22 réponses à ce sujet

[bholland]

Hi everyone, 

 

I love the rogue class. I have always loved the rogue class. I love it so much that I am going to attempt to solo the game on nightmare with a dual wield/archer depending on how difficult it gets. 

 

I am also going tempest since I am going to prove that tempest is by far the strongest rogue class in the game. Seriously, time stop is so overpowered with no CD on deathblow means I was doing almost 70k damage in 20 seconds.

 

I have only one huge concern. I think I can get through most of the game without much of a problem until I hit the last battle in Haven.  Even then, it is the last guy in the last battle. When I did my nightmare run I ended up kiting with Cass (sounds like an NPR special) while I left someone with low to no agro turning the catapult. I won't have that option and I have no idea how to avoid it. Any suggestions? This might be the only fight which I actually just pass on, bring a full party, and throw the game on easy. I seriously hate this fight. It is about as OP as fighting 4 terror demons. Actually, on that front I have very little idea how to handle them either. Simultaneous knockdown mixed with instant knockdown teleportation leaves me at a loss as to how to even attempt to fight them. I suppose I will figure that out as well. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. 

 

In addition, there are other parts of the game which cannot be soloed, mostly dealing with mage walls. Some major side quests depend on your ability to take down a mage wall. For those quests I assume that others who have done this bring along a mage. Do others do this on their solo runs? Oh also, I will do side quests for my friends. I will bring them along for their side quests and obviously anyone we meet between camp the location. 

 

My class is going to be male dwarf DW rogue with tempest spec. I chose dwarf for the 25% magic reduction which is really nice to have in nightmare. I plan on getting all of the shards to get another 25% damage reduction for ice, fire, and spirit... around that order. That will give me a whopping 50% elemental reduction to everything but lightning which isn't run into that much. Gear creation is vital. Anything which gives me CD reduction and guard on hit is going to be highly valued. I welcome any other tips or suggestions. Also, if there is any interest, I am might post a livestream on the ps4 network once I get everything more or less sorted out. 

[kstarler]

Please ignore me, I totally missed that this is a solo run.

[szemyq]

I am currently on my nm solo dw run. Terror demons can **** you up hard but they are managable. I closed rifts that spawned 3 of them. You can either abuse upgraded FA (just need to get out of their slowing aoe fast enough) or burst them down really quick. I am just doing as much in hinterlands as possible, since i am also afraid of the envy demon and the trebuchet battle so i cant give you any tips yet. I havent decided yet if i want to bring a mage to pick up the runes but will first try it without them.

[Rynas]

I have never attempted that fight solo (which tbh is probably the hardest fight in the game on Nightmare, except maybe for the very first Pride Demon fight on a non-rogue).  But if I did, I'd probably invest in upgraded Knockout Powder.  Don't know if the main guy (Knight-Captain Denam or w/e) is vulnerable to Knockout Powder, but if he is, it should be pretty easy to pick off the adds one-by-one.

 

Once he's alone, it should be just like any other Behemoth fight, which is not hard once you're able to anticipate that big, slow knockdown attack.

 

[Edit] Also, I assume you know this already, but you can pick up T2 schematics from Val Royeaux and mine T2 metals in Fallow Mire (maybe Storm Coast, too) without any combat at all.  Those make a huge difference.

[bholland]

Oh KO powder! Oh no, he is immune to any disabling effect. 

 

The pride demon you are not suppose to fight. All you have to do is run around, have Cass taunt off the agro and when no one is looking, close the rift. The whole point of that fight is to literally let everyone die except for Cass (who I swear is invulnerable) let the archers do their thing, and you close down the rift. 

 

Thanks for the tips about the T2 metals. I can't remember which ones are T2. I don't think Storm Coast has and actually the Fallow Mire doesn't either. Hinterlands does have obsidian though. Lazurite is extremely common with very easy access in the western front or whatever it is called. 

