93 réponses à ce sujet

[Aimi]

Oh well, "gritty and dark"...everything has to be that nowadays? It's Game of Thrones, isn't it? Oh damn George, you made everyone wanting things to be hopeless, weddings turning foul, main chars that really have potential for storytelling die before they seem to become interesting, people get shot while sitting on the privy, lots of nudity and ... a plot that so far JUST DOESN'T ADVANCE!!! FINISH THE NEXT BOOK, GEORGE!!!
 
Ahem, sorry about that...oh yes, gritty and dark. Very important, very important, yes indeed...get on with the thread...

Don't forget about how Martin actually doesn't seem to know much of anything about actual political intrigue or actual war. Most of the big plans and conflicts in his books don't make sense, and most of the characters appear to be brain-dead. The few who don't look like total morons (because they don't screw up as egregiously as everybody else) get lauded as geniuses by an adoring reading/viewing public when in reality the likes of Tywin Lannister, Petyr Baelish, or Varys would have been totally helpless when up against a real political/military genius like Köprülü Mehmed Paşa, Otto von Bismarck, or Chanakya.

That might be overly harsh, because Martin does have to interweave intrigue, warfare, and character development and that is not an easy task. But the result is that some things occur that are fairly difficult to explain.

[Nerevar-as]

Well, and having interesting chars die can also shoot an author in the knee quite easily, if he has no real interesting replacements. I am afraid that GoT/ASoIaF might struggle much more with certain persons gone that drank too much wine/got shot on the privy. You can already feel how King's Landing is much more dull without them. And it's still open to see if a certain one-eyed pirate can make up for the lack of interesting antagonists in the future.

 

As far as death goes: In BG1 and 2 chars could die. My cleric revived them, and if it was the cleric, I reloaded, because going to the temple was usually such a drag. Modern games just spare me that.

 

But then its also true; as Death once said: I AM DEATH, NOT TAXES. I ONLY COME ONCE!

King´s Landing would be even duller with them. They had won, and unlike the current idiot they would have kept opposition in check. Also, the privy death I didn´t see coming, while the one in the first book I saw from very early on and the Red Weding the moment Frey´s accepted to renew the alliance. We just didn´t need 600 pages to see Cersei make everything her betters had done fall to ruin, we already knew she wasn´t very brilliant. But it´s a problem after ASoS, things take too long to happen. Books 4 & 5 read very much like Wheel of Time after Jordan lost control of the story, too much writing for what actually happens.

 

Game wise, I´d say BW is just playing it safe. Nothing that can upset a more casual player, nothing that can thrill people who look for more. At least for those of us who aren´t graphic ****** the indies are getting the interesting games out.

[Ashevajak]

Pretty short medievel game then walk 1 mile in grap boots ger a blister.. it gets gangrenous. you drink dirty water and die of Dysentery.

 

To be honest, one of my SKyrim: Requiem playthroughs was basically like this.

 

Though I got arrested as well, which seemed to stall the development of whatever illness I caught from that psychopathic wolf (I got arrested because I was trying to steal money for a "cure disease" potion, because I had upset the gods, and so shrines were not helping.  I also tried to steal a horse to escape the guards, which meant I definitely couldn't afford to pay my bounty off).  So after I was released, I walked directly into a snowstorm.  It's questionable whether my character died due to starvation, exposure, disease, dehydration or stupidity.

 

Still, it was better than the time my character killed Nazeem, then killed half of Whiterun to (unsuccesfully) cover up the crime, then ran away to the Pale, only to get eaten by a sabretooth cat.  That playthrough sucked.

[Natureguy85]

To be honest, one of my SKyrim: Requiem playthroughs was basically like this.

 

Though I got arrested as well, which seemed to stall the development of whatever illness I caught from that psychopathic wolf (I got arrested because I was trying to steal money for a "cure disease" potion, because I had upset the gods, and so shrines were not helping.  I also tried to steal a horse to escape the guards, which meant I definitely couldn't afford to pay my bounty off).  So after I was released, I walked directly into a snowstorm.  It's questionable whether my character died due to starvation, exposure, disease, dehydration or stupidity.

