24 réponses à ce sujet

[Rolenka]

I know they're not going to port in DA:O and DA2 tactics systems, but this is ridiculous.

[UnequalPenguin]

try running and jumping

[Ryzaki]

And I on the other hand wish Cassandra would STOP attacking the archers shooting at me and focus on the shades trying to eat my face. >_>

[Asakti]

Or incapable of having your mages run away if they are surrounded by enemies trying to turn them into wine.  The lack of tactics makes this game requires you to hand-hold for your other party members.

[Razir-Samus]

handholding to the point of extreme frustration because you are focusing on making them do what they should be doing if there was proper tactics/behaviors like the previous games... instead of actually watching your team fight, adding or changing tactics when you see a problem, seeing them evolve in real-time and genuinely enjoying the game

 

i really don't understand how a great many people around here looked past the many issues this game has, how frustrating it can be, how disjointed everything is... and simply decided the game was awesome, can you teach me to ignore the obvious problems that the game shipped with? i would so love to live in blissful ignorance but i just can't do it

[Efvie]

Zeroth of all, yes, the tactics blow goats.

 

First of all, you shouldn’t have your heavy tank go after archers. Your archers or a nimble rogue should do that job.

 

Second of all, have you tried setting the Follow/Defends right? If you set Cass to Defend you, she should also go for archers.

 

Personally, though, I have tended to set Cass to Follow Cass, which means she decides what she attacks—the other characters are set to Follow Cass, and player character to Defend Cass (for when I control somebody else). Before tough fights I might set one of the other two to Defend me.

 

There are other tricks, such as setting ranged/mage to Defend Self, which mostly keeps them at range.

[AlanC9]

i really don't understand how a great many people around here looked past the many issues this game has, how frustrating it can be, how disjointed everything is... and simply decided the game was awesome, can you teach me to ignore the obvious problems that the game shipped with?

Well, of course a player who played the previous games as if they were BG wouldn't really care too much about this issue; if you're micromanaging everybody anyway the fact that they can't micromanage themselves isn't really an issue.

[Razir-Samus]

Well, of course a player who played the previous games as if they were BG wouldn't really care too much about this issue; if you're micromanaging everybody anyway the fact that they can't micromanage themselves isn't really an issue.

there were limitations to what you could set your team to do automatically, definitely... but that's when the micromanagement came into play, for those moments that needed the special human touch so to speak, i think it added to the gameplay rather than detracted from it like it does on DA:I

 

are you just playing devils advocate when you suggest there were really people that played the previous titles like there was no tactics or AI and had to control everything themself?

[10K]

What we have here in Inquisition is not micromanaging, This is babysitting at its finest. I shouldn't have to tell my ranged characters over and over to step away from the guy who's slapping them in the face, they should be intelligent enough to do that simple task on their own. Not only that, but they use skills that are not applicable in certain situations. This really ticks me off; and yes I know I can turn off those certain skills for certain battles I'm in. But who wants to do that over and over? I want to spend more time in game and less in menus. This is why I liked Origins and DA2 tactic lists. I can tell the AI what needed to be done in specific situations and didn't have to worry about them doing dumb crap. Micromanaging was something I used on challenging fights in Origins and DA2; not every single trash mob should have to need micromanaging. That just makes the game feel tedious. What we got is simply babysitting, not micromanaging.  

[Asakti]

...Half my party just died because my fighters felt it was absolutely necessary to run off to kill a wolf instead of the Arcane Horror in front of them.  Seriously, unless I keep switching to tactical mode to order them around, the party doesn't do anything intelligently.  And I shouldn't be forced to babysit my party to avoid them doing ridiculous crap like this.

[Efvie]

...Half my party just died because my fighters felt it was absolutely necessary to run off to kill a wolf instead of the Arcane Horror in front of them.  Seriously, unless I keep switching to tactical mode to order them around, the party doesn't do anything intelligently.  And I shouldn't be forced to babysit my party to avoid them doing ridiculous crap like this.

 

Use Attack My Target when you really want something down.

 

Look, it sucks, but you are making it even harder for yourself than it really is.

[chagdoo]

Do you think it will be added in a later patch?

[TEWR]

Or incapable of having your mages run away if they are surrounded by enemies trying to turn them into wine.  The lack of tactics makes this game requires you to hand-hold for your other party members.

 

Have them take Fade Step and set it to preferred. That gets them to use it to run away from an attack.

[HozzMidnight]

It is very frustrating they gave us such a shitty tactics/behavior system.  The enemy AI seems more intelligent than my party.  Their rogues understand flanking, mine don't.  Their archers and mages try to get out of melee range, mine don't.  Their tanks position better and use charging bull better.  

