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[Dirth Enansal]

Has any one read the codex entries you get by completing mosaics?  There's some intersting stuff implied there, like the invasion of the black city was motivated somehow by qunari (centuries before they showed up at par vollen), and seemingly a division between the seven magisters, four who were favored, two who did more 'harm than good' and one who 'faked it'.  There's plenty of other stuff (the magisters are depicted a lot), and someone who's less sleep deprived than me could probably draw some interesting conclusions.

 

Also, remember those bluey-grey statues in the primeval thaig?  Is it interesting or relevant that the more abstract one (elgar'nan?) shows up in the fade, both in 'here lies the abyss' and the flemeth meeting, and the bird/ dragon ones which looks similar to mythal's statues are present in the dwarven ruins under crestwood?

[Caddius]

Thanks! But yeah stuff I've already known about the Calling. Unfortunately, where I live stores don't sell Dragon Age merch. And our postal service here is so abysmal I don't dare to order anything online. Haven't seen any digitals on the books either. That theory does seem reasonable. Do we know anything else about the Titans? It could explain why there are only seven archdemons. The Forgotten Ones' souls are trapped in the red lyrium? But where is the Calling Song coming from then? It can't come from the Old Gods (assuming they are not tainted to begin with) so is it coming from lyrium surrounding the Old Gods? 

That sucks.

There's a lot of theories about what the true reason for the Calling is. However, the Old Gods themselves do emit a Calling. A pure, untainted version of the Song. The Wardens attempting to preemptively kill the Old God buried beneath the Western Approach witnessed the Song being so powerful it could be heard physically, and likely caused a cave-in. Old Gods got some lungs. Once tainted, the Song becomes twisted, but it's still hella powerful.

All we know about the Titans is Kieran's comment to a dwarf Inquisitor about how they 'can't be taller without the Titans'. Cole at one point discusses something that the dwarves were cut off from that misses having the dwarves, with the nice little wham line 'You sell it,' to ex-lyrium smuggler Cadash. I'd recommend you find a video of it, as I'm sure I'm losing a lot of the juicy context. The theory I mentioned earlier wasn't that the red lyrium was the Forgotten Ones/Titans, but that lyrium in general was, and red lyrium was the Blighted Titans. Think of it as cancer specific to a part of the body. Hence, the Profane Codexes in the Primeval Thaig in DA2 about how 'they devoured the gods'.

Between the Primeval Thaig and the temples alluded to underneath the 'modern' Deep Roads in The Calling, it's obvious dwarf religion used to be different. We've got scraps of information to puzzle over for now.

As for your comment about the Archdemons' number, I'm not sure I understand. If the theory that they are the elven gods holds true, then it's seven plus the two gods not trapped that we've already met. 

EDIT: WOAH WOAH WOAH, Dirth Enansal, hold the phone! Motivated by Qunari?! YOU MUST LINK ME TO THESE CODEX ENTRIES! ESPECIALLY ABOUT THE MAGISTERS' BELIEFS. I'M NOT SLEEP DEPRIVED.  

I only found the Three Darkspawn and Claw of Dumat Codex entries. Share your knowledge!

I do think you're onto something with the statues. The weird dragon statues present in Crestwood were also in the Brecilian Ruins, which seemed to be a mixture of human and elven elements. There's also been speculation that June was a dwarf, just going off his different size in his pantheon profile picture and the white coloring suggesting a beard. Still pointy-earred, though. It's possible some dwarves worshiped the Creators. It's possible some elves lived underground.

[Dirth Enansal]

http://dragonage.wik...ales:_Sacrifice

http://dragonage.wik...reed_Are_Slaves

http://dragonage.wik...Tales:_Invasion

 

There's another one not on the wiki yet ("archdemon") which I can't be bothered typing up.  There should also be another which no one's been able to unlock because of the twelfth hinterlands mosaic piece

[Caddius]

http://dragonage.wik...ales:_Sacrifice

http://dragonage.wik...reed_Are_Slaves

http://dragonage.wik...Tales:_Invasion

 

There's another one not on the wiki yet ("archdemon") which I can't be bothered typing up.  There should also be another which no one's been able to unlock because of the twelfth hinterlands mosaic piece

I'd give you my firstborn if I had one.

Would you settle for my neighbors' secondborn (you really don't want the first) and ten units of Silverite?

Very, very interesting. The two scratched out would probably be Corypheus and the Architect, if only because they've been the only Magisters we've met so far...

[Poweroftw0]

Here is a thought... Its never realy cobfirmed that Dumat whispered to Corry about entering the black city, he just hears a voice wich he attributes to Dumat. Now we KNOW solas gave his orb to Corry, but Fan'Harel is neither elven god or forgotten one. Fan'Harel sealed away the elves in "the beyond" and "the abyss" respectively. Keep this in mind.

