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[TEWR]

I'm looking at some of Cole's dialogue, specifically with Varric, and he talks of "the song that once was" and asks Varric if his attempts at writing are to "reach across, to hear the song that was sundered".

 

Sundered... a curious word to use. Perhaps the Dwarves of the PT performed experiments of some nature. Perhaps they were meant to distance themselves from magic, and ended up doing so... but corrupting the native lyrium with the Blight in some fashion. Or perhaps it was something gone awry -- a forbidden act that caused a rift between the denizens of the PT, and the ones who engaged in it were sealed away to be forgotten and the others started a new life and founded "the first thaig".

 

He also talks of how Dwarves carry a little of the song, like Templars. And Red Templars have a darker song.

 

Which makes me wonder. Given that the Profane showed some signs of magic, perhaps the magic came from their consuming the red lyrium. The Hunger Abomination Rock Wraith said they had feasted on it for age beyond memory, and the codex on the Profane said they consumed the gods.

 

Interesting....

[Hellion Rex]

Y'all need to check out this reddit link, like right now.

Saw this discussion on Reddit about the post-credits scene and thought it was interesting. Can confirm that the information shared in the original post is real, since I was also able to find the file it refers to in epi_stinger.sb with DA Tools (Bundle Explorer).
 

[RobRam10]

Y'all need to check out this reddit link, like right now.
 

He must die and that GH must be mine!

[Battlebloodmage]

Isn't that Detroit?

[Nightdragon8]

That would imply the Old Gods (which did exist) were ancient elves with a grudge against the other elves.

 

Possible, I suppose, but why be the patrons of the destroyers of the Elven? Revenge, as a fallen rival pantheon of the elven pantheon?

Solas wanted to stop the fighting, and with that ended up destorying the Elven empire, from what the 'old elves' where saying that it was getting pretty bad anyway, so the lose of the empire was pretty much expected.

 

Sounds sort of like the Warhammer 40k Eldar Lore pretty much... expect there wasn't a birth of a new warp god, something created the blight, and took the magic away from the Drawves and Immortality from the Elves. Tho I get eh felling that the only elves that got immortality where the ones worshiping and following the 'gods/spirts'

[Master Warder Z_]

Isn't that Detroit?

The Anderfels?

[myahele]

We know that its possible for people to ascend into "godhood" if they get approval of the pantheon ala Ghilanain. I wonder if Flemeth sent whatever knowledge of good mood she had deep within the Fade for Morrigan to discover once she was ready?

Since we know Flemythal can control where eluvians can transport people I wonder if she put Urthemiels essense in a safe place in the fade so that he could grow. Sola's does !mention if a spirit/demon dies they go back to the domain where they lived and slowly "grow" but won't necessarily be who they once where: think reincarnation.

Maybe Urthemiel will share the same fate?

[Hellion Rex]

We know that its possible for people to ascend into "godhood" if they get approval of the pantheon ala Ghilanain. I wonder if Flemeth sent whatever knowledge of good mood she had deep within the Fade for Morrigan to discover once she was ready?
Since we know Flemythal can control where eluvians can transport people I wonder if she put Urthemiels essense in a safe place in the fade so that he could grow. Sola's does !mention if a spirit/demon dies they go back to the domain where they lived and slowly "grow" but won't necessarily be who they once where: think reincarnation.
Maybe Urthemiel will share the same fate?

I agree. That's what I think Mythal sent through the mirror before facing Solas.

[Monica21]

Something I can't figure out, if Solas wants a world where spirits can travel freely in the physical world, why do you get points with him for activating the devices that strengthen the Veil?

[Tielis]

Something I can't figure out, if Solas wants a world where spirits can travel freely in the physical world, why do you get points with him for activating the devices that strengthen the Veil?

 

Mayyyyybe because... he's lying?  He's smart enough to know that Cory was taking down the Veil - ur doin' it wrong.

[myahele]

Yeah, maybe what we're actually doing is powering up those devices so that they could then open up the veil when necessary.

This might be what he meant by "spells taking years to weave" and stuff like that. Or maybe its also to prevent spirits from accidentally going to the real world, get stuck and then driven to become demons

[TEWR]

Hey TBKR, the Lake Calenhad codex has something pretty interesting (and to be expected, given the revelations from Abelas).

