351 réponses à ce sujet

[Willowhugger]

I think what bugs me about the representation of Dalish more than their attitudes (from some clans at least) is that Dalish seem to be very... backwards. In lack of a proper word (feel free to help me out here) - what I mean, they're never really shown as innovative, neither in magical areas nor in worldy affairs (except for the Lavellan clan sending the inquisitor to watch the Conclave), they don't seem to have any technical, architectural or other sort of expertise like e.g. the dwarves nor do they seem to have proper training or education as the Qunari have (talking about the system in place here, not the whole following the Qun business). All I feel that I know about the Dalish is that they have hunters and keepers and maximum three mages. 

 

I wish they had some sort of trait like being excellent traders or herbalists or scholars or... I don't know. 

 

I dunno, there's not much you can really do other than bowmanship and herding and riding when you're nomads.

[MadameQuizzy]

They're excellent archers, and being mages outside of the circle means their mages tend to be more formidable. They're ruthless and the best hunters and trackers out there. They have a lot of admirable traits, one of which is also respect for things they shouldn't meddle in, as well as the natural order of things. They're a wise people. Sometimes.

 

Yes! I didn't mean to say they're not all these things, I only feel that these traits don't get enough attention. Or maybe I've been talking too much to Solas. I don't know >.> The whole glorification of the ancient elves ("oh these ruins! what a sight they must have been!") vs. the whole "please find my halla that ran away" thing is a missed opportunity to shine some light on positive traits of the Dalish. 

 

I'd love to see some more variation of spells and magic in the future, for example.

[herkles]

Here is a question, given the number of revelations that occur in DA: I what do you think might happen next. To me just because I find it more narratively interesting, is for them working towards creating a new elven country, and as we are going north, perhaps they might try and rebuild in the Arlathan Forest. 

[LOLandStuff]

They cling to a past they never understood and got it all backwards just to feel sorry about themselves. No wonder they can't move forward.

 

They should just move on. If your past glory got curbstomped twice, third time's highly a charm.

[Chari]

Here is a question, given the number of revelations that occur in DA: I what do you think might happen next. To me just because I find it more narratively interesting, is for them working towards creating a new elven country, and as we are going north, perhaps they might try and rebuild in the Arlathan Forest. 

That'd mean war to be frank. And I doubt the elves have any means to survive this time

Unless they get help from... let's say... Gods?

[Colonelkillabee]

Yes! I didn't mean to say they're not all these things, I only feel that these traits don't get enough attention. Or maybe I've been talking too much to Solas. I don't know >.> The whole glorification of the ancient elves ("oh these ruins! what a sight they must have been!") vs. the whole "please find my halla that ran away" thing is a missed opportunity to shine some light on positive traits of the Dalish. 

 

I'd love to see some more variation of spells and magic in the future, for example.

Lol they do seem rather helpless and kind of lame in DA I. Seriously, you're the hunter gatherers. Get your own ****** herbs.

 

But it's probably a fair tradeoff for elf fans I guess, since Dalish culture is what it is, but ancient elven can still be expanded on. I'd be worried though that the elves are getting all this attention. When Bioware gives someone attention, bad things happen to them.

[LOLandStuff]

That'd mean war to be frank. And I doubt the elves have any means to survive this time

Unless they get help from... let's say... Gods?

 

I think they're better off roaming the woods than slaving for some capricious gods.

[herkles]

That'd mean war to be frank. And I doubt the elves have any means to survive this time

Unless they get help from... let's say... Gods?

well solas is up to something

 

Lol they do seem rather helpless and kind of lame in DA I. Seriously, you're the hunter gatherers. Get your own ****** herbs.

 

But it's probably a fair tradeoff for elf fans I guess, since Dalish culture is what it is, but ancient elven can still be expanded on. I'd be worried though that the elves are getting all this attention. When Bioware gives someone attention, bad things happen to them.

I want to see an elven kingdom/country arrise mostly for all the stuff that the elves now have to do. City elves and dalish would have to get along, this new kingdom would have to deal with internal and external politics. It creates interesting story telling IMO

[Chari]

I think they're better off roaming the woods than slaving for some capricious gods.