 

Still, it was better than the time my character killed Nazeem, then killed half of Whiterun to (unsuccesfully) cover up the crime, then ran away to the Pale, only to get eaten by a sabretooth cat.  That playthrough sucked.

 

You're a bad guy.

[Ashevajak]

Eh, that horse belonged to a bandit anyway.  No-one blinks when you steal gold, skooma and lives from bandits, but take one horse and it's all "stop, criminal scum!"

[Aulis Vaara]

If you want reality, there's a whole world of reality right outside your door. This is a game, we play this to get away from that ****.

[Lennard Testarossa]

If you want reality, there's a whole world of reality right outside your door. This is a game, we play this to get away from that ****.

 

Who is 'we'?

[Sasie]

I thought this was going to be a thread asking for Dragon Age to copy Witcher 3 and make everyone an sexist, homofobic douchebag that I wouldn't save if they were the last man/woman in the universe but thankfully I was pleasantly surprised. Unless the OP does want a 'gritty' universe like that but is just too polite to say it? Going to give him the benefit of the doubt though.

As for the rest I would like time schedules as well but many of the suggestions just sounds like more time sinks. How do you really make crafting take time without artificially extending the game unless the game has a resting system like Baldur's gate? Likewise everyone not being on the same level has the potential to make gameplay irrelevant it's not fun if the game feels like playing with cheat mode on.

[Cyonan]

I thought this was going to be a thread asking for Dragon Age to copy Witcher 3 and make everyone an sexist, homofobic douchebag that I wouldn't save if they were the last man/woman in the universe but thankfully I was pleasantly surprised. Unless the OP does want a 'gritty' universe like that but is just too polite to say it? Going to give him the benefit of the doubt though.

As for the rest I would like time schedules as well but many of the suggestions just sounds like more time sinks. How do you really make crafting take time without artificially extending the game unless the game has a resting system like Baldur's gate? Likewise everyone not being on the same level has the potential to make gameplay irrelevant it's not fun if the game feels like playing with cheat mode on.

 

The thing with the BG rest system is that you can spam sleep. If you're going to add a timer then let me click rest 5 times to instantly finish it, why bother even having the timer at all?

[nici2412]

I thought this was going to be a thread asking for Dragon Age to copy Witcher 3 and make everyone an sexist, homofobic douchebag that I wouldn't save if they were the last man/woman in the universe but thankfully I was pleasantly surprised. Unless the OP does want a 'gritty' universe like that but is just too polite to say it? Going to give him the benefit of the doubt though.

As for the rest I would like time schedules as well but many of the suggestions just sounds like more time sinks. How do you really make crafting take time without artificially extending the game unless the game has a resting system like Baldur's gate? Likewise everyone not being on the same level has the potential to make gameplay irrelevant it's not fun if the game feels like playing with cheat mode on.

Having no clue about the game but still writing a lot of bullshit. Classic BSN

Ps: Funny how you write you are pleasantly surprised this thread is not about Witcher 3 and at the same time you are trying to start a flamewar with your dumb comment.

[Sasie]

Having no clue about the game but still writing a lot of bullshit. Classic BSN

Ps: Funny how you write you are pleasantly surprised this thread is not about Witcher 3 and at the same time you are trying to start a flamewar with your dumb comment.

I played both Witcher/Witcher 2 and to me that's exactly what the Witcher universe is. It's filled with unpleasant people with few exceptions. Witcher 1 was nice enough since the person could be neutral through the entire story and not take sides in the racial wars but there is a lot of sexism or nasty things in these games and most of the time none of the sides are worth saving. Thankfully in Witcher 1 we didn't have to.

Witcher 2 I could never enjoy because Geralt mostly seemed to pretend to be neutral as an excuse when speaking to the kings who wanted his service, other times he had no problem picking one side over the other. Personally I prefer Bioware's approach of making everything politically correct so to speak. If there can be dragons there can certainly also be people who are nice to each other.
 

 

The thing with the BG rest system is that you can spam sleep. If you're going to add a timer then let me click rest 5 times to instantly finish it, why bother even having the timer at all?

