406 réponses à ce sujet

[finc.loki]

Wut? Are you talking about BioWare games? 

 

Enemy mooks have always been relatively evenly split between men, women, and non-gendered beings in DA.

Most melee units in DA2 tend to be men while ranged tend to be female but that's irrelevant really.

Actually more in general.

 

Even in DA games the enemies are more male than female. Granted I haven't played far in DAI yet, but so far I've played it seems most of mage enemies a male, same for archer and the shield carrying enemies.

As for monsters, they are monsters. 

[finc.loki]

In America. In other countries, the word professor means something else.

?

 

Excerpt of wiki:

 

A professor is a highly accomplished and recognized academic. In most Commonwealth nations, as well as northern Europe, professor is reserved only for the highest academic rank at a university. In the United States and Canada, the title of professor is granted to a larger percentage, about a quarter,^[3] of scholars with doctorate degrees (typically Ph.Ds) or equivalent qualifications who teach in four-year colleges and universities, and is used in the titles assistant professor and associate professor,^[4] which are not considered professor-level positions in many other countries, as well as for full professors. In Australia, the title associate Professor is used in place of Reader, ranking above Senior Lecturer and below full Professors, and being of comparable rank to full Professors in North America.^[5]

Beyond holding the proper academic title, universities in many countries also append famous artists, athletes and foreign dignitaries with the title honorary professor, even if these persons don't have the academic qualifications typically necessary for professorship. However, such "professors" usually do not undertake academic work for the granting institution. In general, the title of professor is strictly used for academic positions rather those holding it on honorary basis.

 

It would seem it means the same all over the place and only people not KNOWING that "professor" is not a high school teacher. Perpetuating it.

 

So in Northern Europe where I am originally from it is only the highest rank. That said, it still carries higher rank that "high school" level in academics even in America.

 

So much for that.

[finc.loki]

Uh, yeah. It's exactly about semantics. Now are YOU starting to get the point? More women play games than men. That doesn't mean that they are 'gamers'. There is no data on the demographics of 'gamers'.

More women play games than men? What do you base that on? PLEASE do not tell me you base this on unscientific studies that cannot even grasp the difference of a MOBA and MMO. That include "boardgames" as an option. I wonder if "Bowling" is considered as well.

 

This is Hijacking of a term. "Gamer" is a verb, it does NOT apply to other games like playing cricket, bowling, tennis etc. Yet they are games.

It's a term coined for a group of people that have gaming as a primary hobby. That invest time into it.

 

Same way you have movie critics and then people watching movies and can critique them. Sure one is a profession but it signifies more in depth knowledge and involvement past just seeing a movie here and there.

 

Besides you're being silly arguing semantics when YOU and everyone else know exactly what we're talking about.

[daveliam]

More women play games than men? What do you base that on? PLEASE do not tell me you base this on unscientific studies that cannot even grasp the difference of a MOBA and MMO. That include "boardgames" as an option. I wonder if "Bowling" is considered as well.

 

This is Hijacking of a term. "Gamer" is a verb, it does NOT apply to other games like playing cricket, bowling, tennis etc. Yet they are games.

It's a term coined for a group of people that have gaming as a primary hobby. That invest time into it.

 

Same way you have movie critics and then people watching movies and can critique them. Sure one is a profession but it signifies more in depth knowledge and involvement past just seeing a movie here and there.

 

Besides you're being silly arguing semantics when YOU and everyone else know exactly what we're talking about.

 

I'm going to say this very, very slowly and simply for you, since you seem to have trouble grasping the concept:
 

A gamer is someone who self-identifies into that particular subculture of the video game audience.

A video game player is anyone who plays video games regularly.  They may or may not self identify as a gamer.

 

There are more women than male video game players.  There have been several studies that show this. 

 

There is no data on the demographics of gamers.  It is likely that it is majority male, but there is no empirical data to support this.  And, to be honest, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to get data on this.  No one has seen the need to so, though.

