Hmmmm. I think it's an interesting theory that it could have all been a result of Andruil's Light. Perhaps she is the great betrayer that Flemeth holds such a grudge against.
Going by the story in the Temple of Mythal, Andruil could want revenge against Mythal for stealing her memories...but, I don't put it pass Mythal having a self-righteous ego so large she see betrayal in an act of revenge against one of her "judgement".
Hmmmm. I think it's an interesting theory that it could have all been a result of Andruil's Light. Perhaps she is the great betrayer that Flemeth holds such a grudge against.
That particular grudge is more likely against Elgar'nan, given various echoes of the husband-betrayer both in myth and personal history.
I'm not entirely certain where Andruil falls in terms of faction lines. She seems to start allied with the Pantheon, then is either turned to conflict and madness by exposure to blight in the Abyss, or willfully changes faction and is granted blighted power/armor/weapons by the Forgotten Ones. Mythal seems to return her to the fold (if Dalish myth is anything to go by) but at a cost. I'm still chewing through exactly what I think went on there, so I'll leave it at that for now.
I see two things causing trouble when it comes to Andruil :
First obviously ,she went to the abyss , and went crazy.Mythal fought her , and stole memories from her.
Maybe she didn't trust Andruil , maybe she thought she was too corrupted and would go back despite common sense.
Anyway it doesn't sound like Mythal trusted Andruil.
Second : Andruil promoted Ghilan 'nain to Godhood.
It had some ripple effect if we believe some codex in the temple of Mythal.
Ghilan 'nain went to see some random elf , and told him he could shapeshift into a form reserved for the Gods.
It didn't end well , it was forbidden.
So the elf asked for Mythal mercy , she refuses to get involved , and let Elgar'nan deal with the man.
(the text ends up talking about a angry unknown mass , I assume the "judgement" was received poorly)
I'm thinking at one point the elves started to question their "Gods" divinity, Solas refuse to see them as "Gods" afterall.
Sometimes I wonder if Solas was that elf who shapeshift , since he's supposed to be the God of rebellion.(and there's also some old tales of a wolf flying in the sky , and it seems the Divine form was the dragon)
He talks about being betrayed and not trusting your friends .
It's possible it was all a plot to make Mythal looks bad , and turn the people against her.
And then she was murdered and without her influence , the remaining Gods only got worst.
You're making some pretty big assumptions here, so I'm not sure this is on as solid a foundation as it seems.
First, it seems odd to believe that the High Priests of Minrathous wouldn't be aware of each others' identity prior to the attempt. Thus, the more likely scenario is that they took titles not as a way to obscure their identity beforehand, but as a mark of particular pride afterward: Corypheus ("conductor") being an obvious example, celebrating his control and mastery over the "song" of the blight.
Second, keeping details about nature of the attempt (or more likely "these attempts", as it seems likely there were several before they were successful) under wraps with regard to their slaves is an obvious precaution given the... uh, means... such an attempt involved. It doesn't necessarily follow that it was unknown outside the circle of seven.
Think of it a bit like a NASA moon landing. The details may be under wraps, and the crew may never return- but Somniari would have been able to confirm that *something* happened to the City coinciding with the Magisters' attempt. Whether the overall mission were successful or not, it would have marked a huge leap in what was considered possible, and the missing priests hailed as heroes or martyrs for the attempt.
The game outright states that the High Priests didn't know each other's names. "Each was a high priest to one of the Old Gods. Each came to the ritual shrouded in secrecy, hiding their true name even from each other. They were competitors, you see. The Old Gods told them they would break into the Golden City and usurp the Maker's throne... but only one of them could sit on that throne. Each assumed a title related to their role in casting the ritual. Some texts claim they had a leader: the High Priest of Dumat, called "Corypheus."" (Corypheus codex entry) Admittedly this is coming from writings that occur after the founding of the Chantry so it might be getting some details wrong, but since they miraculously got so many other details right (including the title of Dumat's high priest), I don't think we can outright claim it is completely wrong simply due to when it was written.
