329 réponses à ce sujet

[bEVEsthda]

I played and enjoyed DA:O (actually, I have a game going on a thirdly purchased DA:O game - Steam this time). One of my favorite games ever. And I also like DA:I. How?

Well it's like this:

 

I don't play these games for the combat. Definitely not. I like the dread of danger, so I do play on hard, but the actual combat gameplay doesn't give me much enjoyment apart from the relief and satisfaction from success.

So the fact that PC-interface combat is so painfully awkward on DA:I is irrelevant. Actually, if it's not irrelevant, it's maybe even a sort of plus, since it increases the dread.

 

While I do enjoy the explicit and elaborate reaction of the DA:O, towards my character, my kind of role-play doesn't depend on that. I'm a longtime veteran of TES games, which I love. So I really don't see much difference between situations like hunting 10 rams and dealing with a demon to keep Conner alive. Both are quests I choose to do in order to strengthen my position and enhance my odds of survival. They are completely symmetric to me. But to many here, the 10 rams quest is a scorned "fetch-quest". Apparently just because they don't get movies elaborating a very explicit description of the situation and consequences and reaction to the choice. I don't see any other difference between the situations or consequences. As I said, to me they are symmetrical. And that's how I role-play TES, as well.

 

I do think that DA:O, all in all, maybe is a better game, at least to me. But the main reason for that is the silent protagonist. I really dislike the dialogue wheel and voiced protagonist just as much as ever. I do concede though, that it's better done than in DA2.

 

But it's long been clear that we won't get another DA:O. I don't even understand how they would be able to do it? There's not many left who understands that kind of gameplay or aesthetics. The team of current developers grew up with consoles, Diablo, Dungeon Siege, FF and other jrpgs.

That we won't get a sequel to DA:O is tragic. But that's how it is. I hated and was bitter during DA2. Now it's water under the bridge. So I take what I can get and try to enjoy it. It's been easy so far. I do agree with the developers on many of the choices they have made, no healing spells - good, gameplay depicting wider responsibility for logistics, inquisition and party - good.

 

But I think, for the future, that the silk gloves have to come off regarding discussing the voiced protagonist. That situation is close to unacceptable for me. And if they can make it a choice between two different, it would also be so simple to make a third silent voice. And if they can do subtitles for other's dialogue lines, they can dam well display mine as well. It's all just excuses which I do not much accept.

[RedWulfi]

How about you shut up? People like different things, there is never going to be another game like DAO so get use to that.

I like all 3 games, they are all different and that is not a bad thing.

[Farangbaa]

I played and enjoyed DA:O (actually, I have a game going on a thirdly purchased DA:O game - Steam this time). One of my favorite games ever. And I also like DA:I. How?

Well it's like this:

 

I don't play these games for the combat. Definitely not. I like the dread of danger, so I do play on hard, but the actual combat gameplay doesn't give me much enjoyment apart from the relief and satisfaction from success.

So the fact that PC-interface combat is so painfully awkward on DA:I is irrelevant. Actually, if it's not irrelevant, it's maybe even a sort of plus, since it increases the dread.

 

While I do enjoy the explicit and elaborate reaction of the DA:O, towards my character, my kind of role-play doesn't depend on that. I'm a longtime veteran of TES games, which I love. So I really don't see much difference between situations like hunting 10 rams and dealing with a demon to keep Conner alive. Both are quests I choose to do in order to strengthen my position and enhance my odds of survival. They are completely symmetric to me. But to many here, the 10 rams quest is a scorned "fetch-quest". Apparently just because they don't get movies elaborating a very explicit description of the situation and consequences and reaction to the choice. I don't see any other difference between the situations or consequences. As I said, to me they are symmetrical. And that's how I role-play TES, as well.

 

I do think that DA:O, all in all, maybe is a better game, at least to me. But the main reason for that is the silent protagonist. I really dislike the dialogue wheel and voiced protagonist just as much as ever. I do concede though, that it's better done than in DA2.

 

But it's long been clear that we won't get another DA:O. I don't even understand how they would be able to do it? There's not many left who understands that kind of gameplay or aesthetics. The team of current developers grew up with consoles, Diablo, Dungeon Siege, FF and other jrpgs.

That we won't get a sequel to DA:O is tragic. But that's how it is. I hated and was bitter during DA2. Now it's water under the bridge. So I take what I can get and try to enjoy it. It's been easy so far.