 

 

The Tevinters believed that the waters of Lake Calenhad were blessed by Razikale, god of mysteries, and that those who drank from them were granted special insights. This was why they built the great tower on an island in the middle of the lake, hoping the powers of the lake would aid their magical research.

[TEWR]

Gaider was asked this question on tumblr (twice in fact) and his latest reply said that the major stuff that was revealed around the end of the game was planned from the beginning.

[Computron2000]

This is only one continent and there are others. The qunari and humans were rumored to come from the north.

 

My theory is that in the ancient days, an evil immortal power in the north grew strong and looked to destroy any who could oppose it and in the far south where dangerous enemies in the form of elven gods. The blight was a disease designed to be a WMD. In effect it robbed the elves of their immortality and drove their elven gods mad slowly, in an insidious form of negative emotions (aka darkside of the force). Once the southern continent was of no threat, it turned to other enemies or spent too much of its power on making the blight and had to sleep.

 

Enter solas, who imprisoned the elven gods physical bodies in the ground and their spirit/power/etc in the golden city which turned black. The qunari were bred as warriors from the northern empire and like the humans long ago before them fled their masters.

 

In this way, once the entire story on the golden city is done, another story can rise up, no less impactful than the others

[katokires]

Nietzsche is standing there, all in black, with a huge katana with "ubbersmensch" written in it, blood red pupils, you arrive there and he says "The Maker is dead".

Dialogue follows and he says the Plato developped the fade with all the ideas word bullshit and thus a spirit was born out of his ideas called the Maker, but Nietzsche follow the spirit, entered the fade and slew it! Now the maker is dead and either you ro him will take all the power of the fade, depending on who wins.

[Reznore57]

I think there's something about dragons left unclear at this point.

It's pretty obvious the Elven Gods were shapeshifters , and the dragon form was seen as Divine.

It seems the Qunari are a race who's been fed dragon blood(or something like that) for generation , there's hints of them being in Thedas (Par Vollen) long before the Qunari arrived.

 

The dwarves were also known to be from Thedas , but no idea what was going on in the Deep Roads.The fact that they have no connexion to the fade , makes me think something also happens to the dwarves.(I think Kieran says the dwarves were "titans" or something , the elves have the old blood , and Cory call the Qunari race a mistake)

 

No idea about humans , they are also somehow different from the Elf from a magical point of view.They don't react well to the "Crossroad" the world where the difference between Thedas and the Fade is very thin.

Qunari like elves have no problem in this realm.

And I don't know about dwarves.

 

Anyway to get back to dragons , Flemeth daughter says they are the "blood of the world" , and it seems one of Mythal plan is to save them.So what's the deal with elves and dragons exactly?

Also in the comics , the powerful dragons are asleep ...remind me of the elves and in uthenera.

But they can't just wake up , they need dragons blood.So I supposed the dragons may have been under some kind of blood magic spell.

Also the Archdemons are asleep and it seems the taint manage to wake them up.

I guess a curse was placed on the dragons for whatever reasons.

[azarhal]

Hey TBKR, the Lake Calenhad codex has something pretty interesting (and to be expected, given the revelations from Abelas).

 

You know what is amusing, some other codex in DAO about the circle Tower claims it was built by the Dwarves for the Avvar long before Tevinter took over. And after DAI, and Tevinter scavenging everything elven, it seems it is an elven structure in reality (as is the Templar of Sacred Ashes*, the Brecilian Forest ruins -already hinted at- and Ostagar -same architectures as the others-).

 

*After Skyhold, I won't believe otherwise. Large fortified structure in the middle of nowhere with no roads to lead you there. So totally elven. Add that Solas knew there was a lots of lyrium underneath it...

[Br3admax]

Well saying a lot of lyrium is underground means nothing, that and the fact that the lyrium didn't even come from there, doesn't really lead to anything conclusive. I'd also like to point out the elves didn't actually build what we see at Skyhold alone, and there's nothing that says anything else in Thedas has to be any different. The ruins in Brecilian also had elves and humans living together there, not just elves. 