 

Now, one massive breach sized hole in Corry's story is that the city was allready black when he entered BUT we know that mages can explore the fade i  dreams...so youre telling me noone in TEVINTER at any point went "hey look at that cool BLACK city over there in the distance". So either the city wasnt visible in the fade before or its breachinv by the magisters somehow not onlh instantly turned in black but also maxe it omnipresent and equidistant...a "quirck" of geometry.. now since solas/FH wanted Corry to use his orb (whos ONLY fun tion seems to be to open the veil..kinda like a key... to 2 realms where gods are locked) it stand to reason someone ... elfy wanted the city breached the first time around to.

 

Now by the end FH seems if not allyed with mythal, at least to have similar interests, whatever they may be. Is it possible that the black city and golden city are 2 different places that exist in the same place in the fade? And that the magistera fckex up the spell, entered the "forgotten" city instead of the "elven" city and since the fade is an extension of belief basiclay, every believes the golden city turned black and thats why it now superceedes the golden city in the fade?

 

AS to why the blight is there no idea but it sounds like something the "evil" side of a pantheon could create, or maybe its the magisters lust for power instantly made manifest in the "nexus" of the fade. The magisters wanted power from entering the golden city... well the blight is the most destrive force on thaedas.

 

Point is FH wanted into the fade. I CANNOT imagine a reason for him to want the blight tho, so something must have gone wrong but now its safe to try again. Or maybe it was the old gods whospering initialy but it DEFINETLY isnt now, so the questio  is why would FH want to get to the golden / black city?

 

Sry for horrible writing , posting from phone at 7:30 am.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Oh hey sweet, this thread is back. Probably belongs in the Lore Section now, but w/e. I've missed it.

Now, one massive breach sized hole in Corry's story is that the city was allready black when he entered BUT we know that mages can explore the fade i  dreams...so youre telling me noone in TEVINTER at any point went "hey look at that cool BLACK city over there in the distance". So either the city wasnt visible in the fade before or its breachinv by the magisters somehow not onlh instantly turned in black but also maxe it omnipresent and equidistant...a "quirck" of geometry.. now since solas/FH wanted Corry to use his orb (whos ONLY fun tion seems to be to open the veil..kinda like a key... to 2 realms where gods are locked) it stand to reason someone ... elfy wanted the city breached the first time around to.

There was a post from DG that confirmed that mages were aware of the Golden City prior to the incursion. Pretty sure it had its distance quirk before hand also, otherwise people would have entered it beforehand.

 

Now then, as for the "breach sized hole" in Cory's story. I personalyl think that is because people are misinterpreting what Cory says. What he says is "The light. We sought the golden light. You offered... the power of the gods themselves. But it was... black... corrupt. Darkness... ever since. How long?" Note that he says they are seeking the golden light (aka the power of the gods), not the golden city. So when he says it was black, he is referring to the power of the gods not the city. To further support this he states in DAI that he walked the halls of the Golden City, not the Black City. He further states in one of his journals in him and the other Magisters discovered the Darkness and let it permeate their being. Based on that, I think it is pretty clear the Darkness is the blight not the city. So what happened was they entered the Golden City, willingly became Darkspawn believing it to make them gods, and then the blight probably went out of control engulfing the city when it had previously been contained and not visible from the outside.

[Monica21]

Oh hey sweet, this thread is back. Probably belongs in the Lore Section now, but w/e. I've missed it.

There was a post from DG that confirmed that mages were aware of the Golden City prior to the incursion. Pretty sure it had its distance quirk before hand also, otherwise people would have entered it beforehand.

 

Now then, as for the "breach sized hole" in Cory's story. I personalyl think that is because people are misinterpreting what Cory says. What he says is "The light. We sought the golden light. You offered... the power of the gods themselves. But it was... black... corrupt. Darkness... ever since. How long?" Note that he says they are seeking the golden light (aka the power of the gods), not the golden city. So when he says it was black, he is referring to the power of the gods not the city. To further support this he states in DAI that he walked the halls of the Golden City, not the Black City. He further states in one of his journals in him and the other Magisters discovered the Darkness and let it permeate their being. Based on that, I think it is pretty clear the Darkness is the blight not the city. So what happened was they entered the Golden City, willingly became Darkspawn believing it to make them gods, and then the blight probably went out of control engulfing the city when it had previously been contained and not visible from the outside.

 

I actually just played through this part. Cory's memory crystal says something like, "We embraced the darkness. Let it permeate our beings." Which yes, suggests they willingly brought the Blight back from the Fade. I'm wondering if they actually could control it though. It did make them more powerful, but were they unable to make the rest of humanity understand what they were doing? He still seems very sure that taking in the darkness was not a mistake and was done purposefully and yet, "They spit on our names." I'm not sure if that's just arrogance at petty mortals not understanding the will of someone who tried to ascend to god-hood, or if there was something else they were trying to accomplish.