 

I have not seen anyone in this thread claim that the majority of gamers are women. 

 

I have, however, seen people say that mobile, casual, and flash games "don't count" as video games and, therefore, video game players who play those games also "don't count", which is objectively false. 

 

And, even if the majority of gamers were women now, why are you so threatened by this?  Why do you feel like your subculture is getting "hijacked" because women play casual mobile games?  If someone who plays casual games every single day self-identifies as a gamer, how does that effect you?  Why do you care enough to feel the need to make rude posts on a message board about it? 

 

Also, gamer is not a verb.

[finc.loki]

No, I'm not. You make claims about how many people of different types play this game. Did you make it all up? Are you basing it on assumptions? Are you basing it in facts?

I haven't given an exact number.

 

But I guess in your mind out of 40 million GTA 5 players 20 million of them are women, they just keep it a secret and ONLY divulge this illuminati scale secret to you and other women?

They never speak up in microphones online in many of these games, because all these dastardly boys will molest them over the microphone. Yet here on this forum they seem pretty proud and vocal and have no problem saying they are women and playing this game.

 

It's called logical deduction. THAT is what I base it on.

 

 

That said here is a psychological study about "gamers":

 

http://psychology.wi.../videogames.asp

 

Multiple independent samples t tests were conducted to determine if male gamers and female gamers differ in the age that players reported to first play video games, and the amount of time they spent playing games on a desktop/laptop computer and other system devices. Results revealed that female gamers (MAge = 9.30, SD = 4.18) reliably reported that they started to play video games at an older age than male gamers (M Age = 6.60, SD = 2.47). Additionally, male gamers spent more hours per week (M = 17.46, SD = 19.72) playing games on the computer than female gamers (M = 6.51, SD = 12.58). Male and female players did not differ in terms of the amount of hours they spent playing games on other devices.

A chi-square test of independence revealed that male respondents were significantly more likely to classify themselves as “Frequent” or “Expert” video game players while female respondents were more likely to classify themselves as “Occasional”, or “Novice” game players. Figure 1 shows the types of video game players broken down per gender group.

 

 

Right there you can also see women tend to see themselves more as casual player and not play as much as men.

If these women were to be into GTA games, Halo, Mass Effects, Skyrims, Fallout 3's, Crysis games, Diablo 3 etc etc etc ad nauseum, it would reflect in them calling themselves more "expert". You have a woman in this thread that said she has already played 339 hours of DAI, I call that pretty "expert". But yet again Bioware games does not represent all AAA titles and neither do these forums.

 

 

NEXT

 

Results from a 2x2 chi-square test indicated that significantly more men (84.92%) than women (46.07%) reported that they played violent games (See Figure 3).

 

 

 

 

This is kind of interesting don't you think? How many AAA titles (big blockbusters, not discussing MOBILE GAMES) would you say are "Violent" in nature?

I'd say a majority of them. Even this game is violent since it is a huge part based on combat and KILLING monsters and people.

It isn't exactly "the sims".

Already there we can conclude that it couldn't possibly be 50-50 in violent games in terms of gender playing it, since a majority of the women gamers responded that they did NOT prefer violent games.

 

 

In conclusion does this study show irrefutable proof, NO. But it also shows how general it can be.

Saying women play more RPG than man, sure that can be true if you include all the F2P RPG on tablets and mobile phones and computers.

But if you focused only on AAA blockbuster RPG titles and MMORPG, the story is probably not the same. Especially since most AAA RPG games are violent. Sure some women might love that, but it seems to me that most women aren't that into violence. Or maybe they would be punching people left and right at bars, on streets, join the military etc etc.

 

Let me guess now we will go into "predetermined gender roles" inferred since birth and just ignore Testosterone etc.

 

The fact that in real life men often do more dangerous and risk taking jobs, women more nurturing and people type jobs.

