172 réponses à ce sujet

[Fardreamer]

I suppose it doesn't really help (or perhaps it does) when you can kill most of them.

all of the Norse gods could be killed. Their deaths were even foretold in the legend of Ragnorak. Are they not gods now too?

[KaiserShep]

Sure, insofar that this is their definition in the mythology (and comic books). In the words of Oolon Colluphid, who is this "god" person anyway?

 

Point is, that they can be killed really takes them down a peg. If it can be slain, incentive to worship decreases. 

[SgtSteel91]

My Inquisitor wasn't sure about belief in the Maker and then later in the game instead of finding God she decided that she didn't care. Either the Maker is real and she would say f-u for letting all this crap happen or the Maker doesn't exist. Is there a word for that?

[Fardreamer]

Sure, insofar that this is their definition in the mythology (and comic books). In the words of Oolon Colluphid, who is this "god" person anyway?

Sounds like you only believe in a Christian definition of God.

[Fardreamer]

My Inquisitor wasn't sure about belief in the Maker and then later in the game instead of finding God she decided that she didn't care. Either the Maker is real and she would say f-u for letting all this crap happen or the Maker doesn't exist. Is there a word for that?

Agnostic.

[KaiserShep]

Sounds like you only believe in a Christian definition of God.

No, I understand the varying definitions of god, but I just don't really think that it matters in the end.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Agnostic.

Agnostic actually means that you think the answer is not attainable with certainty. So you can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist of almost any flavour.

An agnostic atheist doesn't think we can know for sure but doesn't personally believe.
An agnostic theist doesn't think we can know for sure but does personally believe in a god or gods.

[KaiserShep]

Labels are for the birds, man.

[Master Race]

The problem is no matter how much you reject it and make it known you don't believe in the maker or that andraste blessed you people are still going to call you the herald.

[Andres Hendrix]

I find it hilarious when people say "They're not real gods. I'm an atheist." I mean, seriously? You just said you're an athiest, and then validated the existence of "real" gods in the same sentence.

Of course they're gods. They have worshippers, power beyond that of their people, and have even created other sentient beings.

It's really telling how Christianized many of these so called atheists on the forums are when their definition of God is an omniscient, all powerful being. But most gods in history were not omniscient or all powerful. Look at the Norse or Greeks gods. They could be killed. They were not all powerful. They were not omniscient.

I think secular is a better word than atheism in this game, used in such a way as to mean living for your fellow people and not a celestial dictatorship or dictator. Also, it works better when posed aginst the chantry.
 

I see some problems with what you have written. Word games and titles do not validate someone as a god. The so-called elven 'gods' are self-proclaimed as such, but so too is a dictator like Kim-Jong Un, he has worshipers etc. Those things do not make someone a god. As for powers, it is just a hyperbolized magic (whihc in DA means a particular way of harnessing a part of nature). What universes have they created? Creating a sentient being is not too hard when a "mommy and a daddy love each other.."Or did you mean something like Caridin makeing golems, does that make him a god? Flemeth cannot even tell the difference between divine fate and chance and wonders which is true...  These so called elven gods are not Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent the three traditional philosophical aspects that define a god. The three things that makes a god all powerful above nature etc. But for no good reason you say such aspects should not be used, and instead realtivsm should be embraced.  You are wrong about Greek myth, Greek gods could not be killed only traped and maimed by other gods (i.e. Prometheus). I have no idea about Norse myth. I minored in classics however, and I can recall my professor telling us that Greek gods are best thought of as people with great powers.  “Powerful beings” is a much better category than gods for these elven critters.

 

[Merlik]

Religion never made much sense to me, and Dragon Age is no different. Are there options to reject claims that you are the Herald Of Andraste and anything to do with the Maker? Or do you have to choose these options?

I don't see how anyone could be an atheist in a world like Dragon Age.

[Merlik]

If we had demons coming out of the depths of the earth, do you think Richard Dawkins would try to fit it into evolution?

[KaiserShep]

If we had demons coming out of the depths of the earth, do you think Richard Dawkins would try to fit it into evolution?

Kinda depends. Being a fictional universe, the writers could pretty much create whatever they want at a whim. Like, what if it was possible within the DAverse to actually determine the properties of the Fade and demons, how the veil exists in space, and how lyrium allows for magical phenomenon? Of course, during the state of advancement in Dragon Age, it's a much different story, since so many things are unknown (most folks don't even know how blackpowder works for crying out loud). 

A human being from 2014 in Mass Effect's universe would freak the hell out and believe in magic if he met a biotic. 

[JJDXB]

The Justinia spirit doesn't refute the existence of the Maker.  Neither, for that matter, does Solas.  They probably do it because they know that morale is usually more important than the truth, but given that Solas doesn't ever stop being vague about it, despite dropping hints about his nature constantly, he's either suspiciously good at this one thing or he's aware of higher beings.   Of course that doesn't mean they ought to be worshipped, but there's a difference between believing in the existence of a being and refusing to worship it.  I think it's ridiculous to not believe in 'gods' in the context of Thedas, but feel free to not deify them.

