412 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Based on some of Cory's journals in the Calpernia nemesis mission, I strongly doubt that the Old Gods had anything to do with the attempt to enter the Black City. Basically Cory was having a crisis of faith in Dumat because he could hear nothing from Dumat and then he suddenly heard a whisper in the back of his mind telling him to go to the Golden City. I think it is more likely the whisper was from a third party who wanted to spread the blight rather than any of the Gods.

 

Huh?

 

I'm fairly sure Corypheus's quotes about not hearing Dumat all refer to post-DA2. At which point Dumat has been dead a thousand years. Cole describes his crisis of faith in contemporary terms, but I can't find anything to indicate he didn't commune and hear 'Dumat' before the Golden City breach.

[Dean_the_Young]

The red lyrium is blighted though. Did the egg come before the chicken, or?

 

The better question is why no one knew Red Lyrium existed, despite multiple Blights and presumed exposure. Considering how Red Lyrium will self-spread, if casual Blight contact could infect it, it would already be known across Thedas.

 

I suspect that the Blight did not create Red Lyrium, but rather the other way around (however indirectly).

[Colonelkillabee]

Yep, the thing that grants so much power, locked away in what he called the maker's throne.

 

But then of course, he also says "It was supposed to be Golden! It was supposed to be ours!"

 

So it seems likely that he didn't know what it was initially.

[Colonelkillabee]

The better question is why no one knew Red Lyrium existed, despite multiple Blights and presumed exposure. Considering how Red Lyrium will self-spread, if casual Blight contact could infect it, it would already be known across Thedas.

 

I suspect that the Blight did not create Red Lyrium, but rather the other way around (however indirectly).

They did say that lyrium was a thing alive, just like the blights seem to be. That just confuses things even further though.

[Br3admax]

Huh?

 

I'm fairly sure Corypheus's quotes about not hearing Dumat all refer to post-DA2. At which point Dumat has been dead a thousand years. Cole describes his crisis of faith in contemporary terms, but I can't find anything to indicate he didn't commune and hear 'Dumat' before the Golden City breach.

The religion of the Old Gods was on the decline, but they could still hear them in dreams. 

[Jaison1986]

But when you think about it, it does feel like an plot hole. How come no one ever saw red lyrium before the events of DA2? Wouldn't it make sense for the darkspawn to taint all the lyrium they come in contact with while traveling the deep roads?

[Dean_the_Young]

Nah. If the Blight predates the siege on the Black City then it's not an "Old God" thing. Maybe Dean's right and the Old Gods wanted it from themselves, but I'm not sold on that either. Specifically because Morrigan and by extent Flemeth devised the Dark Ritual to "free" it from the Taint implying it was an involuntary transformation.

 

I think an applicable answer here would be the classic trope of 'gone horribly right.'

 

The Old Gods know of the great power in the Golden City. The Old Gods want it for themselves, thinking that they can master it. The Old Gods tell their magisters how to get to it. What the Old Gods don't know is how the power will interact with the magisters, and instead of mastering the power they are mastered by it.

 

Moral allegory preserved.

 

 

Alternatively, Morrigan and Flemeth want the Old Gods cleansed for their own reasons, regardless of whether or not the Old Gods wanted it. The interests of the three hardly need to be united.
 

[Ozzy]

Huh?

 

I'm fairly sure Corypheus's quotes about not hearing Dumat all refer to post-DA2. At which point Dumat has been dead a thousand years. Cole describes his crisis of faith in contemporary terms, but I can't find anything to indicate he didn't commune and hear 'Dumat' before the Golden City breach.

There's a journal from one of his servants that mentions Corypheus starts panicking because he can't hear Dumat IIRC.  

 

Imma go check.

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, when you put it like that failure would be a mark of honor among the Dalish.

 

*waits for witty comment implying Dalish are already failures*

 

Yo Dalish mama failed so hard, Fen'Harel left her.

 

Yo Dalish mama so fat, Fen'Harel was like, 'look lady, let me tell you the truth about why we can't be together.'

 

Yo Dalish mama so bad, she slept with Fen'Harel and gave birth to a human.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Huh?

I'm fairly sure Corypheus's quotes about not hearing Dumat all refer to post-DA2. At which point Dumat has been dead a thousand years. Cole describes his crisis of faith in contemporary terms, but I can't find anything to indicate he didn't commune and hear 'Dumat' before the Golden City breach.

