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[Colonelkillabee]

What if the blight itself is the essence or spark of an old god trying to forcefully take a new vessel? That would explain the collective mind, and why old gods getting the taint makes archdemons. Effecting dreams, that's the stuff of the fade, no?

[Hellion Rex]

All of the elven gods aren't worth saving because of infighting, so the ones he sealed away were, and while the Golden City may indeed be a quarantine zone, I find it hard to believe this was actually when the split between this world and the Fade happened. Humans already were in some number in Thedas. The Veil clearly existed then already. The betrayal had not yet happened, and Tevinter was still some backwater tribe. The elven gods likely weren't sealed away until the Imperium's conquests began.

I agree. I think the Veil's creation took place a long, long time before the Black City was put up.

 

Now, I think the Black City is certainly a type of magic that the ancient elves could pull off, but the Veil itself and creation of the Fade? Something that binds together every sentient race through dreams (except dwarves)? I don't even think they had that level of power.

[Jaison1986]

All of the elven gods aren't worth saving because of infighting, so the ones he sealed away were, and while the Golden City may indeed be a quarantine zone, I find it hard to believe this was actually when the split between this world and the Fade happened. Humans already were in some number in Thedas. The Veil clearly existed then already. The betrayal had not yet happened, and Tevinter was still some backwater tribe. The elven gods likely weren't sealed away until the Imperium's conquests began.

 

I don't know about the elven gods, especially considering Mythal is also free, inside Flemeth's body. But I believe the Forgotten ones might be the Old gods themselves. Remember the elven legend "the Dread Wolf Fen'Harel was said to have tricked both sets of gods: locking the Forgotten Ones away from the world in their realm of the abyss" sounds like the old gods being trapped in the deep roads. Not to mention is not unlikely for people to worship dragons as gods. Still, doesn't explain why only the old gods can become archdemons.

[Hellion Rex]

But why would Solas have access to these ancient mass effect field generated stabilizer globe things that can manipulate the Veil? This not only implies the Veil is an artificial construct, but a technology (or as technological as you can get in medieval fantasy) based one.

You misunderstand. I think the Veil is an artificlal construct yes, but one made by something older and more powerful than the elves. And just because they can strengthen and manipulate the Veil does not mean that they created it.

[Colonelkillabee]

But why would Solas have access to these ancient mass effect field generated stabilizer globe things that can manipulate the Veil? This not only implies the Veil is an artificial construct, but a technology (or as technological as you can get in medieval fantasy) based one.

Just because you can manipulate something with a magical item doesn't mean it's sustained or created by them.

[Hellion Rex]

I'd like to call attention to the picture below. Did anyone read this and think of darkspawn?

[Jazzpha]

The Formless One is kin to the Forbidden Ones. And the last one left if you killed Imshael at Suledin. What I find interesting is that Imshael calls on Gaxkang and Xebenkeck when he's about to die. 

 

The Forbidden Ones are reminiscent of the Four Horsemen. Maybe they're Lieutenants to Draconis, the mysterious Eight Old God. (More random speculation). 

 

Oh right, I meant we don't know who they are in terms of the personification, not so much what they represent/their function. I assumed Flemeth was The Formless One before DAI, and that pet theory got nuked.

[Jaison1986]

I'd like to call attention to the picture below. Did anyone read this and think of darkspawn?

 

When I read the word "workers" it reminds me more of ghouls.

[Jazzpha]

I'd like to call attention to the picture below. Did anyone read this and think of darkspawn?

 

Very interesting indeed. The imprisoned Old Gods as 'Pillars of the Earth'? Man, this mythos just keeps getting better. Screw DA4, just give me a DA Silmarillion and we'll call it even.

[Dean_the_Young]

In case y'all didn't see this. These are the "unreadable" elven writings in the Temple of Mythal, that become translated if you personally drink from the Well.

 

 

Excellent find, Eluvianus. I hadn't seen any of these before.

