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[Linkenski]

Just looking through some previous stuff, even Drew K who everyone begged to come back to Mass Effect largely reused his plots from KOTOR in Mass Effect 1, and Mac Walters then went on and on about Cerberus ever since they got promoted to having a large role in ME2... and now, I'm looking at a BTS video from Halo 4 and the new writer Christopher Schlerf is in it, talking about the concept of "the hero's journey" and about how when writing for a character who is already a hero, how do you give him a hero's journey?

 

Clip: http://youtu.be/mWfdPVAOv-I?t=56s

 

Transcript: Christopher Schlerf (Lead Writer, Halo 4): We had to create a situation that was gonna knock him [Master Chief] out of his comfort zone. The Master Chief has settled into this comfort zone of "being the hero", you know? It's interesting, early on, we talked about 'The Hero's Journey' and [the] "how do you have the hero's journey when he's already a hero".

 

...w...waaait, I'm getting some serious Deja Vu here. Flashback:

N7 Day Twitch Stream: http://youtu.be/7f_osFocAKk?t=28m32s

 

 

Transcript: Mac Walters (Creative Director, ME4): Yeah, and I think... you know, ah, er, I think it's even mentioned in the, uh, the bio in the blog online, if you wanna follow it up. But uh, one of the things we are wanting to do with, uh, sort of our protagonist; our Hero in this, um, game is... ah, hav e someone who is becoming the hero; have someone who... ahm, you know is, obviously, very skilled and capable... um, but maybe hasn't reached that legendary uhh... status that, say, Shepard was when we even started the Mass Effect trilogy. So, in order to do that we have to... make sure that [as Mike said], that person is equipped with the skills and the tools and everything necessary to survive; becoming a hero. Uh, that will of course mean, uh, ah, having people alongside you who can help you, um, but it, you know ... (WHATEVER)

 

I think Mac's paragraph in the ME4 dev profiling blog had an even more precise repetition of what Christopher Schlerf said in that H4 BTS documentary. Dear lord.

 

Guh, why do writers always stick to their... schtick. Mac and the rest of Bioware obviously heard Christopher Schlerf's sales-pitch, the one and same he used when talking with 343i, and ME4 is gonna fall into the same pitfalls Halo 4 fell into.

[Vazgen]

I've heard conflicting opinions on Halo 4 writing. Some say it's great, some say it sucks. I didn't play it and probably won't so I can't judge it. I'll judge ME:Next when it comes out

 

The ideas Schlerf and Mac talked about are different (at least I got that impression). The first says that they had to create some situation in the 4th game of the series with an established hero protagonist and show him a bit more human. The second says that they don't want to have an established hero like Shepard (Elysium/Akuze/Torfan) but they want to give him the means and skills to become one. The first seems more like Mass Effect 3. The second - more like Dragon Age Inquisition

[Linkenski]

Halo 4's story is just one of those where, while it may initially seem good to some I find that the longer it lingers the more I hate it, especially when you start analysing the individual bits of it. It has lots of conveniences and contrivances, the tone is flat and the expository writing is in the toilet aka. you don't know what the hell is going on half of the time because the game doesn't let you know.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I've heard conflicting opinions on Halo 4 writing. Some say it's great, some say it sucks. I didn't play it and probably won't so I can't judge it. I'll judge ME:Next when it comes out

 

The ideas Schlerf and Mac talked about are different (at least I got that impression). The first says that they had to create some situation in the 4th game of the series with an established hero protagonist and show him a bit more human. The second says that they don't want to have an established hero like Shepard (Elysium/Akuze/Torfan) but they want to give him the means and skills to become one. The first seems more like Mass Effect 3. The second - more like Dragon Age Inquisition

 

Halo 4 sort of depends on whether or not you read the expanded universe stuff. I didn't and had trouble following the plot which distracted me from everything else. It also didn't help that story bits were divided by segments of activating and shooting alien stuff. Glancing through the wiki and replaying the game I got a much better grasp on it and I find it... to be a perfectly decent story, especially as far as video games. It does have problems with pacing, plot-holes, and being confusing for anyone not familiar with the universe; but it was thematically consistent, albeit heavy handed, which is pretty freakin' unique. Also, at no point did I feel frustrated, which is always a plus.

[wolfhowwl]

I don't see the problem here.