[Poweroftw0]

  Now then, as for the "breach sized hole" in Cory's story. I personalyl think that is because people are misinterpreting what Cory says. What he says is "The light. We sought the golden light. You offered... the power of the gods themselves. But it was... black... corrupt. Darkness... ever since. How long?" Note that he says they are seeking the golden light (aka the power of the gods), not the golden city. So when he says it was black, he is referring to the power of the gods not the city. To further support this he states in DAI that he walked the halls of the Golden City, not the Black City. He further states in one of his journals in him and the other Magisters discovered the Darkness and let it permeate their being. Based on that, I think it is pretty clear the Darkness is the blight not the city. So what happened was they entered the Golden City, willingly became Darkspawn believing it to make them gods, and then the blight probably went out of control engulfing the city when it had previously been contained and not visible from the outside.

 

Granted , the blight could have been contained somewhere inside the city , all the magisters understood of it was that it was a form of power and took it into themselves, and after its release from whatever it was being kept in, it corrupted the rest of the city. However, isn't it cannon that the blight only permeats living things? why would it it "infect" a city?

 

Besides the bigger issue i was trying to point out isn't the corruption of the city itsself or what the magisters found there or anything like that, it was who sent them in the first place. The first trip is up for debate, tho we KNOW the second attempt was only made possible because Fan'Heral "missplaced" his orb. So my question remains. Was the first trip some kind of fluke? Is the golden city an elven (not Arlathan itsself tho for reasons i don't want to ramble on about) armory or prison? Were they suposed to find something else but the Blight was the first thing that caught their eye? And why does FH want to go back to the city? If it wasn't elvish influence that lead to the first breaching of the city, what is there left to find now?

 

There's also the passage from Here lyes the abyss , the one in wich corrypheus tells his elvish sevant that there is power in his blood, needed to reach the golden city. I know it has been interpreted as Corry just explaining to a "dimwit" that blood in general has power not elvish blood specificaly but what if they actualy needed elven blood to do it? I mean it is an elven artefact that opened the veil a 2nd time.

 

Also something: there has been some disscusion as to wether the old gods are separate entities from the forgotten ones / elvish pantheon. Well, The dread wolf is allways described as something.... inbetween, something neutral, like a balancing force, neither Elven god nor Forgotten one. Also we are told the elven pantheon warred with the forgotten ones before fan'harel locked them both away, as in an the stereotipical neverending war that no side can win thill someone interveenes.

What if the old gods are that balancing force in the "war in heaven?" Think about it, its allways been suspicious how the old gods essentialy want to be slaves to the blight in exchange for freedom? Well they're basicaly trading one form of imprisonment for another arn't they? Maybe the old gods could have been the allies of the elven pantheon, the tiping point and the blight was created by the forgotten ones to stop that alliance. 

 

PS. I realized i made the elven pantheon seem righteos wich isn't the case , the have enough shades of grey of their own. Point was that the old gods might be the tiping point to the war on havean and one side of the war wanted the magisters to retrieve something from the city to aid / hamper the Old gods from joining the conflict.

[Monica21]

Granted , the blight could have been contained somewhere inside the city , all the magisters understood of it was that it was a form of power and took it into themselves, and after its release from whatever it was being kept in, it corrupted the rest of the city. However, isn't it cannon that the blight only permeats living things? why would it it "infect" a city?

 

 

The city is made of lyrium? Obviously I'm just guessing here, but I don't think it's a bad guess.

[Poweroftw0]

The city is made of lyrium? Obviously I'm just guessing here, but I don't think it's a bad guess.

 

Wouldn't it be The Red City now then? Slight joke aside, who would build a CITY out of lyrium and send it in the fade? as we know its dangerous to work with even for dwarves / tranquil, never mind "normal" people. Also what would be point assuming it can be done? As far as i know lyrium doesn't "dampen" anything, as in it wouldn't work like lead shielding for anything..... it amplifies magic, but "true" gods would need a _MASSIVE_ mana battery would they?

 

Now that i think about it, do we have any referance to when lyrium was FIRST discovered? we know the dwarves controll it and trade it to everyone, but is there some kind lore entry stating when they first found it? And before red lyrium started growing everywhere it was only found deep underground right?

[myahele]

Another thing that's also Tainted was Merill's eluvian. So perhaps whatever the eluvian was made of could also be of the same material as the rest of the Golden City?