 

 

 

 

Here we see what seems an obvious reference to shape-shifting magic. That the sinner was property (presumably a tatooed elf) and still able to use magic reinforces that even as the ancient elves had a slavery system, all elves were capable of magic. However, it appears certain types of magic are forbidden- in this case, transformation into a certain form.

 

Going by the daughter of Flemeth who says that before the Veil, that Dragons ruled, and how Flemeth herself (a 'god') was able to transform into a High Dragon, and that the ancient Tevinter worshipped the Old Gods as dragons, it may be that High Dragon transformations were the exclusive rights of the gods.

 

What's also interesting to note is the nature of the crime, and it's response. Each elven god had its followers and property, and are insinuated to have been secure enough in their position that they could render judgements on the property of other gods. Flemeth/Mythal did not, for whatever reasons, but the fact that the supplicant was even permitted to try (and that elven rituals were a matter of years) tells of a formalized sphere of influence system that recognized property and standards from the fellow members.

 

But note the nature of the crime- that transformation into certain forms could be regarded as high treason by the pantheon Mythal represented. This may suggest a possible grievance of the elven pantheons to their rivals, the Formless (and presumably unapproved shapeshifter) Ones.

 

 

What we get here is a religious justifcation for eradication of earth-workers. I thought Dwarves at first, actually, but Darkspawn works as well.

 

There are two interesting points here. One is the claim of making the earth blossom with their passing. It could be purely figurative, but if literal it would be a inversion of the Blight itself, which makes the earth wither and die with each passing. If there is any literalism to it, this would suggest that elven magics did and could include involuntary physical tampering and changes to unwilling others (as opposed to voluntary self-shape shifting).

 

The other is the vivid image of overlapping spheres. Spheres of influence? Magical traditions or influence? Lyrium (or 'The Stone') remains a completely separate magical tradition associated with the underground.

 

Come to think of it, the Ancient Tevinter and Ancient Dwarves were pretty close allies, to the point that the Dwarves crushed those amongst them who dared support elven refugees... perhaps a new front in a pantheon fight?

 

This supplication for mercy from a terrible (and shiney) weapon, stored in a shaft of gold, indicates prior awareness of a terrible cataclysm in potential. Something so terrible, that even in advance prayers for salvation were being made by the followers of the same elven god.

 

With the use of the term 'golden', and 'stored,' an easily reachable conclusion is the Golden City, where the Blight emerged from when Tevinter Magisters went in search of 'the power of the gods.' This would suggest deliberate effort, in creation and storage, of the Blight.

 

What it doesn't explain, or not clearly, is the idea of a spear. A magical artifact that may still be in the Black City? How about the nature of the corruption- Darkspawn typically aren't associated with Golden in any form. Was the golden spear later corrupted?

 

 

This is obviously post-cataclysm, post-Mythal, when the priesthood survived the departure of their god.

 

What's interesting here is the reference of 'shed my new one.' An allusion to ritualized possesion-transference, such as used by Flemeth and her ancient, elven magics?

[Dean_the_Young]

never mind- combined with above

[Jazzpha]

Dean, perhaps the Golden Spear is related to the weapon Fen'Harel used as a bargaining chip to convince the upper and lower 'Gods' to stop feuding? I'm inclined to agree with your corruption idea, but considering we've seen history of Andruil and Fen'Harel's complex relationship before (from Felassan, the story of Fen'Harel bound to a tree and forced to serve Andruil for a year), maybe Fen'Harel built the weapon for Andruil as power capital to hold as leverage over the other 'Gods', but then things went south and the Spear got corrupted?

[Hellion Rex]

Excellent find, Eluvianus. I hadn't seen any of these before.

 

 

 

 

Here we see what seems an obvious reference to shape-shifting magic. That the sinner was property (presumably a tatooed elf) and still able to use magic reinforces that even as the ancient elves had a slavery system, all elves were capable of magic. However, it appears certain types of magic are forbidden- in this case, transformation into a certain form.