[Cobwebmaster]

Well I think I mentioned somewhere before that I thought Mass Effect 3 was put together in a manner that can only be described as "indecent haste".  I think experienced gamers have come to expect a certain amount of "it could have been better if" when we are thinking of optimisation, but many of us had major issues with part(s) of the plot and storyline in this game (not mentioning the ending)

Come to think of it what in principal does anyone expect a hero to do? Well heroes usually end up dead don't they? But it is the manner of their achievements and passing (or not) that piques interest and is the potentially the  most fulfilling or disappointing aspect of the whole game. In Me 3 I thought the final chapter was like taking a soufflé out of the oven only to find that it hasn't risen to the occasion

Personally I am more happy with a Geralt the Witcher (of said game) character who starts off as basically a gun for hire and stays that way. "OK you freak! You've killed that monster and saved all our lives- BUT you used excessive violence so you are not the sort of person we want around in our town. Take a hike!" 

Anyway, I agree the writers of this game got stuck, and didn't effectively build on all the hard work in the previous games. As far as writing is concerned there isn't really too much you can do after having painted yourself into a corner with the Shepard stereotype. I think the problem is that there appeared to be a struggle between writing Shepard the semi senior (relatively junior) naval officer and ship's commander, and Shepard the hero and Spectre. The character ended up in limbo I thought as did a lot of the squadmates who weren't fully utilised as they were in ME2

[Fixers0]

Did Shepard have a legendary status at the start of the Mass Effect trilogy? I sure can't remember that.

 

For all I can remember Shepard was just a extremely competent marine that got nominated to be spectre mainly because they were Anderson's protogé at the time. The reputation option do give Shepard some merit but nothing to justify a legendary status.

[Vazgen]

Did Shepard have a legendary status at the start of the Mass Effect trilogy? I sure can't remember that.

 

For all I can remember Shepard was just a extremely competent marine that got nominated to be spectre mainly because they were Anderson's protogé at the time. The reputation option do give Shepard some merit but nothing to justify a legendary status.

Shepard is quite notorious at the start of ME1. Jenkins, Barla Von, Officer Eddie Lang - all know of Shepard's psychological profile. Nihlus is on the Normandy partly because of Shepard's achievements. Spectre nomination came from Shepard's actions on Elysium/Akuze/Torfan.

[MrFob]

Can't judge this guy or Halo 4 (as the last Halo I've played was the first one ages ago) but to be brutally honest, I don't even expect a good story from the next ME game anymore. I know it's sad but it's not something I associate the ME franchise with anymore.

I do hope for intriguing characters and nice smaller stories, surrounding those, like we have seen in ME2 and 3. That's already enough for me and it seems to be what BioWare focuses more on these days when constructing their games.

 

I am of course always ready to be pleasantly surprised but if the next ME can give some fun gameplay and some nice companions, that I guess I'll be happy enough because that's all I dare to ask for these days.

[Fixers0]

Shepard is quite notorious at the start of ME1. Jenkins, Barla Von, Officer Eddie Lang - all know of Shepard's psychological profile. Nihlus is on the Normandy partly because of Shepard's achievements. Spectre nomination came from Shepard's actions on Elysium/Akuze/Torfan.

 

Sure, Shepard's got some credit, but nowhere near what I would call legendary. Neither background options warrant such are reputation either, as they are mostly singular events that happend more than half a decade before the start of the game.

 

Furthermore, even though they were never mentioned by name, there were other potential human spectre candidates. The intro scene of Mass Effect highly implies that Shepard is chosen because Anderson is vouching for him, especially in the case of Ruthless or Sole Survivor, were Udina openly questions Shepard's candidacy.

[Vazgen]

Sure, Shepard's got some credit, but nowhere near what I would call legendary. Neither background options warrant such are reputation either, as they are mostly singular events that happend more than half a decade before the start of the game.

 

Furthermore, even though they were never mentioned by name, there were potential human spectre candidates. The intro scene of Mass Effect highly implies that Shepard is chosen because Anderson is vouching for him, especially in the case of Ruthless or Sole Survivor, were Udina openly questions Shepard's candidacy.

Well, he was not a galaxy savior back then, so not that much legendary. But he was clearly notorious within the Alliance, even Ashley knew about his actions. My point is that he was not a blank state character, he was a hero right from the start.

[Pierce Miller]

Shouldn't they have someone who's written RPGs before? Or is this just the final piece of proof we need to know that this series is just another shooter?

[InterrogationBear]

Shouldn't they have someone who's written RPGs before?

No. Most of the writers have already worked on Bioware RPGs and the other leads have a significant influence on the script as well. The Lead Writer is not a gameplay designer.

 

Besides, you won't find anyone on the market who has experience as a lead writer for a AAA-RPG.