The dialogue that I am thinking of is one of Cory's journals in the area for Under Her Skin. I suppose I could be remembering the dialogue wrong, but what I remember is that he couldn't hear Dumat and then he heard a whisper to go to the Golden City that he attributed to Dumat.

Edit: And the quote I was thinking of was not in the journals....fudge. I know I heard him say something like that, but now I have no idea as to where so I have no way of finding it to present as evidence. x_x

[Dean_the_Young]

The religion of the Old Gods was on the decline, but they could still hear them in dreams. 

 

Right- that just counters what the person I quoted was saying, which was that the Old Gods weren't saying anything.

 

I'll happily wait for someone to find that codex. I can't play DAI for another two weeks, and didn't see it on the DA wiki.
 

[Colonelkillabee]

Yo Dalish mama failed so hard, Fen'Harel left her.

 

Yo Dalish mama so fat, Fen'Harel was like, 'look lady, let me tell you the truth about why we can't be together.'

 

Yo Dalish mama so bad, she slept with Fen'Harel and gave birth to a human.

 

Yo Dalish mama so ugly, Fen'Harel removed her tattoos and still left her. Lol, the wolf gave her fashion tips and still said, "Naaaaa, I'm out."

[Sister Squish]

There's a journal from one of his servants that mentions Corypheus starts panicking because he can't hear Dumat IIRC.  

 

Imma go check.

 

This one? 

http://dragonage.wik..._Claws_of_Dumat

[Dean_the_Young]

This one? 

http://dragonage.wik..._Claws_of_Dumat

 

Interesting, but nothing to suggest demonic whispers rather than old gods as the source of inspiration for the Golden City raid.

[Dean_the_Young]

Yo Dalish mama so ugly, Fen'Harel removed her tattoos and still left her. Lol, the wolf gave her fashion tips and still said, "Naaaaa, I'm out."

 

Yo Dalish mama so stupid, she talked about elven history and Fen'Harel disapproved and walked away in shame.

[Br3admax]

Exactly right. As I said, his religion was on the decline, so he spent more and more time trying to bring it back. Nothing suggests that Dumat stopped talking to them, and he most certainly continued to after they became darkspawn. 

[Ozzy]

This one? 

http://dragonage.wik..._Claws_of_Dumat

Yessir. 

 

Welp, looks like I misremembered regarding good ol Dumat. 

 

Still a great codex piece regardless. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Yo Dalish mama so stupid, she talked about elven history and Fen'Harel disapproved and walked away in shame.

 

Yo Dalish mama so stupid, she asked Fen'Harel to help the elves. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Colonelkillabee]

Since this is defacto lore central of the day I'm wondering if anyone caught the Andraste's Wyvern statue in Crestwood. Yet another notch under my "Andraste was Dumat" theory. That or she drank some Mythal juice.

 

"Ahh, tastes dragony."

 

And when the Maker spoke...

I don't know about Dumat, but her having a tie to an elven god wouldn't surprise me if true, since she was combating the Tevinter after Dumat's blight.

[Clockwork_Wings]

Since this is defacto lore central of the day I'm wondering if anyone caught the Andraste's Wyvern statue in Crestwood. Yet another notch under my "Andraste was Dumat" theory. That or she drank some Mythal juice.

 

"Ahh, tastes dragony."

 

And when the Maker spoke...

Someone had a theory she was an OGB and body-hopped into Hessarian. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Since this is defacto lore central of the day I'm wondering if anyone caught the Andraste's Wyvern statue in Crestwood. Yet another notch under my "Andraste was Dumat" theory. That or she drank some Mythal juice.

 

"Ahh, tastes dragony."

 

And when the Maker spoke...

 

 

Yessir. 

 

Welp, looks like I misremembered regarding good ol Dumat. 

 

Still a great codex piece regardless. 

 

All is good. Brought good info to light.

[Colonelkillabee]

Here's a breakdown. Add in Andraste's Wyvern and things get even Old Godier.

What would be funny is if Andraste was a daughter of Flemythal, and she took her body. So if we drank from the well, we'd really be following Andraste's footsteps after all.

 

Either way, I do think that Andraste was involved with something other than the maker, mainly because I think the maker's dead. At best, his will may still effect the motivations of other spirits in ways we'll never know.