 

Going by the daughter of Flemeth who says that before the Veil, that Dragons ruled, and how Flemeth herself (a 'god') was able to transform into a High Dragon, and that the ancient Tevinter worshipped the Old Gods as dragons, it may be that High Dragon transformations were the exclusive rights of the gods.

 

What's also interesting to note is the nature of the crime, and it's response. Each elven god had its followers and property, and are insinuated to have been secure enough in their position that they could render judgements on the property of other gods. Flemeth/Mythal did not, for whatever reasons, but the fact that the supplicant was even permitted to try (and that elven rituals were a matter of years) tells of a formalized sphere of influence system that recognized property and standards from the fellow members.

 

But note the nature of the crime- that transformation into certain forms could be regarded as high treason by the pantheon Mythal represented. This may suggest a possible grievance of the elven pantheons to their rivals, the Formless (and presumably unapproved shapeshifter) Ones.

Yassssss, Dean. I love watching you theorize about all of this juicy lore.

 

And I totally agree with your analysis of it all. Is it possible that the Old Gods (the rival pantheon) went to Tevinter after being cast out/struck down by the "good" pantheon? And their biggest attempt at revenge was the Breaching into the Fade?

[Br3admax]

True. But it seems to be inextricably connected to elves to the point where Solas' Wolf-senses tingle when he's near one. Maybe just the artifacts and not the Veil itself *shrugs*.

 

I know tribal humans still tell tales of when the Veil didn't exist.

 

"Runes tell a primitive creation myth of how the lands of gods and men were cut apart."

Elves being connected to the Veil could just as easily mean that whatever created it created them to watch over it. 

In words of the wisest woman I've ever known, "The Veil is girlish here." 

[Colonelkillabee]

Dumat is the strongest and highest of the old gods. Dumah, angel of silence was the chief of the demons. Perhaps Dumat has some control or leadership over demonic spirits as well, hence why Corypheus could wield them.

 

Dumat granted blood magic and was credited with giving the Tevinter this knowledge. Demons also can grant this power....

 

If Dumat and the old gods sent his magisters to the black city, knowing what it contained, then it is possible that Dumat purposefully sought the blight, right? It corrupts him but it gives him power and awakens him from his slumber to wreak havoc on the world, and the taint is something that can be held in the blood, containing some power that can be harvested. Blood magic also has a tie in with the blood.

 

It's also worth reminding that Dumat still exists in some shape or form today evidenced by Corypheus in DA 2. But he chooses to ignore him in the end of the game Inquisition.

 

Funnily enough, he does this in the game that Corypheus tries to put his essence into the form of a Dragon. Worth noting with the information above about this high crime to the elven gods.

 

So yes, I believe the old gods indeed sought revenge against the elven gods, and I think they also sought the blight for its power. I think the blight itself is the form of something much older than anything though. Some god who was contained in the fade as the black city by the other gods and was purposefully breached by trickery of the Tevinter's own gods.

 

This may just be coincidence, but the last time someone managed to seal away someone related to the blight that was godlike himself, it was gold:

 

 

 

The golden city may very well have been elven after all, gold for the magic used to contain this entity. Something very powerful but now dead. "Maker" esque, and that can't really die, and is fighting desperately to find a form and continue existing. This explains the blight's power, the whispers like that of the other gods, and so on.

[Colonelkillabee]

Also, demonic possession looks really fuggly like darkspawn do. The taint being a form of possession, weak possession of a now dead ancient god kind of makes sense, especially with Dumat's own tie with Demons and blood.

 

And of course Corypheus.

 

 

edit: Also, worth noting that Corypheus was sealed with the power of blood by mages.

[Br3admax]

Nah, the Taint is foreign to entities of the Fade. They don't work similarly, though the effects of both are comparable. 

[Colonelkillabee]

It could be, but then there's the idea that the old gods actually call to those that are tainted with the blood of the blight. What is that link?

[Colonelkillabee]

In fact, there was a text that had grey wardens hunting for the old gods, and they could hear their song so clearly in the deep roads that it shook and vibrated everything near. The blood and old gods are indeed linked. They wish to be woken.