 

See, there is a trick to this though. The sooner I can get frost potion and fire potion and time stop the easier the game will be. Frost with terror demons is dead demons. The Heaven fight though... that I am really pondering. I mean, I suppose I could really be a jerk and switch to ranged then just stealth out of range, fire stealth and kite. I think for me the question really becomes is that worth it? I mean, if I can do all but the hardest fight in the game on nightmare, is that truly enough or do I have to figure out a way to break the game to get what I would consider victory?

[szemyq]

You can farm t2 metal in forbidden oasis without fighting as a rogue - paragon luster.

[Rynas]

Actually, I think you're right about Fallow Mire metals - was thinking it had Paragon's Luster, but I may have been confusing it with Blue Vitriol.  The undead and humanoid mobs there do drop Ring Velvet, which is T2 (and the Fade-Touched version is a 10% Hidden Blades - that won't help you before Skyhold though).  In any case, T2 schematics with T1 metals are still a huge upgrade over the crap drops you get.

 

Yes, once you get Frost and upgraded Lightning, you can solo pretty much anything if you strategize well.  It gets a bit tedious, actually.  Fire I don't find nearly as useful solo, because you're exposed long enough that you can die.  Popping Fire and spamming Flank Attack is pretty fun, though.

 

The Pride Demon fight is easy on a rogue because stealth drops aggro from the adds.  As a non-rogue, it's almost impossible to drop aggro, and they interrupt your rift disruption, so I end up having to kill them.  Which makes the fight a lot worse.  The companion AI is just infuriating on that fight, even when you turn it off.

[bholland]

Oh yea! So between The western thing and the forbidden oasis, I should have plenty of T2 metals even without fighting. Sounds like my first places to unlock are going to be val-rioux, western front, and the oasis in that order. From there, I should have enough money to get the plans. Also, you can get T2 armor plans which might be a bit important as well. I think my first goal will be to unlock these areas, get decent daggers, and get to Skyhold ASAP to unlock specialties. 

 

Heh. I just beat the pride demon. Again, a rather trivial fight as long as you don't engage. When adds pop, pop stealth and sit back and watch. Stay out the laser whips. Let Cass do her thing. Watch Solas die a horrible horrible death and every chance you get, close the rift. That closure kills all adds and destroys the armor and damages. 

 

I loved the fire for spamming deathblow. 1 spam with two hits both critting with t3 gear does 7500 each. As a level 20, I murdered a level 14 dragon in under two minutes. I find it really useful when taking out an elite quickly. I saved them for last and then blasted them. It was so much fun. It does leave you vulnerable but 8-10 seconds of deathblow should murder everything apart from dragons. I think it might even take down an Alpha. 

[Ou_Deis]

Have you tried the Sabotage tree, or perhaps respeccing to it for battles where DW melee attacks aren't feasible? Throwing Knives and/or poison and Toxic Cloud (with their low burst damage) might take a lot longer, but maybe you wouldn't die?....

[bholland]

So half the problem with this particular game is that there are several incredibly useful abilities for rogues to have, especially if you spec tempest. There are too many actually. What I mean by this is that there are 4 Double Daggers abilities (Flank Attack, Twin Fangs, Parry, Death Blow) and 4 really useful tempest abilities, essentially the whole tree. This does not leave much room for anything else. It is unfortunate to try to make the choice between stealth and parry or something along those lines. That said, the passives in the sabotage tree are awesome. Stamina on a crit which should be every 3rd hit and those crits sunder and that sunder lasts 25% longer? Those are amazing passives. Perhaps not the 25% longer bit as you should be sundering every hit but basically the right hand side passives are well worth getting. Early game is basically spent getting the Dual Wield tree set up. After that there are the passives in Sabotage but everything basically shifts when you get tempest to get ice and fire, at least, with the focus ability.  

 

The whole not dying a lot bit I don't know is all that avoidable. Stealth gets you out of almost any situation. The flank attack passive gets you another stealth. So far, I am level 5, Flank + stealth is totally broken. The stealth doesn't wear off before the CD so basically I just get hit once maybe when I pop out of stealth, attack, and pop back into stealth. I actually tried to parry but it seems like the timing is off on several attacks so I still get hit hard. I am dubious if parry is even worth taking, but for now I think I need it. BTW, the only useful stealth skill is Evasion. Shadow Strike would be useful but you don't have any slots for it. KO powder suffers the same fate. So basically Stealth + Lost in Shadows + Evasion are the only useful skills for the Shadow tree. 

