95 réponses à ce sujet

[Ascendra]

There is also a conversation I got when I took Viv and Cole together, which let me believe she is more human than she shows, just is extremely good at putting on masks. You know, how Cole sees everyone's inner weaknesses and fears, that part they are trying to hide from others. Well Cole saw Viv's fears and they were very... human.
I think its worth taking them just for that conversation to see that part of her character. It also becomes clearer why she joins Inquisition.

I think she is actually better than people consider her to be.

[Dean_the_Young]

Well it does seem like she actually did care about him but the age regression potion was never going to work. I think it was just a way to make it seem like the inquisitor was trying to save the dudes life and Vivienne could use that to pretend she's important. Really wanted the punch option after that one...

 

According to her notes, it had already worked once. It was a gamble, but one with a basis for optimism.

 

If Vivienne's sole goal was to capitalize on the death, she needn't have tried something like that.
 

[kaidanluv]

I had an odd ending to this quest and not really sure how I got there...but essentially I gave Viv the ingredient for the potion, then she gave it to the dude and it didn't work, then back at Skyhold she started blaming ME for it and saying stuff like, "Why did you do this?" and "Now everyone knows exactly what kind of woman you are."

She was really pissed off and acted like I did something wrong or sabotaged the formula somehow. Not sure what I did lol.

[Ascendra]

I had an odd ending to this quest and not really sure how I got there...but essentially I gave Viv the ingredient for the potion, then she gave it to the dude and it didn't work, then back at Skyhold she started blaming ME for it and saying stuff like, "Why did you do this?" and "Now everyone knows exactly what kind of woman you are."

She was really pissed off and acted like I did something wrong or sabotaged the formula somehow. Not sure what I did lol.

 

You can pick two hearts in her quest - one is original, another is fake. You probably gave her a fake heart accidentally so she blamed you for potion failure. Her husband dies anyway, but her reaction differs based on what you give her.

[Scerene]

According to her notes, it had already worked once. It was a gamble, but one with a basis for optimism.

 

If Vivienne's sole goal was to capitalize on the death, she needn't have tried something like that.
 

(if you have a low approval with her, but give her the snowy heart, she will more or less tell you that you helped her kill the duke)perhaps her notes were fake? it would be a very cunning move, of course she figured the inq would be curious as to why she needed the  heart, so she conveniently places this phony note suggesting its for age regression. Honestly who could be bothered to make up a story about wanting to regress somebodies age? it sounds ridiculous saying that with a straight face, on top of that it is very obvious she has feelings for the duke, so telling these lies to the inq face to face so s/he will help her kill her lover, wouldnt exactly be easy, but her feelings and lust for power are stronger, which is why she goes on with it anyway, in the least painful way for herself and the duke. Also if you have low approval with her.... she will almost literally tell you that she used you to kill the duke. Initially i thought the snowy wyvern heart was to make the death less painful for the duke, but perhaps it is because the poison is not tracable, judging by her reaction to kaidin. I know for a fact that, her point was to ingriate herself with the relatives of the duke, whose son is on the council of heralds and is also connected to some other people high in the chantry hierarchy, by having you help her kill the duke, making you and everybody else think you tried to save him, then making herself seem like the good samiratin, by dealing with the aftermath of the death. The inquistion looks good, she looks good for being in it, and even better for dealing with the aftermath and organising funerals etc etc for his family. If she says "now everybody knows what kind of woman you are and my plan didnt work" im assuming she means that everyone thinks you killed the duke, because the venom of a normal wyvern can be traced. I dont know, its speculation on my part in regards to difference between snowy wyvern heart and normal heart, but there is no doubt in my mind that she intended to kill him, after doing this quest with low approval  from her. 

 

i wrote this in another thread, which describes a bit more in detail how the convo goes.

"if you have a low approval with her, it is very heavily implied after the dukes relatives leave that she poisoned him, she also mocks you by telling you that you carried yourself well infront of his relatives in spite of yourself, then she gleefully tells you that she used you and that you played your part well. She will tell you that now that the duke is gone, she has solidified a positive impression to the council of heralds and the chantry, of the inquisition because of your part in "helping" the duke, thus giving herself importance and weight by being included in it, and even more òf herself by taking care of the funeral and being the "good samaritan" after his death. She then goes on to say that she now has strong connections to the council of heralds (the dukes son is a member of the council) and highest levels of the chantry. She will also tell you that she is willing to do whatever it takes to get ahead in the game."

[QweenBeen]

Anyone try to fake out viv and give her a normal wyvern heart?