[stephen_dedalus]

This thread has raised some genuinely intriguing possibilities, some of which are so plausible and so carefully anchored (sorry) in the lore that I wonder if the Bioware writers have any real surprises left for us.  Which brings me to a question: as impressive and engaging as the slow burn / gradual reveal approach to the series' lore and mythology has been, has it removed the possibility of eventually introducing a single narrative moment that could function as an assumption-refuting, paradigm shattering revelation? If I may borrow an example from the Mass Effect games, many players (including myself) will identify

Spoiler

the initial conversation with Sovereign on Virmire, during which it is revealed that Sovereign is not merely a Reaper ship, but an actual Reaper, and that Reapers rather than the supposedly benevolent Protheans are responsible for introducing Mass Relay technology and the Citadel into the galaxy in order to determine the course of organic life's technological evolution,

as the most memorable and emotionally resonant moment in the trilogy.  Among other reasons, I think that part of that conversation's narrative power stems from the way it revises history, debunks myths, and reveals horrifying truths in one dense, compact scene that overwhelms the player's emotional faculties with paradigm-shattering information.  It's the narrative equivalent of a lightning flash that illuminates the darkness to expose a larger reality that changes everything.  Or perhaps it's like a powder keg going off, leaving the player to pick up the fragments of his or her broken worldview and begin the process of coming to terms with a more difficult reality. Of course, that's not the only way to effectively reveal obscured truths in fiction, but it is one way, and it has much to recommend it. 

 

I worry that with DA lore, we may have been following a long, thin trail of powder over the course of three games, and by the time we reach the powder keg (if there even is one, planned or otherwise), we'll find that it's empty, and there's no explosive revelation in store for us because getting us to the keg exhausted the supply of powder.  So I suppose what I'm really curious about is whether other contributors to this thread have the same concerns.  Has distributing the revelations in a slow trickle of suggestions over the span of three games made it difficult or impossible to effectively implement an explosive narrative reveal, and, if so, is that necessarily a problem?  A series of whispers doesn't make a shout, but maybe this isn't the type of game that needs to raise its voice. Does DA even need a

Spoiler

Sovereign on Virmire

moment, or can it dole out lore at a more deliberate pace and still pack emotional punch?  Or was the

Spoiler

Solas-as-Dread Wolf

scene supposed to be that revelation, and, if so, why didn't it feel that way for me?

[Ranadiel Marius]

So a thought occurred to me earlier. How did anyone find out any details about the attempt to enter the Black City? If you think about what we know regarding the attempt, it seems questionable that anyone should even be aware of the attempt much less know any details about the event. 

 

What we know is as follows (or at least what I can remember):

-7 Magisters who were high priests to different Old Gods made an attempt to enter the Black City, I believe on the initiative of the Magister who would become known as Corypheus

-The attempt was so secret that the priests didn't tell each other their names instead going by titles

-The Magisters became infected by the taint during the attempt (Cory implies the infection was a willing choice)

-There is no record of any of the Magisters returning

-In the centuries that followed, Tevinter families claimed to be related to the seven magisters as a way to make themselves more prestigious

-After the rise of the Chantry, that practice ceased because the Chantry tied the rise of Darkspawn to attempt to enter the Gold City and any tie to the magisters became scandalous instead

 

So somehow we go from top secret project of seven people, to point of pride of a country.....without any of the people who had knowledge of the attempt managing to return. I doubt they had anyone else helping them with the project (other than blood donors who died), and even if they did it should have appeared to have been a failed attempt to all but the seven who went. So why were these people respected for nearly four centuries? I suppose if the Golden City was always visible in the same way that the Black City is always visible, the mages of the time might have observed the color change and taken a different interpretation of events than the Chantry would later put on it (for example, the seven managed to claim the golden power from the Golden City for themselves rather than corrupting the city). That still leaves the question of how exactly did the TI learn of the attempt in the first place.

 

I'd also ask how the Chantry could connect the attempt with the emergence of the Darkspawn, but the wiki puts the emergence of the Darkspawn and the attempt as occuring in the same year, so I'm betting it is a case where the early chantry scholars noticed a correlation, assumed causation, and lucked into being right. But there still seems to be something missing here....maybe one of the Magisters made it back in secret? Now that would be interesting if it turns out that for centuries there has been an ancient Magister Darkspawn behind the curtain in Tevinter quietly nudging events. I'm not quite sure how else to explain this top secret project becoming so well known.