Also, we know Corypheus took his name before the ceremony began due to the writings of one of his slaves (who was killed as part of the ritual).
So we have a ceremony here where the participants don't know the names of each other (fade knows how the logistics of getting them together worked), and yet people outside of the group knew what they were doing? I don't buy it. There is something just beneath the surface here, but we don't have enough details to know what.
Also, we know Corypheus took his name before the ceremony began due to the writings of one of his slaves (who was killed as part of the ritual).
So we have a ceremony here where the participants don't know the names of each other (fade knows how the logistics of getting them together worked), and yet people outside of the group knew what they were doing? I don't buy it. There is something just beneath the surface here, but we don't have enough details to know what.
*slaps a hand to her forehead*
You're right. I have zero faith in the accuracy of the Chant, but you're totally right about the Claws of Dumat codex. Adopting the title beforehand puts it in a new (and weird) light. A tiny part of my brain is screaming "bad retrofiiiiit"- like somebody overlooked the logical inconsistency of Tevinter knowing anything about the fate of the priests or the success of the ritual until the First Blight hit, but I'd rather give the writers the benefit of the doubt. There may be something more here.
Question. If this has been asked already, I apologize and I'll keep looking. I don't remember where it is said/implied that the Veil didn't always exist. Could someone point me in the right direction? Thank you
When the dragon ruled the skies. Dragon Age: The Silent Grove.
When the dragon ruled the skies. Dragon Age: The Silent Grove.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Thank you. Is that the only reference? There's no mention of it Tevinter tales or elven legends or anything? I'm just wondering how far back in history that would have to have been for there to be little to no mention of it. If the ancient elves of Arlathan were dreamers practicing uthenera in the Fade, the Veil would have to already have existed at that time.
The item description of the Maetashear Axe. Other bits of scattered lore. Some stuff tied to the Primeval Dwarves IIRC.
Check out this image of the Black City in Inquisition.
It's next to the portal.
To be fair, the Corypheus entry isn't from the Chant but from the writing of a Magister who is questioning the Chant.*slaps a hand to her forehead*
You're right. I have zero faith in the accuracy of the Chant, but you're totally right about the Claws of Dumat codex. Adopting the title beforehand puts it in a new (and weird) light. A tiny part of my brain is screaming "bad retrofiiiiit"- like somebody overlooked the logical inconsistency of Tevinter knowing anything about the fate of the priests or the success of the ritual until the First Blight hit, but I'd rather give the writers the benefit of the doubt. There may be something more here.
*slaps a hand to her forehead*
You're right. I have zero faith in the accuracy of the Chant, but you're totally right about the Claws of Dumat codex. Adopting the title beforehand puts it in a new (and weird) light. A tiny part of my brain is screaming "bad retrofiiiiit"- like somebody overlooked the logical inconsistency of Tevinter knowing anything about the fate of the priests or the success of the ritual until the First Blight hit, but I'd rather give the writers the benefit of the doubt. There may be something more here.
We already know there is something more. It's clear after reading the Claws of Dumat that the story of the Magisters using thousand of slaves and half the lyrium in the Empire is Chantry made propaganda. It was a ritual done in secret.
But at the same time, everything Andraste said is accurate. She knew precisely what Corypheus and is cohorts did in total secrets 200 years after it happened, 200 years of Blight that almost destroyed Thedas. According to her part of the Chant of Light, she event felt ashamed by it.
You know what is amusing about Andraste, she's wearing a similar tiara to Flemethal in most painting/statues and you know what is amusing about Mythal, some people believe (another DAI codex) that Dumat was just another name of hers...
Well, I was just thinking about what Yavana said --- "when dragons ruled the skies..." Initially, I was hesitant to think that the Ancient Elves could raise the Veil, but now that we know that elves worshipped their deities in the form of dragons, I suppose it's certainly possible. And yet, for them to create something so enormous and all-encompassing is hard for me to grasp.
