172 réponses à ce sujet

[Gaz83]

School time again I see.

 

Atheism: Literally "without gods" The nonbelief or disbelief in deities. That's it.

 

This.

 

It's from the Greek word Atheos (which as the quoted poster alludes to, roughly translates to Without God/Gods. Simple). 

[Applepie_Svk]

What was said and shown in DA:I doesn´t make chant of light any true within the wolrd of Thedas, it´s still made out of myths. There is a great example of how something may cross its own shadow, of how you can debunk myth or the religion, like the Inquisitor pressented as a herald of Andraste, which turned out only as a guy on a bad place in the bad time.

 

As far we know the only version of what happened is made by the chantry, but in the end, it could be far different, it does not make religion true - it´s based on belief.

[Ab_Normal]

It's great fun to start out as a true believer and have your faith shattered mid way through the story. The game sets up such a scenario perfectly, too. 

 

That's what I'm planning for my next play-through, bwah hah hah (cough).

[TheJediSaint]

Oh look!  Another one of these!

[Ashagar]

This.

 

It's from the Greek word Atheos (which as the quoted poster alludes to, roughly translates to Without God/Gods. Simple). 

 

To use it in the classical ancient sense it doesn't require complete nonbelief in gods or lack of religious belief, you could be considered a atheist as lets say a stone believing dwarf who refuses to believe in the maker. Ancient Christians were widely viewed in the ancient world as atheists because they didn't believe in the roman and greek gods and refused to even pretend to worship them.

[Hazegurl]

Religion never made much sense to me, and Dragon Age is no different. Are there options to reject claims that you are the Herald Of Andraste and anything to do with the Maker? Or do you have to choose these options?

I loved telling Cory at the end that I didn't believe in Gods as he was prattling on about becoming one. 

[RepHope]

I loved telling Cory at the end that I didn't believe in Gods as he was prattling on about becoming one.

I had to laugh when no matter what you say, he ends up just giving you this blank stare like "Wat". Then you do this really weird animation where it almost looks like you're trying to stare him down or w/e.

[Vyndral]

You can be anything you want. As long as you don't mind everyone going 'that is nice dearie, just keep pretending.'

So i guess it works out if you are into roleplaying an athiest pretending to be the Herald.

[lLord Bhaal]

School time again I see.

Atheism: Literally "without god(s)" The nonbelief or disbelief in deities. That's it.

If you do not for whatever reason personally believe in the existence of at least one god you are an atheist. Period.

Lol. You missed the point of my post. Read the whole post. Just not the part you quoted trying to disprove it.

[Lavaeolus]

Sorry to get off-topic, but I did Philosophy and I'm just going to burn if I don't respond here. I get the feeling. This is it. This is what my education was for.
 

Lol. You missed the point of my post. Read the whole post. Just not the part you quoted trying to disprove it.

As written, your argument is really battered by that odd definition. Assuming you're correct and the logic follows, all you've done is prove religious beliefs exist. Okay, fair enough, but that's useless. Let's replace "atheism" with "does not believe in gods", since you did not object to that correction.

You'll find half of Philosophy is debating over semantics before you can actually start arguing.
 

No. Because there is no such thing as Atheism. Atheism is based on the premise of not believing in a belief system(s). By not believing in something, by definition, you establish the knowledge of its existence. Just not your acceptance of it. So there is no such thing as Atheism, just Denialism.

Premise 1: Atheism is a lack of belief in gods.
Premise 2: By not believing in something, you establish the knowledge of its existence.

Under this, assuming the premises are correct, this would follow. By an atheist not believing in God, (knowledge of) God's existence would be established. We'll just assume knowledge is correct, on account of being knowledge. I can actually debate that, if you like.

I hereby then challenge your second premise. We can certifiably prove this premise wrong: I don't believe in Cassandra Pentaghast. Or rather, I view her as fictional and not "real" -- as I assume the majority of atheists do about God. I have, however, likely admitted that the concept of Cassandra Pentaghast exists -- this is not the same as Cassandra herself.

Oh, and OP, yes you can be an atheist. Sometimes things feel a bit weird, though.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Lol. You missed the point of my post. Read the whole post. Just not the part you quoted trying to disprove it.

I read it. I corrected the most egregiously incorrect bit:

Atheism is based on the premise of not believing in a belief system(s).

But if you really want me to have a bash at the silly that followed, I'm your huckleberry.
 

By not believing in something, by definition, you establish the knowledge of its existence.

No, you don't. I do not believe in a giant invisible pink bunny rabbit orbiting Mercury. In saying so I have established neither its existence (it does not exist*) nor have I established any knowledge of its existence (which can not exist.) I think, maybe, that you mean that by taking a position against believing in something I recognize that such a belief is possible, or common, or something. Right?

 

If so, OK sure. In a world without belief in gods "atheist" would not be a term since everybody would be an atheist. So what? Some people believe in leprechauns. I don't. The fact that I don't believe says absolutely nothing about the truth of leprechauns or the value of believing in them.
 

So there is no such thing as Atheism, just Denialism.

There is such a thing. I defined it.

Denialism, on the other hand, is the much broader term for the rejection of the well established. Unless you're smugly trying to imply that the existence of God/god/gods/gawds/w'ever is a well established fact then the term does not apply. If you are then good luck and get your helmet on.



*Because even if there is a giant invisible pink bunny rabbit orbiting Mercury, it's not the giant invisible pink bunny rabbit orbiting Mercury that I'm not believing in, it's just some other entirely coincidental giant invisible pink bunny rabbit orbiting Mercury.

