165 réponses à ce sujet

[naddaya]

Can we talk more about how hot loghain got, i mean wow

He looks like my father in da:i. Creepy

[fizzypop]

He looks like my father in da:i. Creepy

Wow we are really getting kinky here

[veeia]

sorry 2 say, but ur dad is hot  

[AEve1]

What exactly is morally grey about him? He risked the total destruction of his own country, he knowingly let his king and thousands of men die, he knowingly allowed Howe to torture. he knowingly allowed the elves in the alienage to be enslaved, he poisoned Arl Eamon, and did alot of other evil acts simply because he didn't like the Orlesions. That's not morally grey. That's chaotic evil.

Okay, I'll bite. If you get him as a companion towards the end of the game, you learn a lot more about him that makes it easier to understand his history. I think there are a few conversations with Wynne that are particularly telling.

Spoiler

 

• Loghain: You can stop scowling at me, madam.
• Wynne: Did I need your permission? I see.
• Loghain: Fine. I confess: It was entirely my idea that Uldred consort with demons. I had a dastardly scheme in which the utter destruction of Ferelden's best weapon would benefit me, personally.
• Loghain: Are you satisfied now?
• Wynne: Do you think your deal with Uldred was where you earned my contempt? I was at Ostagar. I witnessed Cailan's murder.
• Loghain: Such loyalty.
• Wynne: What is that supposed to mean?
• Loghain: Did you try to save him, then? My apologies.
• Wynne: I was fortunate to escape with my life!
• Loghain: So you didn't rush to your king's rescue? I see. Then both of us left the boy to die.
• Wynne: I was no general at the head of an army! I could never have reached him!
• Loghain: And I had no magic that could break those darkspawn ranks. But perhaps you think I ought to have tried, regardless. No doubt, the lives of mere soldiers are cheap in the eyes of the Circle.
• Wynne: And what of all the soldiers who died with their king? Their lives were worth nothing to you.
• Loghain: You think so, do you? I knew their names, mage, and where they came from. I knew their families.
• Loghain: I do not know how you mages determine the value of things, but they were my men. I know exactly how much I lost that day.

 

I'm not going to claim Loghain is lawful good, but he's not chaotic evil either. He does terrible things, but thinks he's doing them because he has to, because no one else is willing to make the tough choices. He isn't willing to do anything, though.

 

Spoiler

• Shale: It could have won its battle. It knows this, surely?
• Loghain: I am to be subjected to the golem's ruminations, now? Charming.
• Shale: It said that it did what it had to do in order to protect its nation, but that is not true, is it?
• Loghain: I have no idea what you're talking about, golem.
• Shale: It could have slain the woman, Anora. Then it would have been made king long before any challenge could have been made.
• Loghain: You are speaking of my daughter, if you are not aware.
• Shale: I am aware. It said, however, that it would do anything that it had to. But this was not true.
• Loghain: I was unwilling to kill my own daughter. Yes, that is true. You think me weak for it?
• Shale: I am uncertain. Had it known then what it knows now, would its decision have been different?
• Loghain: (Sigh) No. No, I would not have killed her. Even had I known.
• Shale: Then... I am content.

 

I thought he was an interesting companion, and sympathetic in his way. And if some people think he's hot, I'm not about to condemn them for it. After all, I like Isabela, and she's hardly a shining beacon of nobility and self-sacrifice.

[Spirited Treasure]

Nice try, but women tend to overlook physical appearance in favor of personality much more than men do. Just look at Mass Effect, how many people do you think actually considered Garrus and Thane hot?

Raises hand and grins , I romanced Garrus.

[Nefla]

Raises hand and grins , I romanced Garrus.

Same here, I think he was the most popular LI for women and he looks like a dinosaur lol.

[Shahadem]

Okay, I'll bite. If you get him as a companion towards the end of the game, you learn a lot more about him that makes it easier to understand his history. I think there are a few conversations with Wynne that are particularly telling.

Spoiler

 

• Loghain: You can stop scowling at me, madam.
• Wynne: Did I need your permission? I see.
• Loghain: Fine. I confess: It was entirely my idea that Uldred consort with demons. I had a dastardly scheme in which the utter destruction of Ferelden's best weapon would benefit me, personally.
• Loghain: Are you satisfied now?
• Wynne: Do you think your deal with Uldred was where you earned my contempt? I was at Ostagar. I witnessed Cailan's murder.
• Loghain: Such loyalty.
• Wynne: What is that supposed to mean?
• Loghain: Did you try to save him, then? My apologies.
• Wynne: I was fortunate to escape with my life!
• Loghain: So you didn't rush to your king's rescue? I see. Then both of us left the boy to die.
• Wynne: I was no general at the head of an army! I could never have reached him!
• Loghain: And I had no magic that could break those darkspawn ranks. But perhaps you think I ought to have tried, regardless. No doubt, the lives of mere soldiers are cheap in the eyes of the Circle.
• Wynne: And what of all the soldiers who died with their king? Their lives were worth nothing to you.
• Loghain: You think so, do you? I knew their names, mage, and where they came from. I knew their families.
• Loghain: I do not know how you mages determine the value of things, but they were my men. I know exactly how much I lost that day.