Yet in "gaming" all of a sudden these traits are gone and women just LOVE to lop off Orc heads in Shadow of Mordor or chainsaw kill locusts in Gears of war.

 

These games might have a more even demographic BECAUSE they include stuff that DO appeal to women more. The ability to create a character with makeup even this time. That you can cruise play the story in many Bioware games and almost ignore combat.

Last but not least ROMANCE...

 

But it's OK you can continue an play that you don't know exactly what I am talking about and yes ALL games have 50% female audience, no matter what. This is what the studies say. I also hear Noah in the Bible lived for 900 years. But there was no study "disproving" it.

[Sprenk]

And, even if the majority of gamers were women now, why are you so threatened by this?  Why do you feel like your subculture is getting "hijacked" because women play casual mobile games?  If someone who plays casual games every single day self-identifies as a gamer, how does that effect you?  Why do you care enough to feel the need to make rude posts on a message board about it.

 

This.

 

Actually, I don't mind folks who want to make a distinction between "hardcore" and "casual" gamers. Just realize that the demographics for "hardcore" are changing rapidly, too.

 

Also, those of you who are elitists don't get to be the gatekeeper to decide who's a "real" gamer and who isn't. It's not a insider's club you control. There's no membership card. Such thinking is and always will be anathema to any true gamer.

[daveliam]

<snip>

 

I genuinely don't understand why you are bring up those results.  It wasn't a study that was meant to be representational.  It was a study that just looked at 341 people who play video games (again, not gamers), to see if there are differences in their choices.

 

What is your argument here?  That since men are more likely to play violent games and since most AAA titles have violence, the majority of AAA title players are male.  Is that your point?  Okay, good for you.

 

Do me a favor, read this sentence:  "NO ONE IS SAYING THAT THE MAJORITY OF AAA TITLE GAME PLAYERS ARE FEMALE." 

 

Read it?  Good, one more time:  "NO ONE IS SAYING THAT THE MAJORITY OF AAA TITLE GAME PLAYERS ARE FEMALE."

 

Hopefully it sunk in this time.

 

Also, why do you keep saying that the Bible is a 'study'.  Between that assertion and the fact that you linked to a non-relevant study, it makes me think that you might not really understand how quantitative research works. 

 

This.

 

Actually, I don't mind folks who want to make a distinction between "hardcore" and "casual" gamers. Just realize that the demographics for "hardcore" are changing rapidly, too.

 

Also, those of you who are elitists don't get to be the gatekeeper to decide who's a "real" gamer and who isn't. It's not a insider's club you control. There's no membership card. Such thinking is and always will be anathema to any true gamer.

 

The "I'm the one who gets to decide if you are a real gamer" stuff just strikes me as a bunch of bullied nerds trying to flip the tables on another group to make them feel more relevant.

 

The real gamers that I know accept anyone into their ranks because the most important thing is the awesomeness of playing games with each other.  Not making sure that it's only certain types allowed into the club. 

[XMissWooX]

Actually no, it's obvious to me that whilst some men do play games, they usually stick to casual games like Lego Batman and Angry Birds. But for the most part the main demographic of proper games is women, who like to play Dark Souls, DA and ME.

I have absolutely no evidence to support my claims, but I'm sure we can all agree that I'm completely right.

[finc.loki]

I'm going to say this very, very slowly and simply for you, since you seem to have trouble grasping the concept:
 

A gamer is someone who self-identifies into that particular subculture of the video game audience.

A video game player is anyone who plays video games regularly.  They may or may not self identify as a gamer.

 

There are more women than male video game players.  There have been several studies that show this. 

 

There is no data on the demographics of gamers.  It is likely that it is majority male, but there is no empirical data to support this.  And, to be honest, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to get data on this.  No one has seen the need to so, though.

 

I have not seen anyone in this thread claim that the majority of gamers are women. 