 

This is an action game with RPG elements.

[LaughingBanana]

Zeroth of all, yes, the tactics blow goats.

 

First of all, you shouldn’t have your heavy tank go after archers. Your archers or a nimble rogue should do that job.

 

Second of all, have you tried setting the Follow/Defends right? If you set Cass to Defend you, she should also go for archers.

 

Personally, though, I have tended to set Cass to Follow Cass, which means she decides what she attacks—the other characters are set to Follow Cass, and player character to Defend Cass (for when I control somebody else). Before tough fights I might set one of the other two to Defend me.

 

There are other tricks, such as setting ranged/mage to Defend Self, which mostly keeps them at range.

 

Having Cass/a tank Defend a character will often make her/that tank not attacking anything and just standing idle, even when there's enemies nearby, if the said character she's/the tank's following is not at close enough proximity with the said enemies--which, of course, defeats the entire purpose of fragile character should stay away from huge enemies.

 

The problem is the follow [character] thing used with a tank is that tank will *always* target *any* target your character is targeting, ignoring everything else. So, if we're doing what you told us, let's just say the Inquisitor is a rogue archer, so of course the logical thing to do is to those long range enemies first, right? But if you do so, your tank will make a beeline towards those long range enemies, *ignoring* the brutes that make a beeline towards *you*.

 

You need to constantly use tactical camera to fix this issue, and it *can* be a hassle.

[SpiritMuse]

Having Cass/a tank Defend a character will often make her/that tank not attacking anything and just standing idle, even when there's enemies nearby, if the said character she's/the tank's following is not at close enough proximity with the said enemies--which, of course, defeats the entire purpose of fragile character should stay away from huge enemies.
 
The problem is the follow [character] thing used with a tank is that tank will *always* target *any* target your character is targeting, ignoring everything else. So, if we're doing what you told us, let's just say the Inquisitor is a rogue archer, so of course the logical thing to do is to those long range enemies first, right? But if you do so, your tank will make a beeline towards those long range enemies, *ignoring* the brutes that make a beeline towards *you*.
 
You need to constantly use tactical camera to fix this issue, and it *can* be a hassle.

That why you set the tank to follow herself, so she doesn't constantly abandon the target she's currently tanking.

I do agree that the AI isn't always very "I". My ranged characters suck at staying at range. More often than not archer Sera would jump into melee and try to shoot everything point blank and get herself killed as a result. On casual.

[brzoz]

i want the perfect result, i don't want to run back to get bloody health potions every fight. i see a problem every time npc decides it's a good idea to charge in the middle of a hostile group while i'm AoE-ing it. i see a problem when npcs stand in the fire or try to kill harder enemies rather than cc them and focus on more fragile trash. it's tiresome and frustrating.

 

some people like to charge in with BFG and kill everything in mashing-buttons rage. others want to plan moves for 20 minutes, then unpause, watching the team winning battle while drinking coffee and smoking a cig.

 

i don't care about bashing enemies with a really hard stick. i want to play smart.

[AlanC9]

are you just playing devils advocate when you suggest there were really people that played the previous titles like there was no tactics or AI and had to control everything themself?

No, I'm not. Back in the day that was the only way to play a party-based game, and some of us still prefer it. They're typically the ones who stay in tactical mode the whole time.

[Rolenka]

Second of all, have you tried setting the Follow/Defends right? If you set Cass to Defend you, she should also go for archers.

 

If she is set to defend, she will not run to attack an archer who is at range. She may use a ranged taunt, but she will never run out of defending range.

 

 

What we have here in Inquisition is not micromanaging, This is babysitting at its finest. I shouldn't have to tell my ranged characters over and over to step away from the guy who's slapping them in the face, they should be intelligent enough to do that simple task on their own. Not only that, but they use skills that are not applicable in certain situations.

 

In previous games, we could set a rogue to use a stun, agro reducer, or escape ability and also have a warrior run over to that enemy, bash it with a shield and taunt.
 

[In Exile]

Well, of course a player who played the previous games as if they were BG wouldn't really care too much about this issue; if you're micromanaging everybody anyway the fact that they can't micromanage themselves isn't really an issue.

That's probably why my main complaint about the AI is that there's no easy way to hold position.

[MapleJar]

While I also miss the more detailed tactics system from the previous two games, here is what I've found works best for me in DAI.