[Scerene]

I had an odd ending to this quest and not really sure how I got there...but essentially I gave Viv the ingredient for the potion, then she gave it to the dude and it didn't work, then back at Skyhold she started blaming ME for it and saying stuff like, "Why did you do this?" and "Now everyone knows exactly what kind of woman you are."

She was really pissed off and acted like I did something wrong or sabotaged the formula somehow. Not sure what I did lol.

uh, there is a post above you that details this....

[Ascendra]

 

(if you have a low approval with her, but give her the snowy heart, she will more or less tell you that you helped her kill the duke)perhaps her notes were fake? it would be a very cunning move, of course she figured the inq would be curious as to why she needed the  heart, so she conveniently places this phony note suggesting its for age regression. Honestly who could be bothered to make up a story about wanting to regress somebodies age? it sounds ridiculous saying that with a straight face, on top of that it is very obvious she has feelings for the duke, so telling these lies to the inq face to face so s/he will help her kill her lover, wouldnt exactly be easy, but her feelings and lust for power are stronger, which is why she goes on with it anyway, in the least painful way for herself and the duke. Also if you have low approval with her.... she will almost literally tell you that she used you to kill the duke. Initially i thought the snowy wyvern heart was to make the death less painful for the duke, but perhaps it is because the poison is not tracable, judging by her reaction to kaidin. I know for a fact that, her point was to ingriate herself with the relatives of the duke, whose son is on the council of heralds and is also connected to some other people high in the chantry hierarchy, by having you help her kill the duke, making you and everybody else think you tried to save him, then making herself seem like the good samiratin, by dealing with the aftermath of the death. The inquistion looks good, she looks good for being in it, and even better for dealing with the aftermath and organising funerals etc etc for his family. If she says "now everybody knows what kind of woman you are and my plan didnt work" im assuming she means that everyone thinks you killed the duke, because the venom of a normal wyvern can be traced. I dont know, its speculation on my part in regards to difference between snowy wyvern heart and normal heart, but there is no doubt in my mind that she intended to kill him, after doing this quest with low approval  from her. 

 

i wrote this in another thread, which describes a bit more in detail how the convo goes.

"if you have a low approval with her, it is very heavily implied after the dukes relatives leave that she poisoned him, she also mocks you by telling you that you carried yourself well infront of his relatives in spite of yourself, then she gleefully tells you that she used you and that you played your part well. She will tell you that now that the duke is gone, she has solidified a positive impression to the council of heralds and the chantry, of the inquisition because of your part in "helping" the duke, thus giving herself importance and weight by being included in it, and even more òf herself by taking care of the funeral and being the "good samaritan" after his death. She then goes on to say that she now has strong connections to the council of heralds (the dukes son is a member of the council) and highest levels of the chantry. She will also tell you that she is willing to do whatever it takes to get ahead in the game."

 

 

Wow, I wasn't aware that her reaction also depended on her approval. Thats really neat. 

I had very high approval with her so she was sincere in her quest. I think it depends on whether she keeps her mask around you all the time or lets it slip for a while. In my case it quite obviously slipped. 

Anyway, with high approval she does say pretty much the same thing regarding Duke's relatives, except it doesn't sound fake or mocking. It feels like she is letting you on her plans and is actually helping you gain powerful allies. I never got a vile vibe from her, I felt she turned the situation into the advantage for both of us.

[Kappa Neko]

 

(if you have a low approval with her, but give her the snowy heart, she will more or less tell you that you helped her kill the duke)perhaps her notes were fake? it would be a very cunning move, of course she figured the inq would be curious as to why she needed the  heart, so she conveniently places this phony note suggesting its for age regression. Honestly who could be bothered to make up a story about wanting to regress somebodies age? it sounds ridiculous saying that with a straight face, on top of that it is very obvious she has feelings for the duke, so telling these lies to the inq face to face so s/he will help her kill her lover, wouldnt exactly be easy, but her feelings and lust for power are stronger, which is why she goes on with it anyway, in the least painful way for herself and the duke. Also if you have low approval with her.... she will almost literally tell you that she used you to kill the duke. Initially i thought the snowy wyvern heart was to make the death less painful for the duke, but perhaps it is because the poison is not tracable, judging by her reaction to kaidin. I know for a fact that, her point was to ingriate herself with the relatives of the duke, whose son is on the council of heralds and is also connected to some other people high in the chantry hierarchy, by having you help her kill the duke, making you and everybody else think you tried to save him, then making herself seem like the good samiratin, by dealing with the aftermath of the death. The inquistion looks good, she looks good for being in it, and even better for dealing with the aftermath and organising funerals etc etc for his family. If she says "now everybody knows what kind of woman you are and my plan didnt work" im assuming she means that everyone thinks you killed the duke, because the venom of a normal wyvern can be traced. I dont know, its speculation on my part in regards to difference between snowy wyvern heart and normal heart, but there is no doubt in my mind that she intended to kill him, after doing this quest with low approval  from her. 