 

But I think, for the future, that the silk gloves have to come off regarding discussing the voiced protagonist. That situation is close to unacceptable for me. And if they can make it a choice between two different, it would also be so simple to make a third silent voice. And if they can do subtitles for other's dialogue lines, they can dam well display mine as well. It's all just excuses which I do not much accept.

 

I like a lot of what you said...

 

and then you started about the voiced protagonist To me, the voiced protagonist is the best thing since the analogue stick (for sports games and platformers and the like mostly)

[Kinsz]

I think im starting to hate DA O thanx to these threads lol what i find sad though is that its the same people going from thread to thread declaring their hate for DA I , just out of curiousity if you hate/dislike the game so much why dont you just not play it and stop posting it about lol why punish yourself?

[bEVEsthda]

I like a lot of what you said...

 

and then you started about the voiced protagonist To me, the voiced protagonist is the best thing since the analogue stick (for sports games and platformers and the like mostly)

 

Well, I relate to the gameplay in these games in a different way. I grew up with Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Morrowind...

To me, the interesting thing is to create a character and then explore how that character copes with the challenges of the game. How it feels, reacts and acts. In that process the character is my creation. It's voice is inside my head and consistent with that character. The dialogue choices I examine, until one of them becomes the choice and voice of my character. I make the dialogue line my character's.

 

About half of all rpg gamers play rpgs this way. The other's, which you belong to, relate to the game and protagonist in a different way. Often, probably because of the history of games they have played previously.

[CHawk15]

I enjoyed both games for different reasons, from a pure story standpoint DA:O has the better developed story, but the game feels too much like it's on rails to me and the combat felt too much like watching virtual dice roll IMO.  A tighter story is often the result of a more "on rails" game, especially in this genre.  

 

DA:I story isn't nearly as well developed as Origins, but there's alot more to do.  Granted there are a bunch of fetch quests that just feel like filler material, but you don't spend a huge amount of time on those.  I've spent more time hunting Shards, astariums and eventually dragons and there are a few main quests in each area that are pretty well done.   I just wish they'd been a bit more tied to the main story instead.  The companion quests were pretty cool as well and the war table was an interesting mini game, but I need to do a few more playthroughs and do some things differently to see if it truly has any impact on the game.  

 

To summarize, Origins has the better story, but Inquistion is much more fun to play IMO.  I like them both. 

[Joe-Poe]

OP I agree mostly with you, If they fix the damn PC controls it would be a mediocre game, which seems to be Bios new thing.  

[Farangbaa]

Well, I relate to the gameplay in these games in a different way. I grew up with Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Morrowind...

To me, the interesting thing is to create a character and then explore how that character copes with the challenges of the game. How it feels, reacts and acts. In that process the character is my creation. It's voice is inside my head and consistent with that character. The dialogue choices I examine, until one of them becomes the choice and voice of my character. I make the dialogue line my character's.

 

About half of all rpg gamers play rpgs this way. The other's, which you belong to, relate to the game and protagonist in a different way. Often, probably because of the history of games they have played previously.

 

But I've played all those games, except Morrowind.

 

I've played games for 25 years. You know, with those big ass floppy disk that you could bend... and 'cga colour scheme' or whatever it was called. Those lovely pink colours

[themikefest]

I played DAO  a number of times. Like the game. I'm nearing the end of my 4th playthrough of DAI and like the game.

[The Spanish Inquisitor]

Same here, 33 year old who only really likes NPGs too.  When they come out, they are huge hits, yet seems hardly any do it.  

 

In case you missed these, I have a hunch you'd love them, even if a couple years old,  Gothic 1-3, Risen, Witcher 1-2 (hope Witcher 3 outdoes DAI in my expectations)

 
Skyking its same as saying how come anybody who likes DAO like Witcher series, you started this post by saying how DAI have so many different origins and race options, how does Witcher compare to that? or the spectacular companions and cast? But you like Witcher 1 and 2 because they are good game, just because you like DAO every single game doesn't have to be like it, and Bioware just can't make DAO 2 even if I would buy it. But DAI was a good try and a job well done from Bioware, not the perfect DA game, nor is it better than DAO but there is a hundred different reason you can love DAI for what is it, and be hopeful that Bioware is in the right path. Atleast the plot is moving forward with the Mythal and Elven god part.

[MrMrPendragon]

Was this thread really necessary?

 

I like DAO and I like DAI.

