406 réponses à ce sujet

[ArtemisMoons]

Is it really all that important to yell "WOMENS DON'T PLAY REAL GAMES!!111!!!"?

 

Because obviously this forum is filled with a good number of women who would beg to differ. 

 

However, I think we mostly just want to be recognized without the constant slew of insults. You wonder why you don't hear many females in multiplayer? We tire of the sandwich and kitchen jokes. We tire of constantly being hit on and then called prudes or sluts or whatever other insult. We also get tired of being blamed whenever the match goes south because obviously "girls can't game".

 

Gaming isn't about what's in your pants, so why do we have to make a big deal out of who is male or female? Respect and representation matter. Can't we just band together in our gaming culture?

 

Regarding the OP, this feels like it might have been an attempt to chat up ladies. Or insult them. Possibly both at the same time.

[Maverick827]

Anyone else wondered why we are almost exclusively killing male characters in games and hardly ever if at all women?
 
Just another topic to ponder in this 50% female gamers.
We have some female lead protagonists, like Lara Croft. She is a master at slaying men in Tomb Raider. Where are the female enemies?
How come only the Heroine exist as the bad@ss slayer of bad guys, but there are seldom any female enemies just as capable and trying to slay the hero, whether female or male lead protagonist?

Male disposability. No one cares if men die, but even worse, no one cares that no one cares if men die.

RPGs are getting better, mostly because enemies are randomly generated to some degree, though depressingly enough there is almost certainly an algorithm that skews mooks towards men anyway (or, rather, certain enemy types are 100% men, but rarely are there enemy types that are 100% women).

The truly evil characters are still almost 100% men, though. Women who do evil things are usually given sympathetic rationale and/or were essentially mind controlled into doing it. Though maybe this is just a confirmation bias. I would actually love if someone with a better memory of Dragon Age named villains could prove me wrong.

[daveliam]

There have been attempts to claim that the majority of RPG gamers are female, using surveys of all things. I know these 'studies' are quite popular on this forum. This one has been referenced quite a lot.

 

So.....no one has actually said that women  make up 50% of the AAA Title gaming market, then? 

 

Just that women might be the majority of RPG players.

 

Just checking.

[Tymvir]

So.....no one has actually said that women  make up 50% of the AAA Title gaming market, then? 

 

Just that women might be the majority of RPG players.

 

Just checking.

 

And I claimed that the AAA market is made up mostly of boys and men, not just 50%+. The number of women might be increasing, but the primary audience is still male.

[Nefla]

Actually no, it's obvious to me that whilst some men do play games, they usually stick to casual games like Lego Batman and Angry Birds. But for the most part the main demographic of proper games is women, who like to play Dark Souls, DA and ME.

I have absolutely no evidence to support my claims, but I'm sure we can all agree that I'm completely right.

You must be right because I've played all three of those games yet I've never met a man who has. Coincidence? I think not!

[finc.loki]

I really hate the " true hardcore gamer" thing, is usually just used by arrogant a-holes to insult & judge people, those kinda people are the same type who would just completely dismiss me as a "real gamer" just because im a woman & therefore not "good enough" or just "looking for attention" which i find incredibly annoying

Who said you're not a real "gamer", clearly you ARE, you are playing this game. You are on a gaming forum. That shows passion and THAT is what a 'gamer' is. It has NOTHING to do with gender. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Actually , those figures state that 80% of Shepards (and only those which completed the game) are male, not that 80% of players are male. What is a female player plays as a male Shepard?

I know right?  Women gender-bend in games all the time.

 

For that matter, how old is this poll?  Isn't that just in relation to the Xbox, or does it account for PC and Playstation?  Has it been updated in the last couple of years?  I'd be willing to bet that players like myself, that got into the series more recently, aren't accounted for.  So folks that throw around that number are really working with incomplete information.

 

By the way, as a female gamer, I've never touched Candy Crush.  I played Farmville briefly about 3 years ago, and I don't even own a cell phone.  So this notion that surely women are only playing mobile games is completely false.  You know who's the big mobile game player in my home?  My husband.  Even then, he still plays plenty of the AAA games like Alien:Isolation, the Batman Arkham series, AC, the new Wolfenstein (surprisingly brilliant story and dialogue) ect ect.

 

I love how somehow, puzzle games aren't "real" games.  I guess Tetris was a "legitimate" game because it was on a console? 

[AlexRD]

I have a more important question. Guys plays girls, fact. I don't know why, maybe it's an unfulfilled desire, but guys tend to play female characters and the excuse they use is they don't want to look at a guys butt all the time. Now my question is, do girls usually play male characters? Or girls play girls. Which would mean that the majority of characters in dragon age is female. 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

That sounds like a terrible experience.  I'm not a complainer when it comes to retail or customer service, but I might have actually complained to a manager about that one.