 

i wrote this in another thread, which describes a bit more in detail how the convo goes.

"if you have a low approval with her, it is very heavily implied after the dukes relatives leave that she poisoned him, she also mocks you by telling you that you carried yourself well infront of his relatives in spite of yourself, then she gleefully tells you that she used you and that you played your part well. She will tell you that now that the duke is gone, she has solidified a positive impression to the council of heralds and the chantry, of the inquisition because of your part in "helping" the duke, thus giving herself importance and weight by being included in it, and even more òf herself by taking care of the funeral and being the "good samaritan" after his death. She then goes on to say that she now has strong connections to the council of heralds (the dukes son is a member of the council) and highest levels of the chantry. She will also tell you that she is willing to do whatever it takes to get ahead in the game."

 

Aha. Thank you. I had low approval too and I thought it was heavily implied that you helped her  poison/kill Bastien. That's why I said yes, she tricked you. And why I wondered about untraceable poison...

 

That doesn't mean she didn't love or at least care a bit for him at some point. After the quest I asked her about Bastien and she couldn't go on at some point because it was too painful. If that was an act too, then that's flawed programming because she already told me that she orchestrated his death. She let me see behind the mask.

 

I don't think she's heartless. Just very very ruthless when it comes to gaining power. If he was dying anyway and she just made sure his death had perfect timing, it's not THAT bad a move, almost merciful... if she made him sick in the first place, that would be a different matter altogether.

 

After Bastien's death, Vivienne changed completely with my inquisitor. Suddenly we're friends and she talks to me respectfully. But I doubt that's because I helped her say goodbye to Bastien. She's just pleased as f*ck with how things are going for her.

She has good advice on being a leader, though. There is a lot of truth in everything she says. She's a keen observer. And not entirely unkind and unsympathetic to other people. She just puts herself first, always. She's a good advisor and an excellent ally. Probably even great fun at parties and a decent friend if you don't pursue the same goals. But don't ever trust her completely.

[Scerene]

okay so this time i got the same convo as kaidain, and she says its illuminating to see what sort of woman you really are,and  not everyone knows exactly what kind of woman you are, which means that the outcome is the same, she will still get what she wants, no matter what heart you give her, or does she not get into councils good graces? The only difference is you will get a heavy dose of disapproval, which leads me back to my original thought that perhaps the snowy wyvern makes the death less painful. She said that it is the most potent venom in the world, meaning she wanted bastiens death to be quick and painless

[Kinsz]

Bastien has been told that he was going to die no matter what by the Circle according to his sister so Vivienne didnt have to kill him , Also why would Vivienne ask you ( a potential witness ) to go with her if she wanted to kill him?

[Precursor Meta]

Nah buddy, she tried to save him. If you give her the wrong ingredient, bastion doesn't speak and Vivienne explains that the potion should be working by now.

But I do wonder why she only stayed as Duke's mistress? I mean the Duke's family seems to like her, and she has close contacts with the Duke's children. In the cutscene with the dying Bastien she does seem to really care for him, but I don't know Vivienne is a bit of a mystery when you think on her to long.

[Precursor Meta]

(if you have a low approval with her, but give her the snowy heart, she will more or less tell you that you helped her kill the duke)perhaps her notes were fake? it would be a very cunning move, of course she figured the inq would be curious as to why she needed the  heart, so she conveniently places this phony note suggesting its for age regression. Honestly who could be bothered to make up a story about wanting to regress somebodies age? it sounds ridiculous saying that with a straight face, on top of that it is very obvious she has feelings for the duke, so telling these lies to the inq face to face so s/he will help her kill her lover, wouldnt exactly be easy, but her feelings and lust for power are stronger, which is why she goes on with it anyway, in the least painful way for herself and the duke. Also if you have low approval with her.... she will almost literally tell you that she used you to kill the duke. Initially i thought the snowy wyvern heart was to make the death less painful for the duke, but perhaps it is because the poison is not tracable, judging by her reaction to kaidin. I know for a fact that, her point was to ingriate herself with the relatives of the duke, whose son is on the council of heralds and is also connected to some other people high in the chantry hierarchy, by having you help her kill the duke, making you and everybody else think you tried to save him, then making herself seem like the good samiratin, by dealing with the aftermath of the death. The inquistion looks good, she looks good for being in it, and even better for dealing with the aftermath and organising funerals etc etc for his family. If she says "now everybody knows what kind of woman you are and my plan didnt work" im assuming she means that everyone thinks you killed the duke, because the venom of a normal wyvern can be traced. I dont know, its speculation on my part in regards to difference between snowy wyvern heart and normal heart, but there is no doubt in my mind that she intended to kill him, after doing this quest with low approval  from her. 
 