 

It's hard to repeat DAI because of the overemphasis on crafting, meaning you'd have to grind though it all over again, and walk miles and miles (all over again). But it's a fun game.

[dreamgazer]

and walk miles and miles

[MrMrPendragon]

 

I don't like the mounts because my companions disappear, plus I they're kinda slow. I move faster using Fade Shift.

 

Edit: The regal outfit looks nice on the Qunari. Pair it up with those Qunari helmets that gives you a mask, and it would look even better.

[KaiserShep]

 

I ignored getting this mount. It just looks.....horribad. 

[Kevorka]

The graphics, and character options are why I love it. I hope to get back healing spells, blood magic and the Ranger with some DLC quest. That is what have been talking about on this forum.
I am not the only one who thinks this way about it.

[AzureAardvark]

I ignored getting this mount. It just looks.....horribad. 

 

Kinda like a starving deth chicken.

[Jenaimarre]

It's like people can different opinions on things they like.. A preference or something.

Different opinions?! Surely you jest. I can't handle opinions that oppose my closed worldview!

[Vox Draco]

I would have liked it if bioware didn't lie about it and it wasn't sold and told to be a game with customizing, better than DAO, more indepth consequences for choices you make, etc,  when no choice you make has any impact in DAI, it's a really really dumbed down version of DAO with updated graphics, a much shorter story, with a ton of offline MMO fetch and grab filler quests.  

 

If they were honest they would have said it takes play in the DA world, it's a guided action/story game, with a bunch of side zones that could be fun with multiplayer but have nothing to do with the main story quests and don't impact anything on the main story at all.  

 

They sold it as being like DAO but bigger and better.  DAI has the 'illusion' of being an RPG, if you play more than once you'll notice how nothing changes.  Did you save or not save residents in Haven?  Notice how if you save them or not, you loose them no matter what.  They just say its death or they left on their own. 

 

Do you see yourself having over 40 playthroughs of DAI?  After 2 or 3 you'll have covered every 'dialogue' option.  If you aren't buying power points, I don't know how you could stand to do any side zones again since they don't make any difference. 

 

Ahem...lied? Welcome to reality, the world of marketing and maybe take ANYTHING with a grain of salt. By the way, many fans of Witcher 3 are still under the impression its a true open world game ... its not really. Did they lie? Or was it wishful thinking by fans? Or misunderstanding? For me, personallyI NEVER EVER expected DAO to be DAO 2. If people had this impressions its NOT Biowares fault as far as I am concerned. Just as you are confused that people can like DAO AND DAI, I am confused people would actually believe it could be DAO2. Baffling, isn't it?

 

Yet I actually agree to a couple of your arguments in the original post though. I would have liked a somewhat slower start as well, with a short introduction for each char before the conclave-meeting, and though EVERY sidequest is linked to the main-story some way or the other, maybe yes, a bit more tying things together more tightly would not have been bad.

 

On the other hand, I also see a problem when one part of the crowd demands more cutscenes, more origin-stories, more char-background for the Quizzy, tighter story-telling in the areas...but the other crowd is annoyed by the simple things like the Quizzy has now a voice, because this is limiting their imagination of their own char, and they usually hate Hawke as well, and DA2 has a lot of tight story-telling I'd say. If you want your fantasy run wild, too much story, too much char-bakground does actually hurt that, doesn't it? And what I want to say with that: Bioware simply can't please EVERYONE anyway. They ultimately have to make a game they want to. They did. Doesn't click with everyone? Yeah, as many games do.

 

There is no fault in Bioware. Only different tastes in game-styles and story-telling.

 

Personally, to answer the OP-Question: I rate DAO higher as DAI. And yes, the Cousland-Story has much to do with that. Rendon howe for me is the bad guy, you are fully spot on here, the Archdemon never really made me care, and so did Loghain, both were extremely lame as villains. But still I like DAI as well. Because I don't judge it as "failed DAO2", but I see it as a game standing on its own. And this also makes me like DA2, as shocking as it sounds.

[Persephone]

I can top this. I like DAI more than DAO. *Gasp* Imagine that! Now what follows is VERY DAO critical. If you don't like having it criticized harshly, skip this post. I'll repeat though: I really love DAO. But I'm done with it being put on a pedestal it never deserved.