 

Even the left hand side of the Dual Wield is useless. Who cares if I do more damage when their health is lower than mine? That is so random and you cannot plan on that working. Unforgiving Chain is hilarious since you should have a crit in the 30-50% range mid to end game. That isn't a joke either. If you did everything correctly, every 2 or 3 hits should be a crit. For spinning blades, why do I want to drive them back? I want them to come to me and then whack them really hard.

 

Basically, the build sort of builds itself. I rely heavily on the very useful passives of shadow and sabotage and the incredibly useful tempest tree. The dying bit is unavoidable. I will let you know some tricks when I play more of not dying on certain enemies but terrors are going to destroy. I don't see a way around that one. Also, early game royally sucks on nightmare. It is really quite hard. Towards midgame, if I am playing well, it should become a bit more balanced. End game I am guessing is going to be a joke. 

 

BTW, I am soloing the whole game essentially to show that this can be done by a rogue. I find the KE (the overwhelmingly favored solo to date) to be extremely boring and hugly underpowered early game. I also tried out a KE on nightmare and it didn't fare badly but it wasn't a god. Any time I have seen massive damage dealt by a KE it has always been against guard or barrier. That is really nice when bringing down guard and a barrier but I was dealing 150 damage regular with a rogue in the prologue. I regularly hit for about 50 with the mage. Basically, I am testing to see really which one dominates all stages, early mid and late game. My bet is the rogue but both are really squishy and both could potentially have ranged. To make the rogue a bit more survivable, I would switch to a stealth ranged combination. Given what I have seen so far, this should be totally broken as well. 

[Rynas]

I don't think anyone gets good use out of Parry.  Neat idea, crap in practice.

 

Ambush (50% armor piercing within 6 secs of stealth) is something I like to take from the Subterfuge tree.

 

Honestly, I haven't made it a mission to solo Nightmare on my Tempest, but did a lot just to see if it could be done.  She cleared the first three camps in Emprise (level 16 enemies) at level 13, and today soloed the Sandy Howler at level 19.  I don't think there's much at this point that she couldn't solo if she wanted to, but it gets kind of tedious and repetitive after a while.  That's probably true of any solo run.

[Jackal19851111]

I'll be impressed if you can solo this with a 2H warrior or a mage that isn't a Knight-Enchanter

[bholland]

I think you can solo with either but it is very very hard. Actually, I know you can with a 2 handed but you sort of have to spec it champion and go vanguard + a very select few attributes from the two handed tree. BTW, this, I think, is a very good way to run with Iron Bull on nightmare. If you don't spec him vanguard on nightmare he is dead in the first few hits of the fight. 

 

As for mages... I personally loved the mage in DA:O, sort of felt the mage was decent in DA2 and really don't like the mage in DA:I. For me, the whole point of a mage is to have access to tons of skills and abilities with a wide range of spells. This basically becomes access to 8 abilities and a few of them are great. The KE is actually really though to play. I don't know who finds that class particularly easy on nightmare. The survivability is high but I don't see it any more survivable than a champion vanguard sword and board. I also find damage on the lower side, particularly with 3 abilities taking up valuable spots. The sword does great damage against guard and nothing really against health. Fade walk does decent damage sort of but it is intermittent. I don't know. I don't really see the appeal with mages on this game. 

 

Actually, the boring aspect is a problem. I think it is directly tied to being severely limited in active abilities. Rynas, you are right about parry. It needs some serious work mostly focusing on it being an instant trigger ability with a much longer active time. There are much better abilities. I realized that I am going to get hit and having parry means I get hit after attempting to not get hit, even when I should have parried. It is really a shame. That could have been a really fun ability and maybe someone can make it work but that is not me.  

 

I will look into Ambush. That does sound like fun. That might replace stealth. 

