to be hinest any non-retard can avoid dying on Nightmare. You die when you play badly.

Your first sentence appears to have no relevance to what I said. As for the second, that's just stupid. There's a huge difference between having to actually play your class to not die/to do damage and holding down the Spirit Blade key. You even say it yourself -- "you die when you play badly" -- on KE it doesn't matter how you play. But maybe you want to subtly brag about how easy Nightmare was for you some more, I'm sure there are ladies around here somewhere who will be very impressed. The rest of us, not so much, seeing as it's irrelevant to how and why KE is OP.

[Selea]

SB serves only 2 things - lower your cooldowns through clean burn and serve as a better auto attack. If gathering storm reduced cd by 0.5 sec on each hit fully ranged KE would be very viable. People who actually spent any significant amount of time playing KE know that it's not SB and even not Fade Shield that make KE so strong.

KE is not "strong" in comparison to other mage specs (to not to talk in general), it is just immortal given a skill that has no drawbacks at all on its use. This broken skill is NOT Fade Cloak (it is a powerful spell but the CD and range means you cannot use it in a way to make the build broken in itself) but Fade Shield.

Why don't you try to play a KE without Fade Shield and see if it's really Fade Cloak that makes the spec invincible? Let's see: the first time you go in melee to do Fade Cloak you get destroyed 1-2 seconds after doing it in nightmare (2-3 people aggroing on you - and they will given the huge burst damage - and pounding on you as a mage means death almost immediately without a regenerating barrier). Really powerful, how not... Fade Cloak is so powerful only because with the damage out of it you immediately regenerate all of your barrier (plus you can keep it up either with SB or other spells) so you can easily take the aggro after. By itself is nothing at all.