 

I'll explain why:

 

• A cliche, flat narrative that can be summarized with the old “Hero out to kill the dragon”. Which in and by itself isn’t bad, you get political unrest and a whole slew of gigantic issues only you can solve, no matter that according to Canon you have little to no qualifications (Or rights) to do so (But Grey Warden treaties apparently are the magical solution to every sort of dilemma, ugh). These things, save the choice at Orzammar, are as b/w as they come and about as morally challenging as a child’s picture book.
• Ostagar is a debacle on all fronts. I can’t take it seriously, its epic cutscenes makes me cringe with their cheesy melodrama, horrid narrative and ignorant writing (BioWare really don't know how warfare works, like....at all). And THIS is what I’m supposed to be angry about for 50 hours? And what all my companions harp on about? NVM that my character is boxed into believing this trash, I can never ever even question it.
• Found a plot hole? Magical ancient Warden treaties entitle your Warden to decide the fates of nations and…. (Some of which they are completely ignorant of and what not), commit mass murder, sacrilege, treason and other atrocities like genocide, magical slave trade (Keeping the Anvil….), be complicit in/encourage rape,  murder and striking a deal with slavers to boost yer health….. Logically the dwarves wouldn’t give a damn about surfacers? Yer treaty, mate, gotta obey it. Elves wouldn’t care for a shem and hence not trust them, with good reason? Treaty magic again, have some Clan related secrets, also, help us, ‘cause your magical shem strength gets things done. (Since the majority plays as a human & all)
• All the above is like……making the grim!dark decisions, right? And yay choices, right? Except that you can do all of this & more and still be “The Hero Of Ferelden” and be worshiped by everyone. ‘cause the ones you’ve harmed and hurt conveniently never come back or up again. Even Leliana can be browbeat into staying with you after you desecrate the Urn and so forth. And the couple of “Coercion” checks aside……made a choice that cost you your fave companion’s love/approval? No problem, just spam them with meaningless gifts until it sticks again. Yeah, that’s shallow, right? Only time that won’t work is when…….ah, lets not talk about BioWare’s idea of what makes a good ruler, mmmmmkay?
• Now, I love “From Zero To Hero” plotlines, if they’re done well. DAO isn’t, not really. Magical rescue even though you were turned into a pincushion? The allies you spend hours grinding through uninspired garden hose dungeons to recruit (DR being the main offender) make little to no difference….. There are no consequences to speak of (And when there are , no matter what you do. they’re Not IN GAME anyway. But we do get little epilogue slides….like in text based games from the 80ties. That are immediately disregarded in the expansion/DLC for DAO itself, featuring the same hero(ine). (Usually)
• But to me, what really irks me, except for one exception, your allies are forced on you, esp. in the political arena. Which leads to the Urn Of Sacred Ashes quest where the Warden & CO commit mass murder and possibly what most in Thedas would regard to be the vilest kind of sacrilege. But Eamon is an honorable man! Well, he hid his dagger better than Brutus & Cassius did theirs, lolsobs. NVM his history of treason and abuse. Or his racism, sexism and callous greed.
• Blatant plagiarism from other universes, mainly “A Song Of Ice And Fire”.
• BioWare’s attempts at politics, warfare and the handling of such issues were clueless to the point of painting those capable of doing just that as villainous, evil and deserving of destruction. (DAI really improved the formula, I’ll say that)
• The Grey Wardens as an organization. From their introduction in The Calling to their appearances in DAO, DAII and DAI they have been portrayed as self centered, hypocritical, lying and incompetent to various extremes. I have yet to meet a single one in Canon I didn’t find grating on some level. They spout drivel about neutrality as Kirkwall is under siege but they rule The Anderfels, have no issue with Alistair usurping Ferelden’s throne via a coup, committed treason several times, are hunky dory with regicide (The Calling), guard their secrets more than the people they exist to protect, allied with their sworn enemies…..the list is endless.
• A narrative that forces my “best” ally on me, a man I despise and do not wish to work with (Eamon). A branching narrative ala Witcher 2 or DAI would be preferable by a long shot.
• The dreadful archdemon fight at the end? I didn’t need allies to get that thing down. It was lots of smoke & mirrors.
• The padding dungeons are FORCED on me in DAO, whereas in DAI I can do whatever I want whenever I want.

And the unlimited adoration and pedestal so many fans have put it on also played its part in my slow disenchantment with the game that began it all. I live and breathe for my headcanons in DAO and Rhia’s ‘verse retains very little of the vanilla game.