 

I set each of my party members to defend themselves. Also, there are abilities I know the AI will never use properly, so I've used an amulet to respec everyone. I don't take abilities that they don't use well if I can help it. If I have to in order to get another ability I want, then the unwanted abilities are of course disabled. My tanks have their guard generating abilities set to preferred, and spellcasters always have barrier as preferred. I've crafted armor pieces for my melee members that give guard every time they get hit as well.

 

At the start of each fight, I go into tac cam mode and pick each party member's initial target. On trash mob fights, from there I just let the combat play out and it usually works out well without me having to pause again. The ranged party members stay at range, and the melee tanks / DPS do their jobs properly. In tougher fights, I'm pausing to assign targets as mobs die periodically as well. Not because of necessity, necessarily, but because there are usually targets I prefer die first (spellcasters, archers).

 

Since I started doing all of this, I've had no problems with combat getting out of hand. I play on normal, always, so your mileage may vary.

[movieguyabw]

i want the perfect result, i don't want to run back to get bloody health potions every fight. i see a problem every time npc decides it's a good idea to charge in the middle of a hostile group while i'm AoE-ing it. i see a problem when npcs stand in the fire or try to kill harder enemies rather than cc them and focus on more fragile trash. it's tiresome and frustrating.

 

some people like to charge in with BFG and kill everything in mashing-buttons rage. others want to plan moves for 20 minutes, then unpause, watching the team winning battle while drinking coffee and smoking a cig.

 

i don't care about bashing enemies with a really hard stick. i want to play smart.

 

Take the party off of "Follow [controlled character]" and put them on following themselves.  That might prevent them from rushing enemies who you are targeting with an AoE attack.

 

Change the "heal at x%" threshold to something like 20.  Ever since I made this change, I've found my potions last a lot longer than before.  I think by default it's set to 30%, but the extra 10% buffer seems to make a lot of difference.

 

Set party tactics so that all of their defensive abilities are "preferred" and everything else is set to "active".  Then change it so that they only reserve about 10% of their stamina.  If an enemy is attacking them, they'll prioritize abilities which will help avoid or minimize damage; and they'll be able to use abilities a lot more often than they do by default.

 

Something else - if they have abilities that put enemies to sleep, I would recommend disabling those on the tactics page.  Party members will just stand there if the only enemy left is asleep.

 

Hope this helps somewhat. 

[MapleJar]

Take the party off of "Follow [controlled character]" and put them on following themselves.  That might prevent them from rushing enemies who you are targeting with an AoE attack.

 

Change the "heal at x%" threshold to something like 20.  Ever since I made this change, I've found my potions last a lot longer than before.  I think by default it's set to 30%, but the extra 10% buffer seems to make a lot of difference.

 

Set party tactics so that all of their defensive abilities are "preferred" and everything else is set to "active".  Then change it so that they only reserve about 10% of their stamina.  If an enemy is attacking them, they'll prioritize abilities which will help avoid or minimize damage; and they'll be able to use abilities a lot more often than they do by default.

 

Something else - if they have abilities that put enemies to sleep, I would recommend disabling those on the tactics page.  Party members will just stand there if the only enemy left is asleep.

 

Hope this helps somewhat. 

 

I agree with all of this. You can even set the mana/stamina threshold lower - I have everyone set to reserve 0%. I don't see a need to reserve mana/stamina in this game since we don't have the plethora of useful sustained abilities that we had in the previous games.

 

As far as the healing potion settings are concerned - I have it set so that my party uses none of the potions automatically. My favorite class to play is a healer, unfortunately for this game, but what I do to make myself feel somewhat like a healer is I manually direct the use of the healing pots myself. I watch everyone's health, and when they get low I select them and have them use a pot. (Unless Barrier or a healing grenade wouldn't be useful or isn't available.) So, for me, it's like I've healed them.

 

Is this a replacement for having actual healers, and a creation tree, in the game? NO - TIMES A BILLION NO! (glares at Bioware for making such a design choice in a fantasy RPG.) But I've tried to adapt to the random, lunatic fringed whims of the DAI design team rather than rage against them forever. Mind you, I raged at first, for a bit, and then decided to adapt because I found myself enjoying them game despite these "Let's do things different for absolutely no reason, or in effort to make any sense whatsoever, other than because we can" design situations. Anyway, I agree that the game plays better when the potion threshold is set lower than the default - as low as you are comfortable with.

[mutantspicy]

Didn't read through the thread.  But a question.

 

Why you want Cassandra to take out an archer?  Wouldn't that be better suited for Cole?

 

I think what you are asking for is simply achieved with one further addition to the Behavior menu. 

 

Set Preferred Target Type;  Heavy, Medium, Light, All.

 

I think the AI is actually pretty good in this game, but this little feature would fix a lot. IMO