[Gaz83]

Under this, assuming the premises are correct, this would follow. By an atheist not believing in God, (knowledge of) God's existence would be established. 

 

I don't believe you. Therefore everything you wrote is true.

 

(Which it totally is) 

[Nathair Nimheil]

I hereby then challenge your second premise. We can certifiably prove this premise wrong: I don't believe in Cassandra Pentaghast. Or rather, I view her as fictional and not "real" -- as I assume the majority of atheists do about God. I have, however, likely admitted that the concept of Cassandra Pentaghast exists -- this is not the same as Cassandra herself.

If there is any further hint of the ontological argument in this thread then I will instantly start to vehemently deny the existence of a nastily fanged perfect monster that is just about to eat certain posters. I'm not joking, I'll do it!

[Gaz83]

If there is any further hint of the ontological argument in this thread then I will instantly start to vehemently deny the existence of a certain nastily fanged perfect monster that is just about to eat certain posters. I'm not joking, I'll do it!

 

Amen. 

 

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

[Star Reborn]

....Presuming how dragon age inquisition has just proved no omnipotence exists in DAI....do what ever you want.

[aries1001]

But can you deny the Maker's existence?  If so, I definitely don't remember it.

 

In DA:O which I'm playing now, you can tell the Chantry Mother in Lothering that you don't believe in the Maker! And at some point, you can tell either her or another person,npc, in the game, that you're really not that religious! And yes, the socalled Elven gods do exist as does demons and spirits. In Thedas. We have proof of this! In the DA Universe! So we know they're real. As far as the old elven gods, they could just have been mages, powerful. And the really old gods could just as well have been  very ancient dragons...

The point is this: Technology, powerful, is indistinguishable from magic as Arthur C. Clarke once said....
 

[Gaz83]

The misleading thing - and understandably so, given most of us are from monotheistic societies - is the word God. 

 

I don't think Gods in Dragon Age equate to our real world faiths and beliefs.  My current character reflects this. 

 

To him, they're just powerful beings. 

[Andres Hendrix]

Personally yes, but not quite secular in institution. I mean, Inquisition and Inquisitor are still-in the end-the militaristic arm of the Chantry. It would have been more so a secular enterprise, if, and only if the Inquisitor gives up power in the end, therefore negating having to support a Divine and the Chantry. Meaning, that you can play as a person who is using his or her organization to save the world and nothing is theistic other than the personal beliefs of others. Nevertheless, in the end, you get sucked into the Chantry’s power vacuum.

[Gaz83]

in the end, you are sucked 

 

*Edited*

 

I keep forgetting this is the official forum! 

[Andres Hendrix]

*Edited*

 

I keep forgetting this is the official forum! 

What are you on about?

[Ieldra]

The misleading thing - and understandably so, given most of us are from monotheistic societies - is the word God. 

 

I don't think Gods in Dragon Age equate to our real world faiths and beliefs.  My current character reflects this. 

 

To him, they're just powerful beings. 

Solas speaks of that. He says - well, he really should say that given later relevations - that he believes the elven gods exist(ed), only that they aren't gods unless you stretch the term to become almost meaningless.

 

However, I think that the Maker stands out in comparison to other gods. He's more recognizably based on an idea, and more separate from the world than the elven gods. The stories of the elven gods feel like distorted history, and the stories of Andraste like slightly less distorted history, but the stories of the Maker sound like the typical instructive tales, where random events are reinterpreted to support an ideology, and the frequent rationalizations of the belief in his existence make as little sense to a skeptic in Thedas as they do in the real world.

 

The elven gods, if they exist, feel as if they are of the world (and thus not real gods if you accept Solas' reasoning), and my preferred response in In Your Heart Shall Burn, "All this happened because of fanatics and arguments about the next world. It's time to start believing in this one" aims exactly at this distinction. 

[Vilegrim]

It seems you can be religious, totally irreligious and anything in-between, which is where my Inquisitor is.

It's very hard to be devote Dalish, you end up coming off atheist rather than invoking your own faith to explain things most of the time.

[Fardreamer]

I find it hilarious when people say "They're not real gods. I'm an atheist." I mean, seriously? You just said you're an athiest, and then validated the existence of "real" gods in the same sentence.

Of course they're gods. They have worshippers, power beyond that of their people, and have even created other sentient beings.

It's really telling how Christianized many of these so called atheists on the forums are when their definition of God is an omniscient, all powerful being. But most gods in history were not omniscient or all powerful. Look at the Norse or Greeks gods. They could be killed. They were not all powerful. They were not omniscient.

[StrangeStrategy]

Whats the point of atheism though? I mean, this is DA we're talking about. Spirits, magic, things both dark and light, you know these things exist. - Leliana... not a direct quote I don't think.

 

The Elven Gods are real, the old gods / archdemons are real, that woman in the Well of Sorrows was weird, there is a sun in the Raw Fade (Golden City?) and the spirit Divine Justinia is just as worthy of god status as any other thing I just mentioned.

[KaiserShep]

Whats the point of atheism though? I mean, this is DA we're talking about. Spirits, magic, things both dark and light, you know these things exist. - Leliana... not a direct quote I don't think.

 

The Elven Gods are real, the old gods / archdemons are real, that woman in the Well of Sorrows was weird, there is a sun in the Raw Fade (Golden City?) and the spirit Divine Justinia is just as worthy of god status as any other thing I just mentioned.

 

I suppose it doesn't really help (or perhaps it does) when you can kill most of them.