351 réponses à ce sujet

[Chari]

No, I'm an intense introvert.  The last time I took a Myers-Brigg test I was so strongly I on the INTP part, I might as well be a hermit.  However, the T part of me realizes that most people in the world are extroverts, and I have to live in this world no matter how much the F part might want to live in a book-lined cave in the hills somewhere. 

That's sad. Tragic, even

 

The difference between us and the Dalish is curiosity. If it helps us, that's a bonus. We want to know for the sake of it. The Dalish want to live it.

Curiosity is what makes us thrive. Without it, no species can evolve and survive. And what they have is not curiosity, it's sadness and desire to save what can be saved. It's a noble goal

[Addai]

I kind of think that is exactly what some think they should be doing.

Well, there you go. "You could always just lay down and die" is not much of a concession. And for some people, a humiliating subjection is worse than death.

[Dabrikishaw]

Let me ask this, where can the Dalish settle at this point in Thedas and be left alone to build towards a future without being harassed by the humans or the chantry?

At this point, hoping for a homeland for the Dalish alone isn't what I think is the best course. They need to open up to the idea of living alongside humans if they want to convince the Chantry they mean no harm. They could also stand to help more City Elves, like what the Sabre clan did with Pol, although they don't also need to convert them to the Dalsih faith.

[Colonelkillabee]

Laying down and dying seems to be exactly what they're doing anyway, just more slowly and with more self righteousness. They're not going anywhere fast.

[Sports72Xtrm]

The Dalish's callousness to the City Elves' plight is a bit of a jerk move but before Briala the city elves just passively accepted their role as second class citizens to the humans. They don't get a say in government, they can't attain a title, they have little education. The city Elves looking down on the Dalish for not accepting times have changed, the Dalish not accepting the City elves because they don't try to take back any form of their past glory and don't even aspire to better their social standings, meanwhile humans look down on both of them. Both elves are idiots but one thing is for sure, they both should be focusing on getting some respect from the humans.

[Colonelkillabee]

I don't expect anything of them (other than basic civility).  I'm only pointing out that expecting the rest of the world to be on board with their isolationism is just not going to work. 

 

It's the equivalent of saying people should stop being mean, or children shouldn't have to starve. Well, no ****, but that's not how the world works, and noble ideals tend to be as useful as ****** on a man.

[herkles]

Well, there you go. "You could always just lay down and die" is not much of a concession. And for some people, a humiliating subjection is worse than death.

I am in agreement with you. 

 

 

I also that these anti-dalish believe that Ireland should not have fought for independence so many times despite losing.  Becuase the Irish fought countless rebellions against the english and lost. Yet they still fought and resisted, not always through violance but they did what they could to preserve their culture despite the english. eventually after numerous rebellions they won their independence. 

 

I see more then a bit of the Irish in the Dalish. Including the fact that in the past, both societies owned slaves. Considering that the dalish similar to Gaelic Reconstructioist have to peice together their old religion, with not much evidence. They have been subjacted and suffered. Now the comparisson isn't perfect for the Irish never became nomads. I can still see them in the Dalish. One also must understand that even if they joined with their city elf cousins, they would have to give up their faith, as the human kingdoms are all andrastian and belong to either the imperial chantry or the southern chantry. 

 

I am not saying that either group is perfect, for people are flawed individuals. but one can not just tar a group with a brush and say "they are all stupid, wrong and evil" nor the opposite as well. 

 

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[Colonelkillabee]

The Dalish aren't really fighting though, they're just wandering around getting kicked from place to place.

 

And unlike the Irish, the Dalish aren't really victims of anyone but themselves. Mainly.

[Sports72Xtrm]

The Dalish aren't really fighting though, they're just wandering around getting kicked from place to place.

 

And unlike the Irish, the Dalish aren't really victims of anyone but themselves. Mainly.

they maybe diaspora but at least their life purpose isn't wiping a human's ass and should one of them get threatened, some won't hesitate to retaliate with arrows or magic.

[Addai]

Laying down and dying seems to be exactly what they're doing anyway, just more slowly and with more self righteousness. They're not going anywhere fast.

As Cullen would say, getting to choose your death on your own terms is more than some people get.

 

I do hope Solas' master plan results in a New Arlathan, just as I hope the dwarves are able to reclaim old thaigs and live free on their own, too. I put Bhelen on the throne and side with Branka with just that hope. Obviously the land belongs to whoever can hold it, so I'm not begrudging the humans their victories. They've got problems of their own, though, especially if the Qunari come calling.

[Chernaya]

That's a lot of different people to try and place under one judgement... but I suppose in general I find the Dalish very flawed, yet interesting and proud people. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Them expecting it of the world or me expecting it of them?

Of the world

 

I'm not saying they should accept the humans though. Just that if they really want their place in Thedas for their people and their culture, they need to make a change. The hunter gatherer thing's not working. They need to forget about the humans and complaining and unite amongst themselves so that they can rebuild and be in a position of power. The humans may dick with them, but all the clans united is nothing to sneeze at. The city elves would cause trouble for them too if they did, since a new elven nation would be appealing for all elves.