As if Gods can be anything but capricious

Past is important. Good or bad, it's what made the present the way it is. Clinging to traditions only is foolish, but so is throwing it away like some trash. Remember it, learn from it but don't let is bind you

[Colonelkillabee]

well solas is up to something

 

I want to see an elven kingdom/country arrise mostly for all the stuff that the elves now have to do. City elves and dalish would have to get along, this new kingdom would have to deal with internal and external politics. It creates interesting story telling IMO

It would be, but I bet the humans would screw with it. For this to happen, human nations would need to be in extreme disarray first.

 

Then there's also the challenge of Dalish getting along with themselves, let alone city elves. Their clans are separate and numerous.

[LOLandStuff]

As if Gods can be anything but capricious

Past is important. Good or bad, it's what made the present the way it is. Clinging to traditions only is foolish, but so is throwing it away like some trash. Remember it, learn from it but don't let is bind you

That's the problem with the Dalish. I'm not against them foraging and hoarding whatever they find of their past, but they should make their future better because of it and not live in the past.

 

As for Solas, there's something very off about him.

Anyone noticed how he keeps mentioning the inquisitor's spirit? What's that all about?

[Chari]

That's the problem with the Dalish. I'm not against them foraging and hoarding whatever they find of their past, but they should make their future better because of it and not live in the past.

 

As for Solas, there's something very off about him.

Anyone noticed how he keeps mentioning the inquisitor's spirit? What's that all about?

They do not live in the past but they long to save those little bits of lore they can 

That is not living in the past, that is saving it

Without past there is no present and there will be no future

[Tielis]

My personal opinion is that this thread is elf hate clickbait.

[LOLandStuff]

Correction. They want to live in the past.

[Chari]

Correction. They want to live in the past.

They want to remember the past and restore lore which still can be saved

Nothing wrong about dreaming of an Utopiah. Every culture has an idea of an Utopiah, be it some afterlife or an age of glory. Nothing shameful, nothing bad, nothing wrong

[Colonelkillabee]

Without past there is no present and there will be no future

Cute line but not true really. Life goes on, no matter what you do or don't remember.

 

I do think they live in the past as a symptom of trying to always remember and preserve culture. Nothing against preservation at all, but you're going to be bitter when remembering that this is even necessary in the first place. That bitterness is a part of who they are. People who deny that must not come from cultures that try to remember who they are in real life, or struggle with uncomfortable past history.

[Addai]

I find Solas' attitude INFURIATING. Yes the Dalish are wrong about so much, so instead of feeling superior, write a book or something about what YOU DO KNOW and set them straight! Yes they'll be resistant and cop an attitude, but who wouldn't when told that everything you thought you knew about your culture was wrong wrong wrong? If I insisted that the woman I mentioned above in my hypothetical to look in a mirror before she is ready, can I blame her if she smashed the mirror and spit on me for being cruel? The cognitive dissonance is enormous so let them rant and lash out a bit. It'd be like a six-year-old who hates going to school. Are you going to be like oh well it's his fault he has a bad attitude towards learning I guess I'll just let him stay illiterate?

He does say that he tried to go to them in order to share knowledge, and the Dalish he encountered called him flat-ear and drove him off. So he kind of writes them off as a lost cause, unless he encounters a Lavellan Inquisitor who makes him reconsider.

 

Example, this exchange.

Spoiler

 

 

 

I think what bugs me about the representation of Dalish more than their attitudes (from some clans at least) is that Dalish seem to be very... backwards. In lack of a proper word (feel free to help me out here) - what I mean, they're never really shown as innovative, neither in magical areas nor in worldy affairs (except for the Lavellan clan sending the inquisitor to watch the Conclave), they don't seem to have any technical, architectural or other sort of expertise like e.g. the dwarves nor do they seem to have proper training or education as the Qunari have (talking about the system in place here, not the whole following the Qun business). All I feel that I know about the Dalish is that they have hunters and keepers and maximum three mages. 

 

I wish they had some sort of trait like being excellent traders or herbalists or scholars or... I don't know. 

They're craftsmen, in particular woodworking, like the ironbark quest you can do in Origins. You can't build up culture or education without stable institutions, however. Until they can get a stable homeland, they're probably going to continue the downwards slide. I hope we do see a New Arlathan emerge.

 

I never liked the Dalish. I didn't kill any of the clans I met, that being said, I won't shed any tears if they meet their demise at someone else hands. The only elves I feel any sympathy for are the city elves. They at least try to live their lives the best they can and move foward, rather then the dalish who do nothing but keep staring backwards.