[Selea]

For spinning blades, why do I want to drive them back? I want them to come to me and then whack them really hard.

The "driving them back" doesn't mean that they will run away (as in panicked or feared) only that when you circle the targets will lose ground so you can continue circling. The animation is the character going in full circles and targets losing ground till at the end they get knocked back (in fact the circling stops if the target doesn't lose ground, as in he parries or blocks with a shield the attack; for this the skill is better used from a flank).

Spinning Blades can be very powerful or not worth it depending on the build. For example out of stealth with an Assassin's build (all crits) it is very powerful as it is a crit for every hit (plus flanking if you attack from the back as you should) and every hit restores stamina.

[szemyq]

After getting used to it, parry actually does what it should. It activates instant with a rather small parrywindow. But my biggest concern about it is the low damage so it doesnt prove too useful against not hard hitting mobs. But it turned out to be useful against hard hitting mobs like bears or 2 handers in a solo run. But beware some attacks (bearstomp e.g.) are not parryable. If you go with a party you should not have aggro in the first place so its hardly worth the point in a normal run.

[bholland]

It doesn't not activate instantly for me. I see the person starting their swing, it is a fast attack, hit parry, and get hit for 150 damage. This is easily repeatable. Everyone once in a while, I would do exactly the same thing and it would parry. Again, if it is decent for some people to use, awesome. I found it borderline useless mostly because despite trying very hard to make it work, my timing was always just a little off.... well that or I got hit by 3 other people at the same time. If that happens, more often than not, I died. So I got use to just not having it. Parry is actually useless once you get the ice flask. Just about everything freezes. If it doesn't freeze, stealth and attack from behind. 

 

This run has shown some very interesting problems with the game though. Whips are amazingly overpowered. They do 10% of my health every hit from ranged. Typically I find them in packs of 3 or 4. Their attacks are almost unavoidable. I don't have evade dodge yet. Once you get within melee rage, they move and pop a very weak barrier. This combination of abilities has actually killed me more than I would have every imagined. Also, you are tracked from stealth. I am finding it almost impossible to get a back shot once enemies are aware of me, even being in stealth. I see them following me but not attacking. The spinning knife wielders are also brutal. 2 or 3 hits and I am down 90% health. 

 

I also will say that the game becomes much much easier when you get death blow. That way you end up having 3 attacks and stealth which is far more powerful than 2 attacks and stealth. More later today. 

[bholland]

Okay. So I made it to the last battle for Haven and I ended up switching it to casual, not really because I couldn't do it but it would have taken about 3 or 4 hours and I would get exceedingly bored. It is actually a really trivial battle if you basically just use shadow strike and, when you have to heal, you pop stealth. The last boss in particular would require lots of kiting and a fair amount of luck but really, it would just be stealth, wait, twin strike, shadow strike, wait, shadow strike, twin strike, stealth and basically just repeat that combination over and over and over. If you end up getting swarmed, then you want to take out any ranged first and just kite them around. Overall, that fight is far more boring than hard. Unfortunately, going toe to toe with templars will get you killed as a rogue. I also didn't realize that the Oasis is opened before the Western Approach... far before evidently. You can also pick up Paragons Luster as someone said. It is quite easy to do so. I deal twin 750's on a crit as a level 8. 

 

I also have come across the Alphas and other hard hitting two handed beasts with guard. They are really easy to beat but very very boring. Basically, you have to use the same strategy described above. Eventually they do die and for those who get bored very easily, I do not recommend this. Actually, I decided for these specific fights, I will either ignore them or just bring a tank. They go much much faster when you don't have agro on your rogue. Again, it is well worth repeating, that this is easy to do but I don't have the patience for it. I did it now 3 times and each fight took about 45 minutes. A good 30 of those minutes was waiting for all of the CDs to reset and for stamina to regenerate. 

 

BTW, I was reading about how some people don't like Deathblow because it "doesn't do enough damage" and to that I say hah. Deathblow is awesome. I will eventually try out spinning blades but 2 useless passives and 2 points to make it viable does not sound reasonable, even if the ability is damn near godly, which it doesn't like it is. 

