412 réponses à ce sujet

[Warden Mystic]

How many of you believe what the Black City is and what deep secrets it might have?

[Red of Rivia]

Who knows... may be the Maker there, some spirit / demon powerful , there can be also where it comes from the demons , can be anything.

[Hellion Rex]

I believe the Black City was an ancient elven construct made to contain the Blight.

[Br3admax]

I believe it was terrible to tease us with it. Within jumping distance, and yet still so far away. 

[myahele]

Similar to what Corypheus did to the ruins of Haven in the last battle: A lifted up city from the real world that ended up being sealed when the veil was lifted

[gothicshark]

So....Have to spoiler this since my hypothesis based on dialog in game, and events at the end of the game. It's also a work in process.

Spoiler

So the theory goes like this.

Once a group of Elven Mages ascended to God hood by Splinting their soul with a Dragon.

Mythal: the Great Protector - Not an Old God
Elgar'nan: God of Vengeance (Razikale, the Dragon of Mystery)
Falon'Din: Friend of the Dead, the Guide (Lusacan, the Dragon of Night)
Dirthamen: Keeper of Secrets (Dumat, the Dragon of Silence and the archdemon of the First Blight)
Andruil: Goddess of the Hunt (Urthemiel, the Dragon of Beauty and the archdemon of the Fifth Blight)
Sylaise: the Hearthkeeper (Toth, the Dragon of Fire and the archdemon of the Third Blight)
June: God of the Craft (Zazikel, the Dragon of Chaos and the archdemon of the Second Blight)
Ghilan'nain: Mother of the Halla (Andoral, the Dragon of Slaves and the archdemon of the Fourth Blight)
Fen'Harel: The Dread Wolf - Not an Old God


Something Happened, Someone tried to kill their leader Mythal.

Civil War broke out.

Angered the Dread Wolf created a Device to make the Veil, he lured all the Gods to the Capital City (great city of Arlathan aka the Golden City), made the Fade separating the Gods from their Dragon half, who he tricked into being locked underground.

Elves became Mortal and since their Leaders were at war and missing their Civilization started to collapse, a Human Tribe seizing the gap became Tevinter.

The Dragons under the Earth became their Gods.

Some time around this point mid way though Imperial Tevinter history, Tevinter Magisters Merged Dragon Blood with Humans to make the Large Horned Humanoid Race we now call Qunari, they were created possibly as a warrior race.

After a while when Tevinter Magisters where nearly equal in power to the Ancient Elves, one of the Dragons (Dumat) convinced 4 Magisters to break into the veil and free the Trapped Gods.

When they got their the City was corrupted by the Blight, and this unleashed the First Blight.
and the rest is as they say known History.

[InDominata]

So....Have to spoiler this since my hypothesis based on dialog in game, and events at the end of the game. It's also a work in process.

Spoiler

So the theory goes like this.

Once a group of Elven Mages ascended to God hood by Splinting their soul with a Dragon.

Mythal: the Great Protector - Not an Old God
Elgar'nan: God of Vengeance (Razikale, the Dragon of Mystery)
Falon'Din: Friend of the Dead, the Guide (Lusacan, the Dragon of Night)
Dirthamen: Keeper of Secrets (Dumat, the Dragon of Silence and the archdemon of the First Blight)
Andruil: Goddess of the Hunt (Urthemiel, the Dragon of Beauty and the archdemon of the Fifth Blight)
Sylaise: the Hearthkeeper (Toth, the Dragon of Fire and the archdemon of the Third Blight)
June: God of the Craft (Zazikel, the Dragon of Chaos and the archdemon of the Second Blight)
Ghilan'nain: Mother of the Halla (Andoral, the Dragon of Slaves and the archdemon of the Fourth Blight)
Fen'Harel: The Dread Wolf - Not an Old God


Something Happened, Someone tried to kill their leader Mythal.

Civil War broke out.

Angered the Dread Wolf created a Device to make the Veil, he lured all the Gods to the Capital City (great city of Arlathan aka the Golden City), made the Fade separating the Gods from their Dragon half, who he tricked into being locked underground.

Elves became Mortal and since their Leaders were at war and missing their Civilization started to collapse, a Human Tribe seizing the gap became Tevinter.

The Dragons under the Earth became their Gods.

Some time around this point mid way though Imperial Tevinter history, Tevinter Magisters Merged Dragon Blood with Humans to make the Large Horned Humanoid Race we now call Qunari, they were created possibly as a warrior race.

After a while when Tevinter Magisters where nearly equal in power to the Ancient Elves, one of the Dragons (Dumat) convinced 4 Magisters to break into the veil and free the Trapped Gods.

When they got their the City was corrupted by the Blight, and this unleashed the First Blight.
and the rest is as they say known History.

But what about...?