 

I'm not going to claim Loghain is lawful good, but he's not chaotic evil either. He does terrible things, but thinks he's doing them because he has to, because no one else is willing to make the tough choices. He isn't willing to do anything, though.

 

Spoiler

• Shale: It could have won its battle. It knows this, surely?
• Loghain: I am to be subjected to the golem's ruminations, now? Charming.
• Shale: It said that it did what it had to do in order to protect its nation, but that is not true, is it?
• Loghain: I have no idea what you're talking about, golem.
• Shale: It could have slain the woman, Anora. Then it would have been made king long before any challenge could have been made.
• Loghain: You are speaking of my daughter, if you are not aware.
• Shale: I am aware. It said, however, that it would do anything that it had to. But this was not true.
• Loghain: I was unwilling to kill my own daughter. Yes, that is true. You think me weak for it?
• Shale: I am uncertain. Had it known then what it knows now, would its decision have been different?
• Loghain: (Sigh) No. No, I would not have killed her. Even had I known.
• Shale: Then... I am content.

 

I thought he was an interesting companion, and sympathetic in his way. And if some people think he's hot, I'm not about to condemn them for it. After all, I like Isabela, and she's hardly a shining beacon of nobility and self-sacrifice.

 

Those quotes feel more like lies considering we know what actually happened. He knowingly abandoned his men when Cailan wouldn't have been killed had he remained behind. His whole "if I didn't they would have died anyways" argument is pure fiction. He knew that if he committed the men they would have achieved a victory. ANd the only reason why they attacked at that period of time was because Loghain refused to allow Cailan to wait for reinforcments from Orlais. So even if what he said was true, the only reason why it was true is because he setup that very situation by refusing to wait for reinforcements knowing all the time that in so doing the army would be severely disadvantaged. So he knowingly sacrificed those soldiers to his own ambition no matter what the outcome was. Thus his actions were evil.

 

Secondly, he was complicit in actions that were all clearly evil. And he knew very well that letting his daughter stay locked up in Howe's estate was putting her at a great risk of severe bodily injury or death. He is nothing but a lying, deceitful, evil scum.

 

Thirdly, simply making hard decisions doesn't suddenly make you morally grey or a good leader. Loghain willfully chose the evil option to further his own ambition instead of choosing those evil options because they were required for the greater good. He was evil even if he was no longer able to recognize why his actions were evil, maybe because he wasn't able to realize it. There is also some argument to be made that choosing the evil option is always wrong even when its chosen for the greater good, however wasn't actually choosing the evil option for the greater good so that is a moot point.

[Madrict]

Can we all just take a minute to remember how damn hot Jacob in ME2 is? That is what is important here

[Grieving Natashina]

Can we all just take a minute to remember how damn hot Jacob in ME2 is? That is what is important here

He was hot, but I could never romance him.  He has the same name as one of my brothers. 

[Ieldra]

Can we all just take a minute to remember how damn hot Jacob in ME2 is? That is what is important here

You mean Jacob "Heavy Risk" Taylor, really?

 

All right, you have Jacob, I'll have Loghain...

[Ieldra]

When it comes to banging, people on this board are never satisfied.

You mean just like in RL? How surprising...

[jsachun]

Sounds like you fem protagonists are deceiving your selves (or reassuring yourself) that romancing them would be enjoyable, because of their personality. How do you know the experience will be enjoyable if you haven't experienced it yet.

[Zwingtanz]

He was hot, but I could never romance him.  He has the same name as one of my brothers. 

Of course you couldn't. ME2 has Garrus.

[MrMrPendragon]

Hot men and hot women so everyone can be happy.
 

Problem solved.

 

Although we're still going to have those "_____ is such a cliche of a character" threads, but screw them. Having good looking companions with great personalities is all that matters.

[o Ventus]

Nice try, but women tend to overlook physical appearance in favor of personality much more than men do. Just look at Mass Effect, how many people do you think actually considered Garrus and Thane hot?

Could say the same for Tali and male Shepard, considering you never actually see her face during the romance arc. The Getty stock photo doesn't count.