351 réponses à ce sujet

[LOLandStuff]

What I want to know is what the Dalish have to say if they found out what actually happened to Arlathan and their slave markings.

Pretty sure the City Elves wouldn't care.

[Chari]

Fair point. Yes I did play the origin several times. My intention was to explain why fans might prefer the City Elves to the Dalish but I had a misstep. 

 

The point of contention is that the Dalish hold on to their past too much to these fans, often to the point of romanticizing what they don't really understand or aren't very knowledgeable of just because it happens to be a Dalish *something*. This sometimes leads to feelings of bigotry towards City Elves(We are the last of the Elven) and Humans. City Elves are felt as more admirable because they try to live with their current situation to the best, as opposed to how the Dalish act bitter about how much they lost. Yes. City Elves can hate human just as much as the Dalish, but again this is seen as more understandable because the Dalish are perceived aa inviting all negative attitudes to themselves.

This is a wrong assumption since forthe most part the dalish try to ignore and avoid humans. Isolationism is not evil, it's neutral

Me and lots of fans of dalish come from cultures which have been conquered, destroyed, ravaged etc. Hence we understand their desire to save the little they have. Heck, if they weren't so stubborn they would have even less

Yes, it is bitter. but it is really understandable

[dragonflight288]

I think you should cut the Dalish some slack given the reason they're nomadic is people kill them if they stay in one place too long.

Oh and the Orlesians kinda destroyed their homeland.

Sort of like if you were descendants of the United States or Europe living in the Soviet Union-ruled Empire in some twisted alternate universe.

 

And some Orlesian nobles make a sport of it to go hunt Dalish. 

[Addai]

Anybody whose interaction with me is chiefly about using me as some kind of external boogeyman against which they can compare themselves so they can fuel their pet identity construction doesn't sit well with me.  If they aren't willing to interact with me as if I'm a person and not a concept, I'm certainly not going to extend them the same courtesy.  Ironically for the Dalish, their behavior just creates a self-fulfilling prophecy as their treatment of external people usually just makes those people defensive and defensive people usually lump sum their aggressors.  Nice never-ending bigotry circle they are helping to shore up there.

 

I think the Dalish are the most actively bigoted group in Thedas I've encountered so far.  Most people in Thedas just go along with institutionalized bigotry without actively promotely it.  The Dalish consistently and actively *work* through stories and lore to maintain bigotry as a central part of their worldview.  "Us vs. them" is what it means to be Dalish.  It's literally what their entire culture is based on.  

It's an us vs. them which is based on "we just want to be left alone."

[Dabrikishaw]

Dude, I love your name, Dabrikishaw Ferguson Key and Peele are hilarious.

 

edit: Oh wait, that's not one of their made up names, that's an actual Football player, lol.

I actually never knew Dabrikishaw was a real person until a few years ago. I just though it was a name my friends made up in middle school.

[LOLandStuff]

And some Orlesian nobles make a sport of it to go hunt Dalish. 

 

So do the Dalish with humans they find.

 

What was it called? Oh yeah, Fen'Harel's Teeth.

Great sportsmanship there.

[Colonelkillabee]

It's an us vs. them which is based on "we just want to be left alone."

I like the quote my Inquisitor told them about the Halla. If I never get close, then we'll always be strangers. Unfortunately for the Dalish, it's a small world. They're living a pipe dream, but at least they're committed to fighting for it.

[Colonelkillabee]

double post

[Addai]

Fair point. Yes I did play the origin several times. My intention was to explain why fans might prefer the City Elves to the Dalish but I had a misstep. 
 
The point of contention is that the Dalish hold on to their past too much to these fans, often to the point of romanticizing what they don't really understand or aren't very knowledgeable of just because it happens to be a Dalish *something*. This sometimes leads to feelings of bigotry towards City Elves(We are the last of the Elven) and Humans. City Elves are felt as more admirable because they try to live with their current situation to the best, as opposed to how the Dalish act bitter about how much they lost. Yes. City Elves can hate human just as much as the Dalish, but again this is seen as more understandable because the Dalish are perceived aa inviting all negative attitudes to themselves.

I see. Well, I can empathize with city elves who are just trying to get by. However I can also understand the Dalish perspective that they're to be pitied and disdained because they allow themselves to be made so abject. This is reflected even in Oghren's dialogue with Zevran. He can't believe the elves let themselves be kicked around by humans so much. And yes, the Dalish aren't winning many battles since the destruction of the Dales, but they aren't knuckling under, either.

[Chari]

What I want to know is what the Dalish have to say if they found out what actually happened to Arlathan and their slave markings.

Pretty sure the City Elves wouldn't care.

