351 réponses à ce sujet

[MoonDrummer]

I used to like them more, but I think they got attacked for good reason. And complaining about losing a war for hundreds of years is silly. Losing sucks, but come on.

Ever been to Ireland?

[Willowhugger]

Seriously, people complain about losing wars lost centuries ago EVERYWHERE.

 

Except America, Australia, and Canada.

Because they're baby nations.

[Chari]

I blame the author for TME elves. He wanted to present them as douches and so he did. Tis was one of the weak points of novels along woth Celene being pretty terrible at the Game despite all the canon lore calling her brilliant
This new kick-out-mages also contradicts the previously established lore. Bioware do love retcons after all
As for them being wrong about some parts of history and unfriendly... so what? Do you know every bit of your culture's past? Of course no. That'd be impossible. Centuries of wars, enslavement, lack of proper written sources does that to cultures. Heck, not even wealthy and well-doing nations know everything. That is normal, not a sin. Ask any historician
Plus they live in a world which hates them. It's only logical to hate it back. Being aware of dangers and being cautious is a proper attitude for anyone

[MoonDrummer]

Seriously, people complain about losing wars lost centuries ago EVERYWHERE.

Except America, Australia, and Canada.
Because they're baby nations.

America just says it won the wars it lost.

[TheJediSaint]

After what I learned in DAI, this is how I feel about the Dalish.

 

 

That was good to get off my chest.

[Willowhugger]

I blame the author for TME elves. He wanted to present them as douches and so he did. Tis was one of the weak points of novels along woth Celene being pretty terrible at the Game despite all the canon lore calling her brilliant
This new kick-out-mages also contradicts the previously established lore. Bioware do love retcons after all
As for them being wrong about some parts of history and unfriendly... so what? Do you know every bit of your culture's past? Of course no. That'd be impossible. Centuries of wars, enslavement, lack of proper written sources does that to cultures. Heck, not even wealthy and well-doing nations know everything. That is normal, not a sin. Ask any historician
Plus they live in a world which hates them. It's only logical to hate it back. Being aware of dangers and being cautious is a proper attitude for anyone

 

I didn't think that was a weakness. The Dalish have repeatedly been driven home as being bigoted, prejudiced, and resentful of not only humans but City Elves as well as those elves who try to assimilate.

Yet every time we encounter the Dalish in-game, they're pretty damn friendly.

 

"Hey Inquisitor/Warden/Hawke."

 

It's nice to meet a clan who actually live up to, "We pepper humans with arrows because we hates them."

[ArvinDulku]

 

I blame the author for TME elves. He wanted to present them as douches and so he did. Tis was one of the weak points of novels along woth Celene being pretty terrible at the Game despite all the canon lore calling her brilliant

...Seriously, you people are ridicoulous. Is it so impossible to stop coddling the d-bags and simply accept, maybe, just maybe they are in fact douches? But no, that can't happen innit? Bloody hell.
 

This new kick-out-mages also contradicts the previously established lore. Bioware do love retcons after all
As for them being wrong about some parts of history and unfriendly... so what? Do you know every bit of your culture's past? Of course no. That'd be impossible. Centuries of wars, enslavement, lack of proper written sources does that to cultures. Heck, not even wealthy and well-doing nations know everything. That is normal, not a sin. Ask any historician

No, it is no retcon. Unless you can provide previous, exact, proven lore (which means no 3rd person narative, but actual documentation in writing or a first person account that says elves keep all the mages they have it isn't a retcon at all.
 

Plus they live in a world which hates them. It's only logical to hate it back. Being aware of dangers and being cautious is a proper attitude for anyone

They live in a world that hates them for a reason. They are the people that isolated themselves, then sparked a 10 ten year war via an act of utter stupidty and then spends the next few hundred years roaming the countryside with a chip on their shoulder. Hell, some clans killed human for no reason at all.

And yes, the are in fact codexes of Elves attacking trade caravans for supplies and killing people.

Seriously, like them if you must, but the level of...you know what, forget it.

[Willowhugger]

They live in a world that hates them for a reason. They are the people isolated themselves, sparked a 10 ten year war via an act of utter stupidty and then spends the next few hundred years roaming the countryside with a chip on their shoulders. Hell, some clans killed human for no reason at all.

And yes, the are in fact codexed of Elves attacking trade caravans for supplies and killing people.

Seriously, like them if you must, but the level of...you know what, forget it.

 

 

 

Okay, seriously, that's just ludicrous.

 

It doesn't matter who started the war.

What matters is the elves were put into diaspora, forcibly converted, and scattered across the world. It's a titanically evil thing that happened to them.

 

They also aren't allowed to settle anywhere because they'll be chased off by humans. The idea the Dalish are somehow MORE racist than humans or at fault for their treatment is silly. Yeah, they're flawed people and kind of obnoxiously smug about their elfdom but that's not worth condemning their entire culture.

[ArvinDulku]

After what I learned in DAI, this is how I feel about the Dalish.
 

 
That was good to get off my chest.

 

[Willowhugger]

I don't know if those are author retcons.. or just things they've been waiting to reveal about the lore in general. I'll say this though: the addition of Patrick Weekes (TME author/DAI writer) has shaken things I had specific views about before. The Dalish have become a joke, and Qunari are more loose and openminded than I thought.

