60 réponses à ce sujet

[TurretSyndrome]

Mages seem to get stupider with every game. Not too long before there are only 3 spells: Heal, Cast and Jam.

[Dracon525]

Because people complained mages were OP in the previous games? Idk. Or it could just be...

So they made a specialization (Knight Enchanter) that can solo the whole game (including dragons) on Nightmare difficulty? lol

[Dracon525]

Mages seem to get stupider with every game. Not too long before there are only 3 spells: Heal, Cast and Jam.

Main Character cast Jam. Enemy is now sticky.

[mickey111]

What in the blazing hell does a console have to do with anything, given that DAO, DAA, and DA2 all had varied magic systems, on consoles as well as PC?

 

And as far as the OP - Given Skyrim's influence, I imagine they saw the trimming Bethesda did to their magic trees, and went "Hey, let's see if we can cut out more than they did!"

 

 

 

 

this is the most likely explanation. Game developers like Bioware and publishers like EA should go back to their old jobs of reading graphs or whatever it is they did before they decided that a career in gaming could make them rich.

[Vader20]

What in the blazing hell does a console have to do with anything, given that DAO, DAA, and DA2 all had varied magic systems, on consoles as well as PC?

 

And as far as the OP - Given Skyrim's influence, I imagine they saw the trimming Bethesda did to their magic trees, and went "Hey, let's see if we can cut out more than they did!"

 

Honestly though, DAI's entire stance is anti-variability. Not just mages, but across the board.

 

Really ? I wonder why Bioware thought that Skyrim was such a good example to follow.... They were very wrong. The amount of dumbing down in that game was ridiculous.

[Jackums]

I agree. My biggest issue with this game was the simplifying of the spell trees.

 

I can't think of any reason they'd want to replace unique, flavorful schools of magic with bland, cookie cutter elemental trees. With all of the improvements this game had over previous installments, that was one of the major setbacks, IMO. Though the whole skill system in general has been dumbed down in this game. I guess it was about streamlining the game or something.

[Catastrophy]

Is it? At least the spells feel useful now.

[ZipZap2000]

So they made a specialization (Knight Enchanter) that can solo the whole game (including dragons) on Nightmare difficulty? lol

Hahahaahahaaha

 

Yeah this and they took healing out because everyone loaded up on mages with healing but added barrier, so now you can load up on mages with barrier. 

 

Yo dawg i heard you don't wanna get killed by synthetics.......

[WillieStyle]

Yeah.  What this game really needs is shapeshifting. 

[dlux]

Only 4 schools and 3 of them are more or less only damage spells... Not to mention the elemental school used to be just 1 school (Primal) and now it's 3 separate schools?

 

It seems so bland, what happened to creation, arcane, entropy and the specializations?  I started as a mage but as soon as I saw how limited they were I immediately lost interest.

Removed to make the game more accessible. This boosts sales in theory.

[Lee T]

Now that we live in the age of internet you'll have to remember that Bioware has extensive documentation about a huge quantity of characters and our choices in develloping them. I'm willing to bet that magic school disapeared because they were, unfortunately, statistically disused. It's a cost thing. My DAO warrior was a double sword/bow hybrid, It seems I was in the minority...

[Yrkoon]

So for the sake of discussion, WHAT exactly are we missing from DAO that isn't replicated in DAI or that wasn't largely a different named spell that accomplished the same overall effect? [/font]

Oh, not too much. Off the top of my head...

Petrify
Regenerate
Rejuvenate
Glyph of Paralysis
Grease
Stinging Swarm
Spell Bloom
Mana Clash
Crushing Prison
Vulnerability Hex
Affliction Hex
Misdirection Hex
Death Hex
Sleep
Curse of Mortality
Death Cloud
Spider Shape
Bear Shape
Blood Wound
Telekinetic Weapons
Flaming Weapons
Frost Weapons


And we can't ignore the Spell Combos, All 10 of them, which produced new spell effects of their own.


Lets get real now. DA:I does a lot of things really well. But magic is NOT one of them. They dropped the ball here, so they should be called out for it. It's an area that needs a sh*t-ton of improvement. And we all know it.

[Yrkoon]

Some say magic was dumbed-down.  I say Bioware trimmed the fat.

I'm not on a f*cking diet. I don't need the fat trimmed from my juicy steak.

[Natureguy85]

I really miss the Force mage from DA2. I had so much fun with that and was planning on making my Quizzy one as well... only to learn it wasn't in. And that was after I found out Blood magic wasn't in either after deciding my Quizzy was gonna be a blood mage So much disappointment lol. My Hawke was a Force mage with only a bit of Ice magic thrown in, as the Primal school was never really my favorite. And mage is my favorite class so yeah... in that regard the options for a mage in DAI is a little disappointing.

 

Woah, woah, woah, woah, woah.... Lois, this is not my Batman glass.

 

You can't be a blood mage in this game? I can see it from a story perspective as that wouldn't go over so well, but why steal something a lot of players loved?

 

What in the blazing hell does a console have to do with anything, given that DAO, DAA, and DA2 all had varied magic systems, on consoles as well as PC?

 

And as far as the OP - Given Skyrim's influence, I imagine they saw the trimming Bethesda did to their magic trees, and went "Hey, let's see if we can cut out more than they did!"

 

Honestly though, DAI's entire stance is anti-variability. Not just mages, but across the board.

 

Probably just the limited ability slots.