 

I have, however, seen people say that mobile, casual, and flash games "don't count" as video games and, therefore, video game players who play those games also "don't count", which is objectively false. 

 

And, even if the majority of gamers were women now, why are you so threatened by this?  Why do you feel like your subculture is getting "hijacked" because women play casual mobile games?  If someone who plays casual games every single day self-identifies as a gamer, how does that effect you?  Why do you care enough to feel the need to make rude posts on a message board about it? 

 

Also, gamer is not a verb.

Exactly how do you say things "slowly" in a text? 

 

I know exactly the FN concept I think you have a SEVERE reading comprehension.

 

You still don't seem to grasp that all these studies are used to say "everyone" is a "gamer", not just "a person who play games".

 

Case in point how Wall Street Journal has this as the HEADLINE (which is just one publication of numerous that FAIL to make the distinction):

http://www.wsj.com/a...orld-1408464249

Women Now Make Up Almost Half of Gamers

 

Was that in large enough print for you to see?

 

You still don't get it. I am talking about women do NOT make up 50% of the PEOPLE playing AAA console/PC titles. The big budget games. But they do make up a majority or at least equal amount of mobile/tablet and casual games.

That has been my point all along. If you actually passed reading comprehension, this problem wouldn't have existed in the first place.

 

Call them Gamers, bowlers, hammers, whatever the hell you like. I am talking about the DEMOGRAPHIC of AAA games.

 

You have to understand that in all these articles and studies they refer oftentimes to everyone as "gamers". We BOTH already knew BEFORE this thread the difference between "gamer" as a term and "people who play games in general".

 

Pay attention.

 

There have been claims in this thread that there are more women playing DAI and any Bioware game than men. There have been claims that women play RPG's more than men. Yet none of it is based on detail. Such as WHAT RPG's? So more women played Skyrim, Fallout 3, The Witcher 1-2 than men.

By looking at these FLAWED studies it can look like that and the only thing I have been arguing in this whole thread is that I do not believe that women make up 50% of AAA gaming.

 

Someday that will change, when developers finally makes big budget AAA games marketed towards women and aimed at them. RIght now it is very male dominated.

How can anyone argue with that.

Progress takes time.

 

Finally I am NOT threatened if women would be the majority, all I care is that I get the games I like to play. This game could have 80% women playing it and I STILL would like it and play it because it appeals to me.

 

I am just talking about how today with Anita Sarkeesian, and these "studies" how it paints a false picture, when it comes to AAA titles. THAT IS ALL!

I hate seeing people using it as some kind of tool for some kind of agenda. I simply don't like falsity.

 

Don't even try to paint me as a misogynist or I am scared of women gamers, that is cheap and untrue.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

This.
 
Actually, I don't mind folks who want to make a distinction between "hardcore" and "casual" gamers. Just realize that the demographics for "hardcore" are changing rapidly, too.
 
Also, those of you who are elitists don't get to be the gatekeeper to decide who's a "real" gamer and who isn't. It's not a insider's club you control. There's no membership card. Such thinking is and always will be anathema to any true gamer.

I really hate the " true hardcore gamer" thing, is usually just used by arrogant a-holes to insult & judge people, those kinda people are the same type who would just completely dismiss me as a "real gamer" just because im a woman & therefore not "good enough" or just "looking for attention" which i find incredibly annoying

[Tymvir]

I really hate the " true hardcore gamer" thing, is usually just used by arrogant a-holes to insult & judge people

 

irony

[Sprenk]

 

But it's OK you can continue an play that you don't know exactly what I am talking about and yes ALL games have 50% female audience, no matter what. This is what the studies say. I also hear Noah in the Bible lived for 900 years. But there was no study "disproving" it.

You claim to value logic and evidence, but then you deploy a classic strawperson fallacy (nobody here is saying "ALL games have 50% female audience.")