[Display Name Owner]

I think that's just the nature of things OP. If a writer or artist or whoever does a particular thing well, they get known for doing it well, so they get hired specifically to do that particular thing. Same thing between companies and consumers, Bioware are known for a particular thing, that's what their fans look to them expecting.

 

Besides, the "hero's journey" is such a standard plot thing anyway. Every story is about some hero's journey. Getting irked by that is like getting irked that there's going to be an antagonist.

[Linkenski]

Can't judge this guy or Halo 4 (as the last Halo I've played was the first one ages ago) but to be brutally honest, I don't even expect a good story from the next ME game anymore. I know it's sad but it's not something I associate the ME franchise with anymore.
I do hope for intriguing characters and nice smaller stories, surrounding those, like we have seen in ME2 and 3. That's already enough for me and it seems to be what BioWare focuses more on these days when constructing their games.

I am of course always ready to be pleasantly surprised but if the next ME can give some fun gameplay and some nice companions, that I guess I'll be happy enough because that's all I dare to ask for these days.

I think we will at minimum get good squad mates and some nice gameplay, but while I don't associate Mass Effect with good storytelling anymore, either, I still hope now that it's gonna be a reboot, that the story can be as well written as ME1.

I'm just skeptical as heck because Halo 4 was just like ME3 in terms of overall writing quality. For all its great moments there are equally many parts that seemed like they hadn't been considered enough and too much nonsense when you dig into scenes.

[Kabooooom]

Halo 4 sort of depends on whether or not you read the expanded universe stuff. I didn't and had trouble following the plot which distracted me from everything else. It also didn't help that story bits were divided by segments of activating and shooting alien stuff. Glancing through the wiki and replaying the game I got a much better grasp on it and I find it... to be a perfectly decent story, especially as far as video games. It does have problems with pacing, plot-holes, and being confusing for anyone not familiar with the universe; but it was thematically consistent, albeit heavy handed, which is pretty freakin' unique. Also, at no point did I feel frustrated, which is always a plus.

This. Exactly. NOTE: This post will contain spoilers. I cant figure out how to black out the text from my crappy phone:

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The reason why many people hate Halo 4 is because they are unfamiliar with the expanded universe. They actually did a very good job working the lore in, but its difficult because the game started as basically a shallow Sci fi shooter but over time developed a deep lore that rivals Mass Effect's, to be honest. But, not being a game like Mass Effect, they had to somehow work it in, especially because the lore is going to factor heavily into the Reclaimer trilogy. We already know from Halo 4 that Chief has been imprinted with a Geas. Given 343's statements to him in the first game in which he mistakes Chief for the iso-Didact (aka Bornstellar Didact), it is highly probable that the Master Chief has been imprinted with the Geas of the Iso-Didact, and will essentially experience an awakening as the iso-didact in the coming two games. Initially, 343's statements were written off as the confused ramblings of a near-rampant AI. Prior to Halo 4, that was reasonable. But it seems as if the writers are retro-actively making his statements more significant, which is absolutely ingenius and AWESOME if you ask me.

The difficulty of making a story that deep and brilliant, with extended lore interwoven into a story which previously wasn't there is a huge task. They have to make it appeal to the CoD style fan base that likes to mindlessly shoot aliens, as well as the true Halo fans who are interested in analyzing the story.

With that in mind, they succeeded quite well with Halo 4. And when this will likely be a major plot twist of Halo 5 and 6, people will praise the writing.

[Iakus]

Sure, Shepard's got some credit, but nowhere near what I would call legendary. Neither background options warrant such are reputation either, as they are mostly singular events that happend more than half a decade before the start of the game.

 

I'd say Shepard had a degree of fame, though it was mainly limited to those with an interest in the Alliance military.  But no, he/she did not have a galactic rep yet.

[Reorte]

I think we will at minimum get good squad mates and some nice gameplay, but while I don't associate Mass Effect with good storytelling anymore, either, I still hope now that it's gonna be a reboot, that the story can be as well written as ME1.

I'm just skeptical as heck because Halo 4 was just like ME3 in terms of overall writing quality. For all its great moments there are equally many parts that seemed like they hadn't been considered enough and too much nonsense when you dig into scenes.

I think that that's the most I can hope for. Good small bits, the rest just a background to give them an excuse for something to do (so hopefully it won't come barging in and getting in the way).

[Alamar2078]

I don't particularly mind writers that reuse historically successful formulas when crafting a story.  As long as the writer brings a fresh perspective and creates an interesting, immersive environment that's internally consistent then I don't mind if the overall formula or even certain elements are recycled.  Then again that's just me but I doubt I'm alone in this particular stance.