[AlanC9]

Oh, not too much. Off the top of my head...

Looking at your list, I'm not sure there's too much I miss there. A lot of those either sucked or weren't very interesting

[mickey111]

Looking at your list, I'm not sure there's too much I miss there. A lot of those either sucked or weren't very interesting

They really didnt
Were you one of the people that struggled with the unpatched dao? I wasnt one of them. I wanted a harder mode than nightmare. But I guess I was one of the few who used mostly support, healing and CC. Many of the removed spells made origins almost too easy

[Yrkoon]

Looking at your list, I'm not sure there's too much I miss there. A lot of those either sucked or weren't very interesting

Many of them weren't very useful for the player, that's true. But what makes their elimination so significant is that the enemies used them too. And this resulted in a far more varied encounter design in DA:O, and by extension, the player's tactics during the battle to combat those spells when they get affected by them

Take Curse of Mortality, for example. It's a rather worthless spell for your party to bother using. But it's a totally different story when the enemy afflicts one of your party members with it, especially early on when no one in your party can dispel it.

DA:I lacks this dimension in its mage battles, and as a result, battles against mages in DA:I tend to be rather DULL affairs, even if they happen to be difficult.

[Crackseed]

Oh, not too much. Off the top of my head...

Petrify
Regenerate
Rejuvenate
Glyph of Paralysis
Grease
Stinging Swarm
Spell Bloom
Mana Clash
Crushing Prison
Vulnerability Hex
Affliction Hex
Misdirection Hex
Death Hex
Sleep
Curse of Mortality
Death Cloud
Spider Shape
Bear Shape
Blood Wound
Telekinetic Weapons
Flaming Weapons
Frost Weapons


And we can't ignore the Spell Combos, All 10 of them, which produced new spell effects of their own.


Lets get real now. DA:I does a lot of things really well. But magic is NOT one of them. They dropped the ball here, so they should be called out for it. It's an area that needs a sh*t-ton of improvement. And we all know it.

 

 

As someone else pointed out, the majority of this list was redundant in some form or purely flavor for "strange" builds. DAI's mages are not boring, lackluster or "gimped" in any fashion.

 

However, I DO agree with you 100% on the enemy mages. While I totally want their awesome casting animations (seriously, why don't we ever bust out a tome while spell casting?!) they are pretty lackluster on the combat front. Ooo, Ice/Fire mines and a few direct damage spells

 

Where's the enemy Necromancers, Rift Mages and KEs? That is where the ball was dropped - but as far as the PC mage is concerned? I think we've got plenty of CC, utility and pure pwnage packed into the class without it being overpoweringly good like in DAO (and I don't have an issue with OP classes in an SP game, it just made warriors/rogues feel lackluster is all)

[Yrkoon]

As someone else pointed out, the majority of this list was redundant in some form or purely flavor for "strange" builds.

Strange Builds? You mean the ability to customize your mage so that he plays differently than every other mage. Yeah... Useless flavor. Why have it when we can just have a game where all mages are nothing more than archers with colorful 'pew-pew' arrows.

[Crackseed]

Strange Builds? You mean the ability to customize your character the way you wish. Yeah... Useless flavor. Why have it when we can just have a game where mages are nothing more than archers with colorful 'pew-pew' arrows.

 

You know what I mean - strange as in something that might not be optimized but is just fun for "Hey, I have a Frost weapons CC/Support mage build!"

 

Which, btw - I have nothing against. It's just DAO's magic system suffered the issue of massive spell bloat when half of it was useless outside of giving enemy mages a "I have no idea what this one will cast" RNG factor to it.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you about the feeling of "Man, so few spells now" as much as even if we have far fewer trees + no healing spells, I'd argue that what we do have is overall, far more effective and useful without much bloat/wasted spell space. There's certainly a few spells in the game that are meh though.

[Yrkoon]

You know what I mean - strange as in something that might not be optimized but is just fun for "Hey, I have a Frost weapons CC/Support mage build!"

I know exactly what you mean. You are trivializing standard RPG qualities such as build customization choice. Trying to shoo them away as unimportant simply because DA:I lacks them.


And which is it? Are the spells in DA:O too powerful? Or are they just window dressing that don't make a difference in combat? You people have made both arguments on this very page.

[AlanC9]

And which is it? Are the spells in DA:O too powerful? Or are they just window dressing that don't make a difference in combat? You people have made both arguments on this very page.

Couldn't some spells be in the first category and other spells be in the second?

[Crackseed]

I know exactly what you mean. You are trivializing standard RPG qualities such as build customization choice. Trying to shoo them away as unimportant simply because DA:I lacks them.


And which is it? Are the spells in DA:O too powerful? Or are they just window dressing that don't make a difference in combat? You people have made both arguments on this very page.

 

Please don't tell me I'm shooing them away - I'm simply having a debate in which I'm expressing that I felt DAO had too much redundant spells - I'm all for unique and interesting options available to players. I don't think DAI's magic system is perfect or close to it, but if I consider my playtime as a mage in DAO versus DAI, I find DAI more enjoyable even if my spell book is far slimmer.

 

I don't think DAO mages in and of themselves were an issue as much as they simply were so above and beyond the other 2 classes it was kind of jarring to play a mage then go to a warrior/rogue and wonder where all your cool stuff was.

 

*shrug* It's simply my opinion and in no way the definitive logic/answer.