 

You've got legitimate points to make about the demographics of the gaming audience, but you spoil them by blunt generalizations about male and female gender roles. You seem to have an axe to grind. Why feel threatened by the fact that the audience for games is expanding? Gaming is a thriving, growing sub-culture--no, it's not even a sub-culture anymore. It's mainstream. And that's a GOOD thing. Everyone is welcome. And even the "hardcore," violent games you prefer are thriving.

 

This is a golden age of gaming, in part because the demographics of the gaming culture are expanding so rapidly. That's good for everyone--yes, it's good for the "elite," "hardcore" sub-culture, too.

[daveliam]

<snip>

 

Since you cannot actually carry on a conversation without being rude and obnoxious, I'm done with you.  You continue to ignore the message that I say, so it's clear to me that you are just looking for a fight.  I block people who just look for fights.  Enjoy yelling in a vacuum. 

[finc.loki]

Actually no, it's obvious to me that whilst some men do play games, they usually stick to casual games like Lego Batman and Angry Birds. But for the most part the main demographic of proper games is women, who like to play Dark Souls, DA and ME.

I have absolutely no evidence to support my claims, but I'm sure we can all agree that I'm completely right.

Except anyone reading this instinctually think it is IDIOTIC.

 

 

It's called using common sense, I guess if you lack it, it WILL be hard to grasp.

 

If I say something similar to the effect that men do not play COD, they play Pokemon. Women prefer Expendables movies over "The Notebook".

 

Who in their right mind would say, yes I do believe it and we need a study for it.

[Tymvir]

Why is it so hard to accept the fact that the AAA audience are mostly boys and men? Nobody is trying to keep anyone out, but please don't try to distort reality. Even Mass Effect 3, one of the most inclusive AAA games with a badass femshep, had about 80% male players:

 

 

Video games are one of the very few markets women do not dominate, and feminists are mad. They want to dictate to developers what kinds of games they can or cannot make, what kinds of characters are acceptable. I don't protest in front of a fashion store just because female sections are twice as large as male sections and call the store owner sexist, but in a gender studies world, this must sound perfectly reasonable. Forget the market, Anita knows best.

[WildOrchid]

Aw, the insecurity is showing...

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

irony

Well...has been true in my experience, you try getting insulted by a store clerk just for daring to buy some RPG games as a female gamer then getting home to find the guy has given you empty boxes on purpose, would likely give you issues about it too

[MagisterMaximus]

Well...has been true in my experience, you try getting insulted by a store clerk just for daring to buy some RPG games as a female gamer then getting home to find the guy has given you empty boxes on purpose, would likely give you issues about it too

Wow, that's just **** move in general. Way to show customer appreciation.

[daveliam]

<snip>

 

Ugh.  Seriously?  Please link to the post here where people are claiming that 50% of the AAA gaming market is female. 

 

I'll wait.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Wow, that's just **** move in general. Way to show customer appreciation.

Yeah, was f**ked up that i had to travel several miles back to the store to actually get the disks that id already paid for, haven't shopped there since

[XMissWooX]

Except anyone reading this instinctually think it is IDIOTIC.
 
 
It's called using common sense, I guess if you lack it, it WILL be hard to grasp.
 
If I say something similar to the effect that men do not play COD, they play Pokemon. Women prefer Expendables movies over "The Notebook".
 
Who in their right mind would say, yes I do believe it and we need a study for it.

I find it highly amusing that you call this idiotic, because I am literally doing the exact same thing that you are doing.
You claim that a majority of gamers are men, you provide absolutely no evidence to even begin to suggest that what you say is true.
You claim that this is such an obvious fact, so I'm sure that you can find pages and pages on evidence to support you.

[finc.loki]

I genuinely don't understand why you are bring up those results.  It wasn't a study that was meant to be representational.  It was a study that just looked at 341 people who play video games (again, not gamers), to see if there are differences in their choices.

 

What is your argument here?  That since men are more likely to play violent games and since most AAA titles have violence, the majority of AAA title players are male.  Is that your point?  Okay, good for you.