All that aside, have some more bullet points:

• A narrative punishing you for/ or bugging out if you play it wrong. It is so easy to see what “choices” BioWare wanted you to make, it’s laughable. The emotional manipulation through the cheapest tricks and plot twists only makes me hate it more.
• There isn’t just favoritism in the narratives, oh no, there are clear cut definitions on which characters you’re supposed to like and which characters you’re supposed to hate. Disagree? Well, the joke’s on you ‘cause the game will make you pay for it. NVM that they had to resort to the most OOC and “shocking” nonsense to steer you in the “right” direction
• To achieve that end, no methods were beneath them, progressive BioWare packing so much grossness into a single narrative has me wondering but that’s another post entirely.
• And I’m just not interested in heroes who rarely, if ever, feel any consequences for making mistakes. Now DAI has a similar approach in the chosen one shtick, that however is deconstructed to what it actually was (Circumstance) and there are consequences and callouts for at least SOME terrible behavior. Granted, in DAO party members could leave you but that was rarely tied to actual actions in game but to a numeric meter falling low enough, basically giving someone stupid rotten onions was enough to make them despise you. And the most infamous example where it was tied to in game behavior was due to blood lust, self centered revenge and political shortsightedness of epic proportions. I can’t take that seriously.

There’s loads more to say on the subject and I’ve been working on this post for a while but I’ll conclude with an honest admission:

DAO is not the pinnacle among RPGs it’s made out to be to me. It never was. (Same is true for the Witcher titles, great though they are) It’s IMHO not even among BioWare’s greatest games at this point. I sure enjoyed it and I wouldn’t want to part with my Warden's ‘verse for anything. But Rhiannon’s tale is not what I can get in game. I am sick and tired of DAO being put on a pedestal. I am sick and tired of the faves from that game being in everything and everywhere, even if they don’t fit into the narrative. At this point, I am sick and tired of DAO entirely. I haven’t played it in a long time and my motivation to finish Eluned Mahariel’s pt. (My 27th pt of DAO, fyi) is pretty much down to zero.

[lady8jane]

The OP has a point, but their point is what I actually like most about the Dragon Age games. Each one has its own approach to storytelling.

 

Dragon Age: Origins is what one usually calls "ab ovo" (lat. "from the egg"). The story starts from the beginning and we see the hero's journey from its humble starts. This also makes it a bit slow paced, there usually is not much sense of urgency.

 

Dragon Age 2 is a story in a story and presents us with an unreliable narrator (Varric). From his conversation with Cassandra we know from the very beginning that this Hawke character that we are playing will survive the story (as will obviously Varric) and will become the Champion of Kirkwall. This makes the story a bit more straightforward and "railroaded" at parts. From DAI we know that Varric didn't tell us the whole truth in DA2, a fact that we also experience during the game itself where we play one of Varric's "power fantasies" (the part where he saves his brother action hero style that's later rewinded and told again).

 

Dragon Age: Inquisition starts "in medias res" (lat. "in the midst of things") and we learn more about the backstory of our character through conversations and flashbacks. For some of the story missions this also means a bit more of a sense of urgency and a faster pace (especially "In Your Heart Shall Burn" comes to mind here).

[Farangbaa]

I don't like the mounts because my companions disappear, plus I they're kinda slow. I move faster using Fade Shift.

 

No you don't. And it's Fade Step.

[o Ventus]

Okay, the actual answer: Even in all its mediocrity, DAI is still better than any of the garbage the gaming industry has been shitting out for the past few years.

 

Is there actually a reason you're on these boards, if all you do is senselessly complain about everything the game has to offer?

 

Also, GG on saying "in all its mediocrity", and then giving the game a 7/10, because 7/10 is what you assign something mediocre.

 

 

[o Ventus]

I ignored getting this mount. It just looks.....horribad. 

Tiddles Majoris or bust.

[BloodyTalon]

I happen to like DA 2 despite being forced to play the most hateful and depraved race in dragon age humans Not my favorite bioware game or close to it.

But I like Origins and DA:I the same amount, the only draw back with DA:I storywise was a little to no background story for your pc other then a handful of war table cquests, but people can like different games for different reasons I never use one game has a baseline for all other games in a given title. Thats just silly.

Learned that lesson when I was younger from the final fantasy titles.

Modifié par BloodyTalon, 18 décembre 2014 - 09:54 .