I did complain about it but i couldn't prove he'd done it deliberately even tho im certain it was after he'd acted with contempt towards me & asked me stupid questions about why "somebody like me" was buying any game that wasn't Cooking Mama or Wii sports for myself, especially since the game manuals were included for both games but the disks somehow weren't

[Tymvir]

Actually , those figures state that 80% of Shepards (and only those which completed the game) are male, not that 80% of players are male. What about a female player plays as a male Shepard?

 

It should even out, men probably play women more often than vice versa. (though either would be difficult to prove)

[Panda]

So this debate about what type of games women play. Well like men, women play lot of different types obviously, but RPG's probaply are most popular within female audience and I know that BW's games are very popular with women gamers since they treat women pretty respectfully compared to many else. Women play lot of online games too but they don't often reveal that they are women cause harashment. Like I play lot of LoL and I don't mention I'm female.

 

Still for every genre of gaming I know woman who plays it... (and now someone will throw me some game genre I have never heard about I guess XD).

[Grieving Natashina]

I have a more important question. Guys plays girls, fact. I don't know why, maybe it's an unfulfilled desire, but guys tend to play female characters and the excuse they use is they don't want to look at a guys butt all the time. Now my question is, do girls usually play male characters? Or girls play girls. Which would mean that the majority of characters in dragon age is female. 

Usually?  Not that I've seen.  It tends to vary.  I've seen guys playing female characters; women playing male characters; and any combination you can think of though. 

 

 

So this debate about what type of games women play. Well like men, women play lot of different types obviously, but RPG's probaply are most popular within female audience and I know that BW's games are very popular with women gamers since they treat women pretty respectfully compared to many else. Women play lot of online games too but they don't often reveal that they are women cause harashment. Like I play lot of LoL and I don't mention I'm female.

 

Still for every genre of gaming I know woman who plays it... (and now someone will throw me some game genre I have never heard about I guess XD).

I can't count how many players that I knew were women that either had "broken mics" when they were raiding and rolled up male characters just to dodge harassment.  

[Panda]

I have a more important question. Guys plays girls, fact. I don't know why, maybe it's an unfulfilled desire, but guys tend to play female characters and the excuse they use is they don't want to look at a guys butt all the time. Now my question is, do girls usually play male characters? Or girls play girls. Which would mean that the majority of characters in dragon age is female. 

 

I play both. It seems like I accidentantly contributed to this huge amount of male Shephards since I chose male Shephard first..

[daveliam]

And I claimed that the AAA market is made up mostly of boys and men, not just 50%+. The number of women might be increasing, but the primary audience is still male.

 

Yeah, I agree with you.  I think you are correct.  I really don't see people trying to dispute that.

 

I think that games that allow you to chose your gender likely have higher female player-bases.  It only makes sense since those game usually include that option specifically to allow female gamers to have representation.  So, it makes sense that games like western RPGs (specifically the Fable series, Bethesda, and Bioware games) would have higher female player-bases when compared to other AAA titles.  But even within those studios' franchises, it would vary.  I genuinely wouldn't be surprised to see that the DA series is close to 50/50.  I would suspect that ME is probably more males, given that they specifically courted the FPS shooter audience with the second game. 

[finc.loki]

You claim to value logic and evidence, but then you deploy a classic strawperson fallacy (nobody here is saying "ALL games have 50% female audience.")

 

You've got legitimate points to make about the demographics of the gaming audience, but you spoil them by blunt generalizations about male and female gender roles. You seem to have an axe to grind. Why feel threatened by the fact that the audience for games is expanding? Gaming is a thriving, growing sub-culture--no, it's not even a sub-culture anymore. It's mainstream. And that's a GOOD thing. Everyone is welcome. And even the "hardcore," violent games you prefer are thriving.

 

This is a golden age of gaming, in part because the demographics of the gaming culture are expanding so rapidly. That's good for everyone--yes, it's good for the "elite," "hardcore" sub-culture, too.

The axe to grind, would be in how you said "straw person", instead of "straw man". It reeks of political correctness, like it is oppressive to use the proper term for the fallacy you claim I make.

 

How is it generalizations when it is common knowledge. You cannot for real say women and men feel exactly the same about everything? Are you one of those people that want to remove genders?

[finc.loki]

Since you cannot actually carry on a conversation without being rude and obnoxious, I'm done with you.  You continue to ignore the message that I say, so it's clear to me that you are just looking for a fight.  I block people who just look for fights.  Enjoy yelling in a vacuum. 

In other words you ran out of arguments. You were equally rude you HYPOCRITE. Did you forget your comment "I will write it very slowly so you can understand".

 

It is not a vacuum if others can see it. Quid pro quo.

[Nefla]

I have a more important question. Guys plays girls, fact. I don't know why, maybe it's an unfulfilled desire, but guys tend to play female characters and the excuse they use is they don't want to look at a guys butt all the time. Now my question is, do girls usually play male characters? Or girls play girls. Which would mean that the majority of characters in dragon age is female. 