 

Do me a favor, read this sentence:  "NO ONE IS SAYING THAT THE MAJORITY OF AAA TITLE GAME PLAYERS ARE FEMALE." 

 

Read it?  Good, one more time:  "NO ONE IS SAYING THAT THE MAJORITY OF AAA TITLE GAME PLAYERS ARE FEMALE."

 

Hopefully it sunk in this time.

 

Also, why do you keep saying that the Bible is a 'study'.  Between that assertion and the fact that you linked to a non-relevant study, it makes me think that you might not really understand how quantitative research works. 

 

 

The "I'm the one who gets to decide if you are a real gamer" stuff just strikes me as a bunch of bullied nerds trying to flip the tables on another group to make them feel more relevant.

 

The real gamers that I know accept anyone into their ranks because the most important thing is the awesomeness of playing games with each other.  Not making sure that it's only certain types allowed into the club. 

 

Are you for real?  How is it NOT a study to be representational? Did they just do it for "fun" on a coffee break?

They just like OTHER studies asked questions about gaming habits, this is the result they got.

You asked for "studies" I gave you one and now it isn't valid because it supports my claim. Priceless!

 

 

 

What is your argument here?  That since men are more likely to play violent games and since most AAA titles have violence, the majority of AAA title players are male.  Is that your point?  Okay, good for you.

That is EXACTLY my point.  

"Good for you", what do you concede there is merit in it or just trying to pass it by like this haven't been what I have been talking about the whole time.

People made claims and talked about studies making it sound like in big budget games women are 50% of the sales. just because these studies say 50% of all "gamers/people who play games" are women. I say that is unlikely.

 

The studies are false and skewed the results. They lump in AAA titles with mobile games, use a general term for all of it .

 

It has never been about whether it is good or bad, or anything, I just don't like false statistic trying to paint something when it is not or too much generalizing. Often as some kind of tool to use as some kind of agenda.

 

I have no problems if women truly WOULD be 50% of all AAA titles including the "violent" ones. In what way would that affect me as long as the games stay they same or that there are more on offer. I have no problem with games aimed towards women. I just don't buy them. Just like movies and books.

I do have issue though when some people want to "change" games to fit women, why not just make a NEW game IP? Why change something established.

It's like saying Tomb Raider and Lara Croft should be a male and be about tennis.

 

I WANT more women in gaming, perhaps that can bring some new ideas, there are a LOT of stagnation and repeated sequels ad nauseum.

Amy Henig wrote Uncharted games, I LOVE those games.

[daveliam]

Yeah, was f**ked up that i had to travel several miles back to the store to actually get the disks that id already paid for, haven't shopped there since

 

That sounds like a terrible experience.  I'm not a complainer when it comes to retail or customer service, but I might have actually complained to a manager about that one.

[Tymvir]

Ugh.  Seriously?  Please link to the post here where people are claiming that 50% of the AAA gaming market is female. 

 

I'll wait.

 

There have been attempts to claim that the majority of PC and RPG gamers are female across all categories, using surveys of all things. I know these 'studies' are quite popular on this forum. This one has been referenced quite a lot on the BSN.

[XMissWooX]

Why is it so hard to accept the fact that the AAA audience are mostly boys and men? Nobody is trying to keep anyone out, but please don't try to distort reality. Even Mass Effect 3, one of the most inclusive AAA games with a badass femshep, had about 80% male players:



Video games are one of the very few markets women do not dominate, and feminists are mad. They want to dictate to developers what kinds of games they can or cannot make, what kinds of characters are acceptable. I don't protest in front of a fashion store just because female sections are twice as large as male sections and call the store owner sexist, but in a gender studies world, this must sound perfectly reasonable. Forget the market, Anita knows best.

Actually , those figures state that 80% of Shepards (and only those which completed the game) are male, not that 80% of players are male. What about a female player plays as a male Shepard?