 

On my end, I actually have bigger respect for the Dalish now.

Before, I just thought they were generic wood elves.

 

I like what they did with the Qunari, though.

 

Sten hinted a lot of what they said was cultural posturing anyway.

What did you find out was different?

[ArvinDulku]

Okay, seriously, that's just ludicrous.

 

It doesn't matter who started the war.

What matters is the elves were put into diaspora, forcibly converted, and scattered across the world. It's a titanically evil thing that happened to them.

 

They also aren't allowed to settle anywhere because they'll be chased off by humans. The idea the Dalish are somehow MORE racist than humans or at fault for their treatment is silly. Yeah, they're flawed people and kind of obnoxiously smug about their elfdom but that's not worth condemning their entire culture.

 

Of course they are more racist, I am not even sure how that is debateble.

 

Hell, some clans **** on their own kind for having the audacity of embracing human culture.

 

And no, the city elves suffered. The city elves continue to suffer. They have my complete and utter sympathy. Only they fit anything you just said in regards to their diaspora.

 

The Dalish? They can suck it.

[Willowhugger]

They were never generic wood elves to me... 

 

NOW they are. That's the only redeeming factor about them anymore. The only thing they can build upon, for me to care.

 

I disagree. The Dalish's tragedy is more emphasized now. Before, the Dalish were trying to hang onto traditions they barely understood but now, it's been emphasized they've FAILED. The original culture of the elves is lost and they're trying to put together a broken vase without realizing that most of the pieces are missing.

 

They've also created something unique to themselves.

 

I like them a great deal more.

What do you dislike about them that you liked before?

[Willowhugger]

Of course they are more racist, I am not even sure how that is debateble.

 

Hell, some clans **** on their own kind for having the audacity of embracing human culture.

 

And no, the city elves suffered. The city elves continue to suffer. They have my complete and utter sympathy. Only they fit anything you just said in regards to their diaspora.

 

The Dalish? They can suck it.

 

Well, when King Alistair gives the Dalish the Hinterlands, the Fereldans drive out the Dalish.

 

So, I don't think the humans have a leg to stand on.

 

The Dalish know humans hate them so they hate them right back.

 

Simple.

 

Edit:
 

I'd also like to remind you, we've met four Dalish clans (five if you count Felicia Day's fanfic as canon). Of those four, three of them are perfectly nice to Shemlen if they mind their manners.

 

Which is a far cry from what you're describing.

[Chari]

I didn't think that was a weakness. The Dalish have repeatedly been driven home as being bigoted, prejudiced, and resentful of not only humans but City Elves as well as those elves who try to assimilate.

Yet every time we encounter the Dalish in-game, they're pretty damn friendly.

"Hey Inquisitor/Warden/Hawke."

It's nice to meet a clan who actually live up to, "We pepper humans with arrows because we hates them."

Accordimg to DAO lore there are three kinds of dalish clans. Friendly, neutral and hostile
The book author tried really hard to show them being evil and didn't show any redemption qualities. As if he personally hates them or sth. The book reeked of prejudice against the dalish. Shame since prior to that it was really good

[Willowhugger]

Accordimg to DAO lore there are three kinds of dalish clans. Friendly, neutral and hostile
The book author tried really hard to show them being evil and didn't show any redemption qualities. As if he personally hates them or sth. The book reeked of prejudice against the dalish. Shame since prior to that it was really good

 

I didn't think so at all.

What the author did do, however, was show it through Briala's disillusioning perspective.

 

She idolized the Dalish but failed to realize they were just people like her with their own prejudices.

It's kind of like Anders and Tevinter.

 

Which, now that I think about it, goes to show why he was always destined to go nuts.

[Chari]

I didn't think so at all.
What the author did do, however, was show it through Briala's disillusioning perspective.

She idolized the Dalish but failed to realize they were just people like her with their own prejudices.
It's kind of like Anders and Tevinter.

Which, now that I think about it, goes to show why he was always destined to go nuts.

I hope you are right. I want to believe the authors don't hate them

[ArvinDulku]

Well, when King Alistair gives the Dalish the Hinterlands, the Fereldans drive out the Dalish.

 

So, I don't think the humans have a leg to stand on.

 

The Dalish know humans hate them so they hate them right back.

 

Simple.

 

Edit:
 

I'd also like to remind you, we've met four Dalish clans (five if you count Felicia Day's fanfic as canon). Of those four, three of them are perfectly nice to Shemlen if they mind their manners.

 

Which is a far cry from what you're describing.

 

Oh please, every clan you meet more or less immediately threathens you with bodily harm.

 

Every single time.

 

Even the Dalish origins straight up gives a you an option to flat out murder unarmed humans, just like that, which logically suggest it is more or less accepted.

 

That point was me immediately qutting that run and running another human noble origin.

 

I loved the City Elf origin and how immideatly it made me care, the Dalish one alienated me right there at the beginning.

[MoonDrummer]

It's funny how everyone who hates the dalish holds a massive grudge - just like the dalish.

[Chari]

It's funny how everyone who hates the dalish holds a massive grudge - just like the dalish.

They are like sisters Petrice of the real life

[Chari]

Actually, Sister Petrice seemed cool with the Dalish. And elves in general.

She used that mad elf to attack the Qunari. For the sake of her people.

I mean they act bigoted, mean-spirited, illogical and angry towards a specific race