Spoiler

What if the elven gods were dragons (and people simultaneously), the Great Dragons perhaps? As Flemeth teases Hawke in DA2 with, "perhaps I am a dragon".These gods seem able to take two mortal(?) forms as far as we know, human and elf -  maybe they drank the blood of the Great dragons, as mentioned in The Silent Grove drinking the blood of these dragons can grant godlike power. Not to mention Mythal's historical link to dragons, the statue in her grove is a dragon and so is her "guardian" (if the Inquisitor drinks from the well), and Morrigan can become a dragon after drinking from the well. The Tevinters and Qunari worship dragons also. Apart from that, i'm definitely on board with the elven gods/old gods crossover. And apparently one of the Astrarium puzzles mentions the possibility ofan 8th old god, draconis being the constellation associated. Aaaaand the weirdo cults that believe Andraste was a dragon or reincarnated as a dragon, and the tale of Tyrrda Bright-Axe (the full tale can be read after getting the respective landmarks in the Hinterlands - worth a read) which involves an elven lover "laughing lady of the skies". Just some things to consider. Some mysterious things...

 

[Willowhugger]

I'm with the guys who think the Golden City is just Arlathan.

The elves made Eluvians to visit the Fade and lived there full time.

Which is why Solas wants to get there.

That's also why it's a blackened ruin.

[Farangbaa]

The Maker's S&M Dungeon

[Dean_the_Young]

I'm with the guys who think the Golden City is just Arlathan.

The elves made Eluvians to visit the Fade and lived there full time.

Which is why Solas wants to get there.

That's also why it's a blackened ruin.

 

It's implied at multiple points in the lore that there was no 'Fade' in the ancient times- that the Veil is an artificial construct. Moreover, Solas has a dialogue exchange about how a fade-merged world would act like- an implication in hindsight that he was referring to his original times.

[Dean_the_Young]

Golden City was a giant quarantine zone created by Solas for the Blight. Cory was misled by one of the other Elvhen into unleashing it (Dead Whispers). Why? As reprisal against Solas for locking them up and creating the Veil.

 

/speculation

 

That would imply the Old Gods (which did exist) were ancient elves with a grudge against the other elves.

 

Possible, I suppose, but why be the patrons of the destroyers of the Elven? Revenge, as a fallen rival pantheon of the elven pantheon?

[Colonelkillabee]

I'd still like an answer to what is the blight's taint. No one's got an answer, and that one question is what sort of puts the golden city is Arlathan argument on pause a moment.

 

Then again, darkspawn came out of that aluvian in Origins. That is suspicious. But still not an answer.

[Br3admax]

Doubtful. I also don't think there's much of a comparison between Flemeth and Kieran. 

 

Anyway, I don't believe the Veil was created to seal away the Blight. I've seen some speculation that the elves lost their immortality because of the Veil. Simply not true. Uthenera was also able to be reached by ancient elves even after whatever civil war destroyed their empire., per a few codex entries in the Temple of Mythal. I also don't think Solas was in some type of feud with the elven gods. Cole specifically says he sealed his friends away to protect them, and that he wasn't wrong to do it.  

[Jaison1986]

Golden City was a giant quarantine zone created by Solas for the Blight. Cory was misled by one of the other Elvhen into unleashing it (Dead Whispers). Why? As reprisal against Solas for locking them up and creating the Veil.

 

/speculation

 

My personal theory is that the black city is Arlathan. It was once golden, during the times of glory of the ancient elves. Since Inquisition reveals Tevinter never crushed Arlathan because the elves destroyed it themselves, it leaves you wondering what actually happened to it. Considering Varric personal quest with Bianca, showing red lyrium is blighted lyrium plus the fact that the red lyrium idol was in an thaig that was said to look so ancient that it was from an time before the paragons, makes me believe the taint came from somewere else originally. I believe the taint is some sort of biological/magical weapon the elves created when they were at civil war with each other. But as aways, it grew out of their control, and the city of Arlathan was blighted, creating the black city. And so, the elves sealed it away in the fade, hoping their terrible weapon would never resurface again.

 

But I'm still trying to figure it out were the old gods fit into this.

[Dean_the_Young]

Could be. Would explain why Mythal was intent on preserving Urthemiel's spark. That's what they all are. Flemeth, Solas, and Kieran are just meatbags. The spark or flame as Magister Erasthenes put it is what's important. Perceived race isn't. Corypheus also mentions hearing 'dead whispers' when the Golden City was breached not dissimilar to what the Inquisitor hears if he drinks from the Well of Sorrows.

 

There's also the increasing suggestion of a collective mind at works with the Blight, given direction or unity by it's 'god' of the Archdemon. Darkspawn (and, by extension, wardens) have always had some sort of shared mind through the taint, one associated with whispers (what the Wardens hear) and singing (what the Awoken Darskpawn like Mother recall- and possibly similar to lyrium's 'song').