Some would be angry, many would me shocked, some would not care 

Really, what actually happened to the Arlathan and an original meaning of the vallaslin does no invalidate their culture. When it comes to history restoraion and preservation losing bits of information is nautral, inevitable. We in real life have no idea what actually happened in some places just years ago. In elves' case it's been thousands of years. Ask artheologists, historicians - restoring lost history is extremelly difficult and confusing. It always was, it always will be

Are you going to say to slavs, or asian easterners, or native americans that they are wrong just because they have hard time recalling what happened centuries ago? We here in eastern slav countries don't remember our full pantheon and we weren't even conquered by anyone

The past is important, it always is so it's a good thing they can actually learn what it meant. But also is important what the vallaslin means nowadays. It's a symbol of unity, uniqueness, resistance, preservation, culture, family, home, love

[Colonelkillabee]

It's kinda like people saying evolution invalidates christianity. Those people are ****** morons as well.

[Chari]

This is a completely unattainable goal.  The Dalish are part of the world, whether they like it or not. 

I take it you dislike introverts too?

[LOLandStuff]

Some would be angry, many would me shocked, some would not care 

Really, what actually happened to the Arlathan and an original meaning of the vallaslin does no invalidate their culture. When it comes to history restoraion and preservation losing bits of information is nautral, inevitable. We in real life have no idea what actually happened in some places just years ago. In elves' case it's been thousands of years. Ask artheologists, historicians - restoring lost history is extremelly difficult and confusing. It always was, it always will be

Are you going to say to slavs, or asian easterners, or native americans that they are wrong just because they have hard time recalling what happened centuries ago? We here in eastern slav countries don't remember our full pantheon and we weren't even conquered by anyone

The past is important, it always is so it's a good thing they can actually learn what it meant. But also is important what the vallaslin means nowadays. It's a symbol of unity, uniqueness, resistance, preservation, culture, family, home, love

 

The difference between us and the Dalish is curiosity. If it helps us, that's a bonus. We want to know for the sake of it. The Dalish want to live it.

[Hellion Rex]

And some Orlesian nobles make a sport of it to go hunt Dalish. 

Fen'Harel's Teeth....

[Dabrikishaw]

I see. Well, I can empathize with city elves who are just trying to get by. However I can also understand the Dalish perspective that they're to be pitied and disdained because they allow themselves to be made so abject. This is reflected even in Oghren's dialogue with Zevran. He can't believe the elves let themselves be kicked around by humans so much. And yes, the Dalish aren't winning many battles since the destruction of the Dales, but they aren't knuckling under, either.

I can understand the Dalish point of view as well, I just find the culture they want to preserve abhorrent at this point. They have a nasty past, so the best thing I can say for them to do is understand what's recoverable and what isn't and try to grow stronger.

[dragonflight288]

So do the Dalish with humans they find.

 

What was it called? Oh yeah, Fen'Harel's Teeth.

Great sportsmanship there.

 

*shrug* And many don't, on both sides. 

[Colonelkillabee]

I take it you dislike introverts too?

You have a habit of making irrelevant comments that miss the point.

[Hellion Rex]

I have to say that I like how Solas gave us a really good look at what Arlathan must have seemed like, not the pipe-dream that the Dalish are selling.

[dragonflight288]

I can understand the Dalish point of view as well, I just find the culture they want to preserve abhorrent at this point. They have a nasty past, so the best thing I can say for them to do is understand what's recoverable and what isn't and try to grow stronger.

 

Let me ask this, where can the Dalish settle at this point in Thedas and be left alone to build towards a future without being harassed by the humans or the chantry?

[Addai]

This is a completely unattainable goal.  The Dalish are part of the world, whether they like it or not.

They trade with the outside, and have some political dealings such as the Grey Warden treaties. I'm not sure what else you're expecting from a people with no homeland. I guess people here are expecting them to accept whatever terms Andrastian nations offer them, no matter how humiliating- even if it means being subject to disarmament, suppression of their cultural identity and mass murder once or twice a generation.
 

I can understand the Dalish point of view as well, I just find the culture they want to preserve abhorrent at this point. They have a nasty past, so the best thing I can say for them to do is understand what's recoverable and what isn't and try to grow stronger.

They also have a beautiful, noble past. People are exaggerating the new lore information way too much, and again, I find it ironic considering the Andrastian nations are in complete chaos.

[herkles]

They trade with the outside, and have some political dealings such as the Grey Warden treaties. I'm not sure what else you're expecting from a people with no homeland. I guess people here are expecting them to accept whatever terms Andrastian nations offer them, no matter how humiliating and even if it means being subject to disarmament, suppression of their cultural identity and mass murder once or twice a generation.

I kind of think that is exactly what some think they should be doing. 

[Colonelkillabee]

I can understand the Dalish point of view as well, I just find the culture they want to preserve abhorrent at this point. They have a nasty past, so the best thing I can say for them to do is understand what's recoverable and what isn't and try to grow stronger.

Indeed. I respect a stubborn fool on their commitment at best, but I'd respect them more if they remembered what they could, but all the while committing to recover, grow stronger, and become something greater than what they once where. Then go for round two on the humans, if they wish, lol.

 

But preserving the past is useless unless you use it as a foundation to grow stronger.