 

Evasion, Evade, and Ambush are all worth taking. The only problem is how many abilities you want to have available. It is possible that Evade will make it into the lineup but I doubt it. Stealth is so important with a solo run that I don't see much replacing it. Getting rid of a flask is a huge mistake and 1000 cuts is possibly the best focus spender in the game. It would basically have to replace shadow strike but that is replacing another stealth. It is possible though, that it will win out. The other extremely useful ability for shadow strike though, is that if you have the fire flask on, you can get to anywhere on the map in record time, though I suppose the same would be true for evade. We will see. 

[Rynas]

Heh, yeah, the main advantage of Tempest is that it makes fights a little less tedious.  Also gives you more options.

 

I never had much luck with Spinning Blades, because the animation is really long and it's very easy to interrupt.  It was almost always interrupted when I was soloing with it, and it got me killed more than once.  Also, not a detonator = inferior, esp. with FoF.

 

I don't know anyone who says Deathblow is not enough damage.  It's just that the bug really limits it.  I still run with it sometimes anyway, though.

 

What do you mean about Shadow Strike and "getting anywhere on the map in record time?"  Or do you mean Flank Attack?

[Mimicry]

 Having completed a nightmare solo with a melee rogue, allow me to answer a few questions and share some pointers:

 

 1. Haven can be tough, but if you do the right amount of prep work it can also be incredibly easy. It's all about having upgraded gear and the right spec that allows burst dps from stealth followed by restealth. The final boss is indeed immune to being asleep, but if you have enough armor his attacks tickle.

 2. You can break magic barriers by attacking them with weapons containing appropriate elemental runes - it takes quite a bit longer than simply bringing a mage with his AI turned off, but if you're that much of a purist it can be done.

 3. Terror demons (and any other kind really) are a joke with enough magic resistance, which if you're playing as a dwarf rogue you should have no problem getting. I played as Qunari and KO powder does the trick nicely.

 4. As long as you keep upgrading your gear and you rely on burst dps with KO CC you can easily beat the game even without picking a specialization. Tempest is completely broken and will likely ruin your enjoyment of the game (if you seek a challenge) - between Time stop, 85% damage reduction and the ability to spam Thousand Cuts or Mark of the Rift without expanding Focus, it's utterly ridiculous and completely unnecessary.

 

 Hope that was helpful and good luck on your playthrough.

[Kilgrave]

After finishing the game in nightmare difficulty with a group I want to try to solo it with a dw rogue. Where would you recommend to put the first points (abilities and inquisitor perks) in?

[Biotic Flash Kick]

I'll be impressed if you can solo this with a 2H warrior or a mage that isn't a Knight-Enchanter

2 hand Champion is very doable. The right side of the tree is just amazing. If you die you  get 6 seconds of invincibility and you have walking fortress?

Rift Mage and Necro are alot of kiting. So much kiting. Fade step is basically your go to skill. Then you get something like static cage/ice mine or pull of the abyss and then it becomes very easy. 

[ashwind]

I'll be impressed if you can solo this with a 2H warrior or a mage that isn't a Knight-Enchanter

 

You should add a 2H Warrior that is not a Champion. There are some specific parts of the game that makes soloing very frustrating but overall you can run around killing everything even multiple giants, dragons etc.

 

Not to mention those Walking fortress procs. A Bull Rush into a bunch of enemies almost guarantee 5sec of Walking Fortress most of the time.   

[Biotic Flash Kick]

You should add a 2H Warrior that is not a Champion. There are some specific parts of the game that makes soloing very frustrating but overall you can run around killing everything even multiple giants, dragons etc.

 

Not to mention those Walking fortress procs. A Bull Rush into a bunch of enemies almost guarantee 5sec of Walking Fortress most of the time.   

Now that is a real nightmare. Reaver would be such high risk unless you just use devour and the passives and really play safe and don't start getting hit over and over. 

 

Templar would be my second choice because it's anti demon and can help clear rifts.