[Colonelkillabee]

they maybe diaspora but at least their life purpose isn't wiping a human's ass and should one of them get threatened, some won't hesitate to retaliate with arrows or magic.

They're better than the city elves yes, but they're still more or less in the same boat of being the human's bitches.

 

As Cullen would say, getting to choose your death on your own terms is more than some people get.

 

I do hope Solas' master plan results in a New Arlathan, just as I hope the dwarves are able to reclaim old thaigs and live free on their own, too. I put Bhelen on the throne and side with Branka with just that hope. Obviously the land belongs to whoever can hold it, so I'm not begrudging the humans their victories. They've got problems of their own, though, especially if the Qunari come calling.

And as the events of the game showed, there's always another way

 

I hope they get a shot at a new Arlathan as well. The Dales have a fire in them that I'd like to see awakened. I'd respect them much more if they stopped wallowing in sorrow and stood up to fight for their place in Thedas anew.

[MoonDrummer]

What happened to the land alistair gives them? I'm pretty sure he does it even if te warden isn't dalish.

[Colonelkillabee]

I never thought of the hunter-gatherer angle, but that's interesting.  It's guaranteed to cause conflict given the huge amount of land hunter-gatherers need to sustain themselves. 

They'd have to stop being hunter gatherers at some point. I'm sure they're smart enough to do it. They just need to commit to it.

[Vit246]

The Dalish's callousness to the City Elves' plight is a bit of a jerk move but before Briala the city elves just passively accepted their role as second class citizens to the humans. They don't get a say in government, they can't attain a title, they have little education. The city Elves looking down on the Dalish for not accepting times have changed, the Dalish not accepting the City elves because they don't try to take back any form of their past glory and don't even aspire to better their social standings, meanwhile humans look down on both of them. Both elves are idiots but one thing is for sure, they both should be focusing on getting some respect from the humans.

 

This is exactly my thoughts. And it is weird to me how many anti-Dalish seem to idolize the City Elves even though they are a people who "assimilated" into human civilization by choosing to live in segregated ghettoes as second-class citizens and occasionally victims of convenient pogroms. And just as Dalish look down on City Elves as having given up everything, the City Elves look down on Dalish for being barbarians who refuse to assimilate like them.

 

EDIT: If I had to decide, both groups might be kinda equally pathetic. But at least the Dalish can live on their own terms.

[Vit246]

Disclaimer: please don't let this post derail the thread.

 

BTW, I am finding all of this "looking down on Dalish for trying to preserve their culture" to be almost akin to looking down on the Native Americans for trying to preserve their culture even though they too got "defeated" by a stronger group.

[Colonelkillabee]

This is exactly my thoughts. And it is weird to me how many anti-Dalish seem to idolize the City Elves even though they are a people who "assimilated" into human civilization by choosing to live in segregated ghettoes as second-class citizens and occasionally victims of convenient pogroms. And just as Dalish look down on City Elves as having given up everything, the City Elves look down on Dalish for being barbarians who refuse to assimilate like them.

Which is hilarious. At least a barbarian is free. City elves have no room to say a damn thing. They are the most pathetic group in Thedas.

[MoonDrummer]

The dalish aren't perfect, but I I was teleported into thedas, transformed into an elf and then given a choice between te dalish and the alienage. I would choose the dalish in an instant.

[LOLandStuff]

Somehow, I find a new Arlathan to be a bad idea, since it wasn't this Disneyland place Dalish believe it to be.

From what we know, we have these ancient elves, where the elite were way too eager to brand their slaves with the markings of the gods they worshiped. Them slapping their faces with blood is expected, but what about their slaves?

 

I think each god had its own city or whatever. And maybe once Mythal died, Arlathan fell as well since they had no god to protect it.

 

They need to move on and learn from their past.

[Chari]

I am in agreement with you.


I also that these anti-dalish believe that Ireland should not have fought for independence so many times despite losing. Becuase the Irish fought countless rebellions against the english and lost. Yet they still fought and resisted, not always through violance but they did what they could to preserve their culture despite the english. eventually after numerous rebellions they won their independence.

I see more then a bit of the Irish in the Dalish. Including the fact that in the past, both societies owned slaves. Considering that the dalish similar to Gaelic Reconstructioist have to peice together their old religion, with not much evidence. They have been subjacted and suffered. Now the comparisson isn't perfect for the Irish never became nomads. I can still see them in the Dalish. One also must understand that even if they joined with their city elf cousins, they would have to give up their faith, as the human kingdoms are all andrastian and belong to either the imperial chantry or the southern chantry.

I am not saying that either group is perfect, for people are flawed individuals. but one can not just tar a group with a brush and say "they are all stupid, wrong and evil" nor the opposite as well.

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The dalish will never be able to join human cities for one simple reason: no dalish would let a shem treat her or him like a stray animal. Until humans learn to respect elves it just can't happen. Looking at RL history and how we reached an idea of racial equality... it'll take centures for Thedas civilizations to even create the concept. Except qunari but, eh, they are really aggressive about it

No nation is purely evil or good. No nation deserves to be crushed. Change, adaptation is what needed, not destruction. Heck, even Tevinter doesn't deserve to be buried. Nations are made of people, people are different