It depends on the depiction of women from game to game. If the female character is sexualized, weak, crappy, etc...then I'm not going to play her. Even in many of the better made games out there female characters are made to be beautiful first, and a deep and interesting character second. I just can't identify with someone treated as an object or lesser. This means I end up playing male characters more often than female and in online games I rarely reveal my gender.

[Lennard Testarossa]

I have a more important question. Guys plays girls, fact. I don't know why, maybe it's an unfulfilled desire, but guys tend to play female characters and the excuse they use is they don't want to look at a guys butt all the time. Now my question is, do girls usually play male characters? Or girls play girls. Which would mean that the majority of characters in dragon age is female. 

 

I'd guess that men play women far more often than women play men. A big part of the reason for that would be that fixed protagonists are usually male, so for guys it would be more "playing as a different sex for a change", while for women it's more "finally being able to play as their own sex for a change".

[daveliam]

The gender bending thing is interesting.  I'm sure that there is a fair amount of it happening in both directions. 

 

Shameless self-plug:

 

So according to the survey in Scuttlebutt (spoilers), the majority of the characters played by respondents were female.  It's about 55% female characters.  The most popular combination is female human mage.  This survey has over 1200 responses from players on 6 different DA: I boards.  It obviously isn't representational of the larger audience, but it might say something about the 'core' DA: I fan audience. 

 

http://strawpoll.me/3196612/r

[Sprenk]

The axe to grind, would be in how you said "straw person", instead of "straw man". It reeks of political correctness, like it is oppressive to use the proper term for the fallacy you claim I make.

 

How is it generalizations when it is common knowledge. You cannot for real say women and men feel exactly the same about everything? Are you one of those people that want to remove genders?

Dude, I used "strawperson" because it is less male-bashing than "strawman" (not that there is a "correct" term for it anymore--you see different sources using one or the other these days). It's not a"PC" thing. You should be thanking me.

 

I never said "women and men feel exactly the same about everything," so you seem to be guilty of a "strawman" fallacy again (there, I used your preferred term).

 

P.S.--There's a whole range of possibility between rigid gender roles and no gender roles. It's not a polarity. If I'm against rigid gender roles, that doesn't mean I oppose any gender roles. Of course. Life is complex, not binary.

[finc.loki]

Yeah, was f**ked up that i had to travel several miles back to the store to actually get the disks that id already paid for, haven't shopped there since

OK.

 

Here is my story:

 

I went and bought a PS3 about a year after it came out, I came home and the store employee and changed out his broken PS3, with a game stuck in it and missing a controller which he clearly kept as an extra for his now stolen system. I brought it back and the employee AND store manager yelled at me and my wife and her mother-in law that came with when I wanted to exchange it, that I was trying to fraud them, in front of 20 people making us feel like criminals around x-mas 2007.  Needless to say after contacting EBgames headquarters, they ALL got fired. Because serial numbers don't lie.

 

They ARE a-holes often times. 

[Grieving Natashina]

All I can say is if gaming stereotypes are true, and all women gamers only play mobile/causal games, then surely every CoD fan has got to be just like this.  A 10-12 year old boy:

 

 

 

I saw it on the internet and I've seen everyone joke about it, so this must be true reflection of the fan base.  

 

C'mon guys, stereotypes are just that.  And no, I don't think most CoD players are like our child with the questionable parents above.  Just like I know women play those same games too. 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Usually?  Not that I've seen.  It tends to vary.  I've seen guys playing female characters; women playing male characters; and any combination you can think of though. 
 
 

I can't count how many players that I knew were women that either had "broken mics" when they were raiding and rolled up male characters just to dodge harassment.

Is a shame that women generally have to hide to avoid abuse or sexual harassment when online, i have a genderneutral PSN iD so i can play MP without getting sh*t off people but i prefer to use female avi's & have suffered people hounding me for sex/naked pic's or just general sexist insults & sometimes worse

[Panda]

I'd guess that men play women far more often than women play men. A big part of the reason for that would be that fixed protagonists are usually male, so for guys it would be more "playing as a different sex for a change", while for women it's more "finally being able to play as their own sex for a change".

 

I actually think opposite. Male aren't used of playing as female characters so they might don't feel comfortable as playing as one. I have always played with male characters and when I have opportunity to play with both I play with both. From what I have seen it seems that men in general don't play characters that aren't "them", like one day I suggested my little brother to take female character on Lotr game but he was like "Wtf, I'm not a woman!". Well he's not dwarf either but I guess it doesn't matter XD

[Nefla]

Is a shame that women generally have to hide to avoid abuse or sexual harassment when online, i have a genderneutral PSN iD so i can play MP without getting sh*t off people but i prefer to use female avi's & have suffered people hounding me for sex/naked pic's or just general sexist insults & sometimes worse

Yeah, even on the very mild end it's annoying. People you had normal conversations with before suddenly have this paradigm shift when they find out you're a woman and start attempting to flirt with you constantly.