 

Well it's a nice way to emulate passing of time without making the player sit there and wait. Not saying it's perfect but I prefer it to "come back in two hours" myself.

[herkles]

I played both Witcher/Witcher 2 and to me that's exactly what the Witcher universe is. It's filled with unpleasant people with few exceptions. Witcher 1 was nice enough since the person could be neutral through the entire story and not take sides in the racial wars but there is a lot of sexism or nasty things in these games and most of the time none of the sides are worth saving. Thankfully in Witcher 1 we didn't have to.

Witcher 2 I could never enjoy because Geralt mostly seemed to pretend to be neutral as an excuse when speaking to the kings who wanted his service, other times he had no problem picking one side over the other. Personally I prefer Bioware's approach of making everything politically correct so to speak. If there can be dragons there can certainly also be people who are nice to each other.

 

When it comes to DARK fantasy, I like there being plenty of unpleasent flawed people, but I like it when you can see that despite this I also want to see good and nice people. for the world isn't just filled with pricks, or angels, but both. I like to see that the world is worth saving despite all the jerks, and pricks and unpleasentness that you see and deal with. Of course I am also a big fan of the knight in sour armor trope. in dark fantasy games and stories, I want grey vs grey, and  where both sides are filled with both pricks and good people.

 

just my 2 cents

[Sasie]

When it comes to DARK fantasy, I like there being plenty of unpleasent flawed people, but I like it when you can see that despite this I also want to see good and nice people. for the world isn't just filled with pricks, or angels, but both. I like to see that the world is worth saving despite all the jerks, and pricks and unpleasentness that you see and deal with. Of course I am also a big fan of the knight in sour armor trope. in dark fantasy games and stories, I want grey vs grey, and  where both sides are filled with both pricks and good people.

 

just my 2 cents

I don't mind that. Honestly I might been overly harsh but most of my problems with the Witcher is that I dislike Geralt as a character beyond that the setting... sort of works. Grey vs grey can be great as you say. I do think Witcher 1 for example handled it quite well (if the card collections are ignored). The problem with dark fantasy is when the player is forced to fight for the unpleasant, flawed people and can't walk away. I think that's where Witcher 2 failed for me since they removed the third, neutral path.

The Witcher lost my attention when it became more about finding Triss/assassin then being a Witcher and just staying out of politics. I still prefer universes like Mass effect and Dragon Age though and don't want to see either turn into Game of Thrones. There is room for both styles after all.

[Cyonan]

 

Well it's a nice way to emulate passing of time without making the player sit there and wait. Not saying it's perfect but I prefer it to "come back in two hours" myself.

 

I think that doing a fade to black to imply the passage of time would work better, otherwise you just have this weird system where you have a timer and then a button that doesn't do anything but skip the timer.

[Merlik]

Witcher 2 I could never enjoy because Geralt mostly seemed to pretend to be neutral as an excuse when speaking to the kings who wanted his service, other times he had no problem picking one side over the other. Personally I prefer Bioware's approach of making everything politically correct so to speak. If there can be dragons there can certainly also be people who are nice to each other.

 

The problem in this is that it just isn't believable. The Witcher world is more believable than the Dragon Age one.

[Ascendra]

I don't mind that. Honestly I might been overly harsh but most of my problems with the Witcher is that I dislike Geralt as a character beyond that the setting... sort of works. Grey vs grey can be great as you say. I do think Witcher 1 for example handled it quite well (if the card collections are ignored). The problem with dark fantasy is when the player is forced to fight for the unpleasant, flawed people and can't walk away. I think that's where Witcher 2 failed for me since they removed the third, neutral path.

The Witcher lost my attention when it became more about finding Triss/assassin then being a Witcher and just staying out of politics. I still prefer universes like Mass effect and Dragon Age though and don't want to see either turn into Game of Thrones. There is room for both styles after all.

 

Well, I'm a girl and I loved that part of Witcher (hell, I thought the cards were fun). The world did feel more believable to me. DA is sometimes way too roses and bunnies, doesn't mean I don't appreciate it, but I didn't get the dark undertone that the world was about to end in Inquisition, there was no sense of doom or urgency.