 

A theory I have is that the Tevinter Old God's are just merely Great Dragons that contain a piece of a soul of an elven god (similar to Cory and his dragon)

 

Once Fen'Harel sealed the Elven God's up these dragons ended going into a deep sleep as well due to this "bond". This "calling" is the elven god's way to call out to their followers for help, but to no avail. Eventually they resorted to human's. While "Dumat" and crew wanted to be free this isn't how it was supposed to be.

 

It was mentioned that Dumat stopped talking to Cory for a LONG time (human years) and all of a sudden he heard "go to the golden city"

 

My guess is that voice could've been one of the Forbidden One's interfering and using this opportunity trick Cory and have him spread their Taint into the world and especially into their Elven God enemies.

 

Afterall, these magister's are already attuned to their calling, so once they got tainted they still mindlessly hone into the Calling, thus tainting them as well.

[Monica21]

Wouldn't it be The Red City now then? Slight joke aside, who would build a CITY out of lyrium and send it in the fade? as we know its dangerous to work with even for dwarves / tranquil, never mind "normal" people. Also what would be point assuming it can be done? As far as i know lyrium doesn't "dampen" anything, as in it wouldn't work like lead shielding for anything..... it amplifies magic, but "true" gods would need a _MASSIVE_ mana battery would they?

 

Now that i think about it, do we have any referance to when lyrium was FIRST discovered? we know the dwarves controll it and trade it to everyone, but is there some kind lore entry stating when they first found it? And before red lyrium started growing everywhere it was only found deep underground right?

 

Well, I don't know. I mean, it's in the Fade now. And maybe it's not lyrium per se, but something like it? If everything was magic at one point and there was no Fade, maybe lyrium wasn't in the form we see it in now. When Solas is talking about crystal spires winding through trees, what is he talking about? Is it some kind of lyrium?

 

And yeah, I'm totally just throwing stuff at the wall to see if anything sticks.But the question remains, if a city isn't alive, how can it be corrupted?

[Poweroftw0]

Well, I don't know. I mean, it's in the Fade now. And maybe it's not lyrium per se, but something like it? If everything was magic at one point and there was no Fade, maybe lyrium wasn't in the form we see it in now. When Solas is talking about crystal spires winding through trees, what is he talking about? Is it some kind of lyrium?

 

And yeah, I'm totally just throwing stuff at the wall to see if anything sticks.But the question remains, if a city isn't alive, how can it be corrupted?

 

Think you might have found a future retcon...

 

*sigh* The franchise has been way to skitzofrenic when it comes to lyrium and magic. You need lyrium to do any kind of magic... but wait blood will do as well! Then aparently the blight itself can fuel magic, and in inquisition they're pushing the direction that no, drawing energy from the fade fuels magic!

 

The wierd part is, i don't realy get the POINT even of red lyrium in Inquisition. Corrypheus wants to tear the veil and enter the fade physicaly, to do this he uses the elven orb and maybe a blood sacrifice. It's his army that uses red lyrium, ow and btw, a forbbiden one (who should have no conection whatsoever to the blight) is the "gardener" of the red lyrium... huh? So red lyrium, is lyrium infected with blight, that a VERY powerfull demon, who first thought humans blood magic, wants to see spread across the world, and that's pretty much it... it's used to creat an army and power-up mere mortals to monstrous levels, but for the ultimate goal of get orb, enter fade, become god, it seems to serve no real pourpouse.

 

 

Another thing that's also Tainted was Merill's eluvian. So perhaps whatever the eluvian was made of could also be of the same material as the rest of the Golden City?

 

A theory I have is that the Tevinter Old God's are just merely Great Dragons that contain a piece of a soul of an elven god (similar to Cory and his dragon)

 

Once Fen'Harel sealed the Elven God's up these dragons ended going into a deep sleep as well due to this "bond". This "calling" is the elven god's way to call out to their followers for help, but to no avail. Eventually they resorted to human's. While "Dumat" and crew wanted to be free this isn't how it was supposed to be.

 

It was mentioned that Dumat stopped talking to Cory for a LONG time (human years) and all of a sudden he heard "go to the golden city"

 

My guess is that voice could've been one of the Forbidden One's interfering and using this opportunity trick Cory and have him spread their Taint into the world and especially into their Elven God enemies.

 

Afterall, these magister's are already attuned to their calling, so once they got tainted they still mindlessly hone into the Calling, thus tainting them as well.

 

I think the Calling itself will end up being a big twist later down the line, it never realy made sens to me, only blighted creatures can hear it, but it's never in any way said that Old Gods want to become archdemons...

 

But the Old gods being the elven gods... not to sure about that, Mythal's soul found Flemeth after Mythal was murdered and even then it was but a faint fragment of itself, other things aside, you'd have to die, for someone else to inherit your soul, and as far as we know none of the other gods are dead, just locked away somewhere.