 

The geass of the Temple of Mythall is similar, with the unclear whispering effect (audible to the player), the compulsion aspect from the 'god' (possibly demonstrated by the Darkspawn's obediance to the Blight's master), and of course the gestalt... identity of all those dead priests and such who get added to the pool. If we consider the idea (my old theory) that the Old Gods may have known exactly what was in the Golden City, and led the Magisters there in order with an expectation of getting the Blight, which could be seen as a way of forcing such a geass on everyone it infects...

 

This is cool- talking with you on this is opening my mind and letting ideas flow. I need to think on it a bit, but I think the suggestions that the Blight and Ancient Elves are related is also leading to this idea that the Old Gods themselves may have been an elven pantheon of sorts. Which would play into a good deal of the ancient astronomy codexes, and the destruction of the ancient elves.

 

Gotta keep thinking on this.

[EmissaryofLies]

Would be a fantastic name for a club/bar in the DA universe.

[Hellion Rex]

There's also the increasing suggestion of a collective mind at works with the Blight, given direction or unity by it's 'god' of the Archdemon. Darkspawn (and, by extension, wardens) have always had some sort of shared mind through the taint, one associated with whispers (what the Wardens hear) and singing (what the Awoken Darskpawn like Mother recall- and possibly similar to lyrium's 'song').

 

The geass of the Temple of Mythall is similar, with the unclear whispering effect (audible to the player), the compulsion aspect from the 'god' (possibly demonstrated by the Darkspawn's obediance to the Blight's master), and of course the gestalt... identity of all those dead priests and such who get added to the pool. If we consider the idea (my old theory) that the Old Gods may have known exactly what was in the Golden City, and led the Magisters there in order with an expectation of getting the Blight, which could be seen as a way of forcing such a geass on everyone it infects...

 

This is cool- talking with you on this is opening my mind and letting ideas flow. I need to think on it a bit, but I think the suggestions that the Blight and Ancient Elves are related is also leading to this idea that the Old Gods themselves may have been an elven pantheon of sorts. Which would play into a good deal of the ancient astronomy codexes, and the destruction of the ancient elves.

 

Gotta keep thinking on this.

I'm kind of on board with the whole Old Gods were an ancient elven pantheon, perhaps. But why were they struck down?

 

And, regarding the Blight, what in the world is it composed of? The Blight definitely seems to be a living entity but I'm highly curious as to what went into its creation.

[Dean_the_Young]

Doubtful. I also don't think there's much of a comparison between Flemeth and Kieran. 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I don't believe the Veil was created to seal away the Blight. I've seen some speculation that the elves lost their immortality because of the Veil. Simply not true. Uthenera was also able to be reached by ancient elves even after whatever civil war destroyed their empire., per a few codex entries in the Temple of Mythal. I also don't think Solas was in some type of feud with the elven gods. Cole specifically says he sealed his friends away to protect them, and that he wasn't wrong to do it.  

 

 

 

Does he? I'll have to look into that.

 

That doesn't disprove anything, though- certainly not the idea of the Blight quarantine theory of the Golden City. Elven lore, despite its suggestions, suggests that Solas wasn't in a feud with his fellow gods. Trapping them for their own good would be well within quarantine theory.

[Hellion Rex]

In case y'all didn't see this. These are the "unreadable" elven writings in the Temple of Mythal, that become translated if you personally drink from the Well.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

I'm kind of on board with the whole Old Gods were an ancient elven pantheon, perhaps. But why were they struck down?

 

Because they were a rival ancient elven pantheon.
 

 

And, regarding the Blight, what in the world is it composed of? The Blight definitely seems to be a living entity but I'm highly curious as to what went into its creation.

 

The stuff dreams and nightmares are made of, clearly.

 

More seriously- elven geass. Magically transmitted, enforceable kind that can bring people involuntarily under it. Plus, mutation magic.

[Jazzpha]

Something else to keep in mind is that we still don't know who The Formless One is, or how the Forgotten Ones really fit into the Elven Pantheon.

 

I really like the idea of ancient feuding pantheons, though. Especially since we now know that the 'Gods' may have just been pulling Arthur C. Clarkes on everyone.

[Br3admax]

Does he? I'll have to look into that.

 

That doesn't disprove anything, though- certainly not the idea of the Blight quarantine theory of the Golden City. Elven lore, despite its suggestions, suggests that Solas wasn't in a feud with his fellow gods. Trapping them for their own good would be well within quarantine theory.

All of the elven gods aren't worth saving because of infighting, so the ones he sealed away were, and while the Golden City may indeed be a quarantine zone, I find it hard to believe this was actually when the split between this world and the Fade happened. Humans already were in some number in Thedas. The Veil clearly existed then already. The betrayal had not yet happened, and Tevinter was still some backwater tribe. The elven gods likely weren't sealed away until the Imperium's conquests began.