i wrote this in another thread, which describes a bit more in detail how the convo goes.
"if you have a low approval with her, it is very heavily implied after the dukes relatives leave that she poisoned him, she also mocks you by telling you that you carried yourself well infront of his relatives in spite of yourself, then she gleefully tells you that she used you and that you played your part well. She will tell you that now that the duke is gone, she has solidified a positive impression to the council of heralds and the chantry, of the inquisition because of your part in "helping" the duke, thus giving herself importance and weight by being included in it, and even more òf herself by taking care of the funeral and being the "good samaritan" after his death. She then goes on to say that she now has strong connections to the council of heralds (the dukes son is a member of the council) and highest levels of the chantry. She will also tell you that she is willing to do whatever it takes to get ahead in the game."

Hang what I just said. I didn't know about this at all. My approval rating with Vivienne was always to high.

[Nightdragon8]

Because he dies right after she gives it to him? I thought this was the general consensus in all forms of media and real life.

but again, why go so far as getting a Wyverns heart, when all you had to do was pick some deathroot?? She clearly had the skill to make a serious posion to kill anyone 10 times over.

 

The cost of trying to get a Wyverns heart vs deathroot, tells me she was trying to save him, not kill him.

 

Yes she used her husband's death to her advatange but thats just how it is in politics, you seriously don't think it doesn't work like that IRL?

[Kinsz]

Hang what I just said. I didn't know about this at all. My approval rating with Vivienne was always to high.

I did her quest with low approval in one of my playthroughs , she never said or even implied that she in fact killed the Duke, she says something along the lines of making the best out of a bad situation. She " uses " your heroic act to save the duke despite knowing that it might not work in order to secure Bastian's son and sister as the Inquisition's allies.

[Reznore57]

Bastien has been told that he was going to die no matter what by the Circle according to his sister so Vivienne didnt have to kill him , Also why would Vivienne ask you ( a potential witness ) to go with her if she wanted to kill him?

 

Well as long as Bastien is alive and not in a good shape , Vivienne is in trouble.She can't use the Duke influence directly , she's just his mistress and he's dying.

She lost her position in the Imperial court before the Breach,she still has the title but Morrigan is the one who's close to the Empress.

And she also has the very hollow title of Grand Enchanter.(with no circles..)

Basically everything Vivienne build is falling to pieces at the start of Inquisition.It's possible that's why she's so eager to join.

 

I'm pretty sure the woman do not want to be in the same place at the end , so she needs something to secure her position.

She wants the circle back (making her grand Enchanter title relevant again) , she gets rid of the Duke making it looks like she went to great length to save him (she doesn't even care if you bring her to slay the wyvern or not...)The Daughter is a grand cleric (good for her Divine plan) the son got his father role in the Council of Herald ( power over Orlais court , of course Vivienne disapprove if you put Briala on the throne , or even Gaspard.Those two don't care about the coucil).

And since she's part of the Inquisition , she wants the Inquisition to look good too .

 

It doesn't mean she didn't love the Duke , he was going to die anyway ...and maybe he knew what she was doing and he agreed.Who knows.But still Vivienne is very calculating.

[Kinsz]

Well as long as Bastien is alive and not in a good shape , Vivienne is in trouble.She can't use the Duke influence directly , she's just his mistress and he's dying.

She lost her position in the Imperial court before the Breach,she still has the title but Morrigan is the one who's close to the Empress.

And she also has the very hollow title of Grand Enchanter.(with no circles..)

Basically everything Vivienne build is falling to pieces at the start of Inquisition.It's possible that's why she's so eager to join.

 

I'm pretty sure the woman do not want to be in the same place at the end , so she needs something to secure her position.