Considering that it's Elven artifacts that strengthen the Veil, is a good indicator that the Ancient Elves had a hand in creating/separating the Fade and Thedas.
Honestly, it seems to me that most likely it wasn't the "elves" that created the Veil, but Solas who created it. The question is thus a two fold question of how did he get this much power and why did he view it necessary.Well, I was just thinking about what Yavana said --- "when dragons ruled the skies..." Initially, I was hesitant to think that the Ancient Elves could raise the Veil, but now that we know that elves worshipped their deities in the form of dragons, I suppose it's certainly possible. And yet, for them to create something so enormous and all-encompassing is hard for me to grasp.
Check out this image of the Black City in Inquisition.
When you're in the Fade, and you can see the tall towers/ruins in the distance, is that supposed to be the Black City? I was looking for something further away, since the Black City is supposedly equidistant from all other places in the Fade. IIRC, you can get pretty close to those towers.
Well Dwarves seem to be missing the earliest records of their civilization that would presumably be contemporary with the existence of the Fade (see, Primeval Thaig presumably predating all Dwarven records).But Arlathan and ancient Tevinter existed at the same time. If Solas raised the Veil during the last years of Arlathan, wouldn't the Tevinters (and perhaps even the Dwarves) have some legends of the world before the Veil?
Well Dwarves seem to be missing the earliest records of their civilization that would presumably be contemporary with the existence of the Fade (see, Primeval Thaig presumably predating all Dwarven records).
As for Tevinter, it would depend on when precisely the Veil went up. My interpretation is that the Veil is the reason for elves losing their immortality meaning that it occurred at roughly the same time that humans migrated to the continent (I.e., before Tevinter existed and likely before human records began).
Edit: Also should point out that the Chant has an implied creation of the Veil in it, and we don't actually know the Old God creation myth to the best of my knowledge.
I'm just surprised that if there was a time before the Veil, and you can assume that there was no Veil in the whole world, that as far as I can tell, no tale from any culture we know of exists that supports Yavana's claim.
When you're in the Fade, and you can see the tall towers/ruins in the distance, is that supposed to be the Black City? I was looking for something further away, since the Black City is supposedly equidistant from all other places in the Fade. IIRC, you can get pretty close to those towers.
My understanding, and probably stated in a codex entry that I don't have time to look for, is that it's always visible but always just out of reach. So, yes, it looks close, but you can't get there.
That's not true. The chant of light has it. The Maker created the Fade and he later created the real world separate from the Fade. To put it another way, the fade was all that existed and then reality outside of the fade was created at a later time.I'm just surprised that if there was a time before the Veil, and you can assume that there was no Veil in the whole world, that as far as I can tell, no tale from any culture we know of exists that supports Yavana's claim.
Bear in mind though, at this stage, we have entered the Fade physically, so the normal rules about the BC might not necessarily apply.When you're in the Fade, and you can see the tall towers/ruins in the distance, is that supposed to be the Black City? I was looking for something further away, since the Black City is supposedly equidistant from all other places in the Fade. IIRC, you can get pretty close to those towers.
Fair point, but just because they have learned to manipulate the Veil with Magic doesn't necessarily mean that they themselves erected the Veil.Considering that it's Elven artifacts that strengthen the Veil, is a good indicator that the Ancient Elves had a hand in creating/separating the Fade and Thedas.
I think that the endgame of raising the Veil/making the Black City was to contain the Blight. The Veil was the walls of a prison, the Black City the strongest cage possible to contain it.Honestly, it seems to me that most likely it wasn't the "elves" that created the Veil, but Solas who created it. The question is thus a two fold question of how did he get this much power and why did he view it necessary.
My understanding, and probably stated in a codex entry that I don't have time to look for, is that it's always visible but always just out of reach. So, yes, it looks close, but you can't get there.
Alrighty. I guess I just assumed that "distant" meant more far away, and not close but out of reach. And since everything is black ruins in the Fade, I don't know how to tell it apart from the other black ruins.
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