[madrar]

Sorry for the thread necromancy- just changed my mind on the nature of Andruil's weapon, and since the post is buried in here, I figured this was the place for it.

 

 

"Grains of light" from stars would be a much more apt description of photons. Conceptually, then, Andruil’s weapon would be an extremely powerful laser, one whose source seems to be radioactive energy from the (potentially blighted) lyrium “Blood of the Sun”,

 

Now… and this gets a little out there and technical, but stay with me here.  Consider the effect of a femtosecond laser pulse on metal.  

 

It turns it black.  Pitch black.

 

Not black like a coating of carbon soot that can be wiped away. The heat of the laser actually restructures the metal in such a way that it becomes a very effective absorptive, instead of reflective, surface. This holds true, even though on an atomic level it is still entirely made of up whatever it was before- silver, or aluminum, or… gold.  

 

How much of the “Golden” City’s description was literal and how much was just rhetorical aggrandizement is debatable.   Likely, the truth lies somewhere between.  As the greatest city of the Elvhen Empire, even if it were not literally golden, it was probably liberally accented with the gaudy display of wealth and power that gold conveys.  And if such a weapon were turned upon the city?  Every golden element would be indelibly blackened.

 

An interesting coincidence, but probably not worth more than a raised eyebrow on its own.  What gives it a bit more credibility, to me, is the peculiar defense system we run into in the Citadelle du Corbeau in the Exalted Plains: the one the humans clearly neither understand nor control.  A lesser weapon by far, certainly, but it does confirm that such weapons had been conceived and gives a vague hint at how Andruil’s version might have worked.

 

Could it possibly have been defensive, like the varterral of elven tombs, triggered by the arrival of the Magisters or ancient attack?  Or was it used offensively?  Did Andruil, in her madness, attempt to turn it against the seat of the Pantheon before the city was sealed?  Could it have even been the proximate cause of Solas’ decision to seal the City?   (Perhaps even in a bubble of localized space-time, at the moment of the weapon's release?  I'm not sure I believe him entirely when he claims he had no idea magic could be used to decelerate/accelerate time - the fade is all about warped-physics-as-magic, and that's his Thing.) 

 

I’m not sure I like any of those possibilities enough to favor one yet.  Thoughts?

[Hellion Rex]

Hmmmm. I think it's an interesting theory that it could have all been a result of Andruil's Light. Perhaps she is the great betrayer that Flemeth holds such a grudge against.

[madrar]

So a thought occurred to me earlier. How did anyone find out any details about the attempt to enter the Black City? If you think about what we know regarding the attempt, it seems questionable that anyone should even be aware of the attempt much less know any details about the event. 

 

What we know is as follows (or at least what I can remember):

-7 Magisters who were high priests to different Old Gods made an attempt to enter the Black City, I believe on the initiative of the Magister who would become known as Corypheus

-The attempt was so secret that the priests didn't tell each other their names instead going by titles

-The Magisters became infected by the taint during the attempt (Cory implies the infection was a willing choice)

-There is no record of any of the Magisters returning

-In the centuries that followed, Tevinter families claimed to be related to the seven magisters as a way to make themselves more prestigious

-After the rise of the Chantry, that practice ceased because the Chantry tied the rise of Darkspawn to attempt to enter the Gold City and any tie to the magisters became scandalous instead

 

You're making some pretty big assumptions here, so I'm not sure this is on as solid a foundation as it seems.  

 

First, it seems odd to believe that the High Priests of Minrathous wouldn't be aware of each others' identity prior to the attempt.  Thus, the more likely scenario is that they took titles not as a way to obscure their identity beforehand, but as a mark of particular pride afterward: Corypheus ("conductor") being an obvious example, celebrating his control and mastery over the "song" of the blight.  

 

Second, keeping details about nature of the attempt (or more likely "these attempts", as it seems likely there were several before they were successful) under wraps with regard to their slaves is an obvious precaution given the... uh, means... such an attempt involved.  It doesn't necessarily follow that it was unknown outside the circle of seven.   

 

Think of it a bit like a NASA moon landing.  The details may be under wraps, and the crew may never return- but Somniari would have been able to confirm that *something* happened to the City coinciding with the Magisters' attempt.  Whether the overall mission were successful or not, it would have marked a huge leap in what was considered possible, and the missing priests hailed as heroes or martyrs for the attempt.