[justafan]

Pretty sure that since the Maker has so many similarities to the Judeo-Christian God (re. God of a majority of their target demographic), they will stick to the ambiguity regarding the Chantry's beliefs, and let the player play their character however they want, whether it be an Andrastian Human who fully believes in the Chant, to an elf who only believe in the elven gods, to an atheist dwarf or any combination you desire.  So far I've played an andrastian Elf and an atheist Qunari, in the context of the game either of them could be right, and it's fun to be able to shape my inquisitor accordingly.

[Nathair Nimheil]

If we had demons coming out of the depths of the earth, do you think Richard Dawkins would try to fit it into evolution?

No.

[Fardreamer]

I think secular is a better word than atheism in this game, used in such a way as to mean living for your fellow people and not a celestial dictatorship or dictator. Also, it works better when posed aginst the chantry.
 

I see some problems with what you have written. Word games and titles do not validate someone as a god. The so-called elven 'gods' are self-proclaimed as such, but so too is a dictator like Kim-Jong Un, he has worshipers etc. Those things do not make someone a god. As for powers, it is just a hyperbolized magic (whihc in DA means a particular way of harnessing a part of nature). What universes have they created? Creating a sentient being is not too hard when a "mommy and a daddy love each other.."Or did you mean something like Caridin makeing golems, does that make him a god? Flemeth cannot even tell the difference between divine fate and chance and wonders which is true...  These so called elven gods are not Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent the three traditional philosophical aspects that define a god. The three things that makes a god all powerful above nature etc. But for no good reason you say such aspects should not be used, and instead realtivsm should be embraced.  You are wrong about Greek myth, Greek gods could not be killed only traped and maimed by other gods (i.e. Prometheus). I have no idea about Norse myth. I minored in classics however, and I can recall my professor telling us that Greek gods are best thought of as people with great powers.  “Powerful beings” is a much better category than gods for these elven critters.

 

Your "traditional" philosophical aspects of what define god, only apply to a Judeo-Christian god.  Like I said... none of the Norse gods had any of those characteristics.  Even Odin was not all-powerful, and the death of the gods was written in the prophecy of Ragnarok. 

 

It's interesting to see how many people define what god is by what Christians have taught them, even people who profess to be atheists.  In my opinion, you're a lot more Christian than you are atheistic if that's what you define as a god.

[KaiserShep]

I could visit some of the gods at the Met, though the fact that they share the same composition as some people's bathroom floors kinda takes the luster out of the godliness.

[Andres Hendrix]

Your "traditional" philosophical aspects of what define god, only apply to a Judeo-Christian god.  Like I said... none of the Norse gods had any of those characteristics.  Even Odin was not all-powerful, and the death of the gods was written in the prophecy of Ragnarok. 

 

It's interesting to see how many people define what god is by what Christians have taught them, even people who profess to be atheists.  In my opinion, you're a lot more Christian than you are atheistic if that's what you define as a god.

Those aspects, are still used in philosophy of religion. My mentor and teacher, an atheist like myself who taught me said course used them to highlight what an all powerful god is thought of as being. Just because it is defined as such, that does not mean that one believes in it, so you saying that atheists are Christian is fatuous. These aspects are still used, not just because monotheistic Christianity uses them, but because they actually equate to a being that is above nature because it creates nature (everything). Greek gods and the norse ones as far as I can tell are trapped within the framework of nature. You still have given me no good reason to drop said aspects. As for the rest, you are repeating yourself and ignoring what I wrote.

[Fardreamer]

Those aspects, are still used in philosphy of religon. My mentor and teacher, an atheist like myself who taught me said course uses them. You still have given me no good reason to drop said aspects. As for the rest, you are repeating yourself and ignoring what I wrote.

 

I generally only reply to what I think is worth a reply.  The rest was just too ridiculous for me to merit a reply.  It was one of those things, that I thought anybody who reads it could see your obviously flawed thinking for themselves, and I didn't have to point it out.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Like I said... none of the Norse gods had any of those characteristics.  Even Odin was not all-powerful, and the death of the gods was written in the prophecy of Ragnarok.

But neither were they just more spirits among many others. The determination of "god" vs "spirit" vs "demon" vs etc. in DA seems very arbitrary.

[Andraste_Reborn]

It's interesting to see how many people define what god is by what Christians have taught them, even people who profess to be atheists.  In my opinion, you're a lot more Christian than you are atheistic if that's what you define as a god.

 

The important part is that I don't think any of them exist.

[KaiserShep]

The important part is that I don't think any of them exist.

 

Pretty much this. The hell do I care if Zeus is defined as a god. Replace it with the Maker or Chuck Norris' beard and it's all pretty much the same, just with different stories and levels of "legitimacy" in terms of literary status. 

[Nathair Nimheil]

In my opinion, you're a lot more Christian than you are atheistic if that's what you define as a god.

That's quite true. Well, it's true as long as you first redefine a couple of words, like "Christian" and "atheist".