She wants the circle back (making her grand Enchanter title relevant again) , she gets rid of the Duke making it looks like she went to great length to save him (she doesn't even care if you bring her to slay the wyvern or not...)The Daughter is a grand cleric (good for her Divine plan) the son got his father role in the Council of Herald ( power over Orlais court , of course Vivienne disapprove if you put Briala on the throne , or even Gaspard.Those two don't care about the coucil).

And since she's part of the Inquisition , she wants the Inquisition to look good too .

 

It doesn't mean she didn't love the Duke , he was going to die anyway ...and maybe he knew what she was doing and he agreed.Who knows.But still Vivienne is very calculating.

I know she is very calculating but until proven otherwise im sticking with the she did not kill him crowd, bring her the wrong wyvern heart he doesnt even wake up to talk and she clearly gets really upset about it and tells the Inquisitor that he " condemned a man you didnt even know to his death , now i know what kind of man you are " if she wanted to just kill him why would she be that upset with the Inquisitor ?

[Precursor Meta]

I did her quest with low approval in one of my playthroughs , she never said or even implied that she in fact killed the Duke, she says something along the lines of making the best out of a bad situation. She " uses " your heroic act to save the duke despite knowing that it might not work in order to secure Bastian's son and sister as the Inquisition's allies.

Ok well un-hang what I just said. So what is it? Did Viv expose the Duke to a hastey death or Save him. I was under the impression that she was trying to save him.

[Kinsz]

Ok well un-hang what I just said. So what is it? Did Viv expose the Duke to a hastey death or Save him. I was under the impression that she was trying to save him.

My bet is that she knew that the potion would not save the Duke but she made sure that before he dies the Inquisitor had a chance to wrap the sister and son around the Inquisition's little finger, one thing im certain of however  is that she didnt murder him or even wanted to.

[Nightdragon8]

I believe she does trick you. It was even foreshadowed by Blackwall. "The most poisonous snakes are often the most beautiful."
Her new card looks quite sinister too.
Everybody tells you not to trust Vivienne. She is playing the game. She's like Celene and all the other nobles with masks. She freely admits it!

Whether or not she cared for him at some point is up for debate. I believe she was at least fond of him. Her tears might have been a complete act, but if so it was very convincing.
However, she will do anything for personal gain. And that includes killing her lover. She could even have been the one who made him sick in the first place even though the potion notes suggest otherwise.
At the very least she's an opportunist. The man was dying anyway, so she sped things up and turned his death into her advantage.
It's shocking how nonchalant she is about it if you confront her. I don't think she's completely heartless. But she would betray anyone if it benefitted her. She's your friend only as long as you are useful to her. Several companions tell you that. She's not that different to Celene. She's a pro at the game. And she enjoys it.

I like her as a character and I even agree with some of her views. But I would never trust her and never put her in a position of real power. I might end up poisoned too...

so what you are saying is that, if she was going to kill her husband, she wanted to use the most expensive most lavish posion that could be made.... while that may be a good Orlisn way of doing things, its not he most practical, not to mention she would be risking a hell of alot getting the head of the Inquistion to give her the ingreadits.

 

Yes she is an opportunist, however I don't think she would kill him to be given the opportuniity, becuase I seriously don't think she needed to get her hands durty, the risk of what she gained by his death, wouldn't outweigh the risk of her getting caught killing her husband.

 

Personally after reading the about the potion the first time I thought... yea is the 'customor' you just wanting to stay looking young? But then after you find out that it was to give her husband then its like oh..

[Reznore57]

The man was going to die no matter what happens.

The wyvern hearts fake or no kills him.

I really think her and the Duke knew , and they planned it .

In one case she's distressed and pissed off , because things didn't go as smoothly as she hoped.

The Inquisitor doesn't like her or trust her enough , and tried to outplayed her in her most vulnerable moment (I believe she's quite cold , but she loved the Duke and his death wasn't easy).

It might also be a problem later if the Inquisitor doesn't want to play along with the whole "poor lady Vivienne was looking for a champion to save the Duke , so I went on and kill a legendary Wyvern.Sadly blablabla very touching" (very good story to tell at orlesians party)

Now if the Inquisitor says "Yeah she send me to get a special Wyvern Heart because she couldn't find any chevaliers hanging around , she didn't even care to come along to slay the beast , and she didn't told me anything about that whole Snow White Wyvern Heart being extremely fragile and looking at her notes , I notice by the time she would get the thing , it would be useless anyway so I just didn't bother and gave her a normal one.What don't look at me like that , she didn't even mention it was for the Bloody Duke!"

It just wouldn't impress the mourning family much.