I don't get this attitude. I mean, I sympathize with the city elves, but their situation is also pathetic in the worst sense of that word. They accept being forced into ghettoes and becoming the victims of pogroms every time a human ruler needs to solve a poltiical problem of their own. They aren't moving anywhere but down, either. Say what you want about the Dalish, but "we will never submit" is still an admirable trait. I guess you have to prefer freedom over death to accept that.

[herkles]

It would be, but I bet the humans would screw with it. For this to happen, human nations would need to be in extreme disarray first.

 

Then there's also the challenge of Dalish getting along with themselves, let alone city elves. Their clans are separate and numerous.

that is why for a narrative point, this is great. You have city elves, and then dalish and none of them are united. Plus you have what ever humans were living in Arlathan in the first place.  You have so many different people and they are trying to work together in creating a new kingdom, maybe on the past but a new kingdom. This creates more interesting stories IMO.

 

As for humans screwing with it, of course they would, and as for human nations being in a dissary, that is to be expected, every Dragon age game had a civil war or the human state in dissarry. From the Fereldan civil war, to the whole crap that is Kirkwall, to the Orlaisian civil war. Then you got the upcoming Nevarran civil war, the grey-warden civil war, the Qunari and Tevinter gearing up for another battle and who knows what internal crisis might happen in Tevinter.

 

Safe to say something will happen to throw them into dissary

[Chari]

Cute line but not true really. Life goes on, no matter what you do or don't remember.

 

I do think they live in the past as a symptom of trying to always remember and preserve culture. Nothing against preservation at all, but you're going to be bitter when remembering that this is even necessary in the first place. That bitterness is a part of who they are. People who deny that must not come from cultures that try to remember who they are in real life, or struggle with uncomfortable past history.

Easy is not always right. Forgetting is easy, preservation is hard. Sometimes the difficult path is a right one. Maybe it leads to one's demise but also to glory, pride, good, kindness, lesson, redemption etc. These are important

 

Considering how little history is left being clingy is the only way to save it since they don't even have written sources. Oral traditions are so flexible it is very easy to make mistakes. That's how it happens in real life

Bitterness is good when it is justified. And it is justified in their case. It's only natural. 

Yeah, well... I come from slavic and nenets cultures. So eh, don't tell me how I feel about them

[AresKeith]

DAI relevations in regards to the Elves in general, my overall reaction =



It was glorious.

My reaction too and I don't even hate all of the Dalish

[Dabrikishaw]

 

 

I don't get this attitude. I mean, I sympathize with the city elves, but their situation is also pathetic in the worst sense of that word. They accept being forced into ghettoes and becoming the victims of pogroms every time a human ruler needs to solve a poltiical problem of their own. They aren't moving anywhere but down, either. Say what you want about the Dalish, but "we will never submit" is still an admirable trait. I guess you have to prefer freedom over death to accept that.

The City Elves don't become bandits that kill humans out of racism or superiority.

[Chari]

The City Elves don't become bandits that kill humans out of racism or superiority.

City elves become bandits who kill humans and elves (liike Mahariel's parents) out of spite or greed

[Colonelkillabee]

Easy is not always right. Forgetting is easy, preservation is hard. Sometimes the difficult path is a right one. Maybe it leads to one's demise but also to glory, pride, good, kindness, lesson, redemption etc. These are important

 

Considering how little history is left being clingy is the only way to save it since they don't even have written sources. Oral traditions are so flexible it is very easy to make mistakes. That's how it happens in real life

Bitterness is good when it is justified. And it is justified in their case. It's only natural. 

Yeah, well... I come from slavic and nenets cultures. So eh, don't tell me how I feel about them

Never said easy was right, never said I had a problem with their way of life. My only problem with the Dalish is that they generally tend to blame everyone but themselves, and they whine and ****** a lot.

 

Not all of them, before anyone mentions Origins. But most.

[Colonelkillabee]

It's akin to the "White Man" being the source of all evil, which is tiresome to hear.

[Chari]

Never said it was easy, never said I had a problem with their way of life. My only problem with the Dalish is that they generally tend to blame everyone but themselves, and they whine and ****** a lot.

 

Not all of them, before anyone mentions Origins. But most.

Says a person who likes massmurdering them. Yeah... don't talk to me about morally right and wrong attitude

 

Do you like, have actual statistics from Thedas? Cuz I doubt you do