In Witcher everything is bad and everyone is nasty, people are ugly selfish pricks, but at lest if you did even a small good thing the emotional impact was bigger from it because everything around is so messed up. And isn't that what books are about? Geralt hates politics but gets dragged into them unintentionally all the time?

Anyway, purely my opinion and I did not come here to argue for the witcher. But just like in rl we cant save everyone and sometimes there is no neutral path, you have to chose between bad and very bad.

 

DA is great as it is. But I do agree with some OP's points, maybe if Inquisition had a bit more harshness towards the player it would have been better for it. Maybe next game?

[dailyminerals]

I agree with the OP. There needs to be an RPG series that embraces a darker, less forgiving tone. In Dragon Age for instance, think about how much death, blood, and slaughter the characters see in any given day, only to maintain the same, almost innocuous personalities and cute quirks written to endear them to the player. I would like to see a game that honestly embraces the harsh reality of the game world it purports to offer.

[Natureguy85]

I don't mind that. Honestly I might been overly harsh but most of my problems with the Witcher is that I dislike Geralt as a character beyond that the setting... sort of works. Grey vs grey can be great as you say. I do think Witcher 1 for example handled it quite well (if the card collections are ignored). The problem with dark fantasy is when the player is forced to fight for the unpleasant, flawed people and can't walk away. I think that's where Witcher 2 failed for me since they removed the third, neutral path.

The Witcher lost my attention when it became more about finding Triss/assassin then being a Witcher and just staying out of politics. I still prefer universes like Mass effect and Dragon Age though and don't want to see either turn into Game of Thrones. There is room for both styles after all.

 

In the Witcher 2, why didn't you like the part about finding Triss and the assassins? The latter was to clear your name, not to avenge Foltest.  Those aspects of the plot are the same as hunting down the guys who attacked the Witcher fortress in the first game. Choosing sides and playing politics is a means to an end for Geralt. Also think of Geralt as like Duncan in Origins. Duncan realizes the significance of the Warden's only recently being allowed back in Ferelden and is very diplomatic, despite the high regard Cailan has for the Order. Likewise, the Witcher's know that they are barely tolerated by normal society, so they can't burn bridges.

 

Witcher 1 was what DA2 tried to be. Hawke was doing his own thing, much like Geralt, while the Templars and Mages events happened around him. In The Witcher, a central villain in that conflict didn't arise until the very end. In DA2, both leaders go bad at the very end, ruining all sympathy they had built previously. It would have been interesting to have exposed a 3rd party who had been stoking the conflict, forcing mage and templar to work together with Hawke as the glue holding them from splitting apart. This would have also given actual significance to you being the Chamption of Kirwall rather than each side wanting you on their team just because.

[Vox Draco]

King´s Landing would be even duller with them. They had won, and unlike the current idiot they would have kept opposition in check. Also, the privy death I didn´t see coming, while the one in the first book I saw from very early on and the Red Weding the moment Frey´s accepted to renew the alliance. We just didn´t need 600 pages to see Cersei make everything her betters had done fall to ruin, we already knew she wasn´t very brilliant. But it´s a problem after ASoS, things take too long to happen. Books 4 & 5 read very much like Wheel of Time after Jordan lost control of the story, too much writing for what actually happens.

 

Game wise, I´d say BW is just playing it safe. Nothing that can upset a more casual player, nothing that can thrill people who look for more. At least for those of us who aren´t graphic ****** the indies are getting the interesting games out.

 

Yeah, Wheel of Time ... that one started SO damn good and then ... all people got highly unpleasant (or insane, or both), the plot kept going nowhere, and I started to care less and less .. is it finished by now? Another author took over, right...

 

And I'd love for bioware to play it even safer in some regards. I LOVE the cliche to some degree. I hope DA4 will be very much the classical "farmerboy/girl becoming hero and saves the day" again. Because really, when everyone tries to be edgy and dark and unusual...the good old cliches have far more potential to stay out as unusual.