Aller au contenu

Photo

What happened at the end ? Spoilers


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
78 réponses à ce sujet

#26
fcedric

fcedric
  • Members
  • 1 056 messages

Oh well the mods took care of it, I see. The problem is that there are multiple spots on the main page which show the title as someone mentioned before. I'll be nice and give my interpretation of the scene now.

 

Flemeth was acting as the goddess of vengeance she is. Clearly, Solas/Fen'Haril did something horrible wrong, twice. First by doing whatever he did during the time of the elves (most likely locking up the other gods thus dooming the elves) or just recently by handing over the orb to Corypheus. As Mythal is a goddess of vengeance she is forced to act against Fen'Haril for the loss of life he has caused or for his actions against the other gods. Fen'Haril then acts in self defense by killing her. At the same time he is probably re-energizing himself with the essence of a 'goddess', after all he complained that he only awoke recently and isn't as strong as he was. He probably went looking for Mythal (realizing she was still alive after the Well of Sorrow events) because after Plan A (Corypheus) failed to bring him the power he was looking for this seemed like the best option.

 

Yet he doesn't seem to notice that just before him arriving Flemeth/Mythal has send part of herself through the eluvian thus probably surviving whatever Fen'Hanril did to her.

Good point  but I can't imagine Solas was so selfish, i can't imagine him doing something really bad against People of Thedas   .. After all, he stay with inquisition to fight Corypheus

When we talk with Solas (as an Dalish inquisitor) about the ancient Elvens and the actual Dalish, he explain the Dalish have interpreted history and re-arranged elven/gods/human/ history it as they want across the elven generations... 

Supposition : may be Mythal was the beloved of Fen'harel, as you can see he is very familiar with her... (and could explain the fen'harel statue in mythal temple)

 

A small voice in my ears tell me  Fen'harel was the only elven god which take care about mortals and elvens... and dalish wrote an history about him totally false...



#27
LadyWench

LadyWench
  • Members
  • 689 messages

Yeah, they say multiple times that the Dalish lore isn't accurate. Flemeth even says Mythal was betrayed by someone other than Fen'Harel, and her temple certainly implies that there was a closer connection between the two gods than what any modern elves know of. I don't know that I agree that Solas is inherently evil, it seems elvhen history is GREATLY misunderstood, which means Fen'Harel and his actions could be completely misunderstood or even wrongly recorded by the Dalish. Which makes none of these interpretations impossible...interesting stuff, but no answers to be found outside the next canonical chapter, it seems. :)


  • fcedric et Kappa Neko aiment ceci

#28
sch1986

sch1986
  • Members
  • 487 messages

Well that's not true. Flemeth personally says that she has carried Mythal through the ages. That doesn't sound like she has been body-hopping at all.

We don't know that Flemeth actually needs to body hop, we don't know that her age matters at all. More than one character has extended their life through magic. Being host to an elven goddess might well have this consequence. Possessed Wynne certainly survived a whole lot longer than she should have.

What we DO know, is that Flemeth (or Mythal?) cannot take the body of the unwilling. We also know that the Dread Wolf said that he *should* be the one to bear the consequences, but the People, they NEED him. Does that sound like someone who is willing to be possessed, to you?

Did you play origins? I will admit, my memory of origins can be foggy because it's been so long since I played it.

BUT I do believe at some point we are told that Flemeth possess the bodies of her daughters in order to extend her life. (You even said "she can't possess the bodies of the unwilling" - clearly she does do some kind of "body hopping")

http://dragonage.wik...s_Real_Grimoire

^^ This link explains where my theory came from.

And yes, if he said he should be the one to bear the consequences, that does sound like a willing victim.

Also- I don't really know who the people are that need Solas... This part sort of sounds like perhaps your inquisitor just suffered a terribly tragic romance. In fact this sounds like something Bioware would totally do- throw in a supremely tragic romance where you possibly have to kill your LI at the end.

*cough cough Anders cough*

#29
Norwood06

Norwood06
  • Members
  • 387 messages

Well that's not true. Flemeth personally says that she has carried Mythal through the ages. That doesn't sound like she has been body-hopping at all.

We don't know that Flemeth actually needs to body hop, we don't know that her age matters at all. More than one character has extended their life through magic. Being host to an elven goddess might well have this consequence. Possessed Wynne certainly survived a whole lot longer than she should have.

 

What we DO know, is that Flemeth (or Mythal?) cannot take the body of the unwilling. We also know that the Dread Wolf said that he *should* be the one to bear the consequences, but the People, they NEED him. Does that sound like someone who is willing to be possessed, to you?

 

You make good points...as much as I don't like it, your presentation here undermines my hope that she overcame Solas.  Disappointing...she was the most interesting thing about DA for me. 

 

The only problem with what you're saying against body hopping is Xeon, from the DA2 Black Emporium DLC.  If flemeth was immortal thanks to Mythal but didn't body hop for more than a few hundred years, she'd be completely withered and immobile like Xeon was, no?  http://dragonage.wik...he_Antiquarian 

 

And in support of that, Morrigan in DAO says she remembered Flemeth being younger when Morrigan was a child.  Flemeth's body ages like any other mortal body, and as the Warden demonstrated, can be killed just as easily. 

 

In DA2 I think Flemeth confirms this to Hawke at Sundermount, saying something like 'bodies are so limiting,' 'why be in only one place at a time?'  Maybe it's due to the well of sorrows, but I think Mythal, and maybe Flemeth's soul along with it, is more mobile than you think.  



#30
hazarkazra

hazarkazra
  • Members
  • 186 messages

Good point  but I can't imagine Solas was so selfish, i can't imagine him doing something really bad against human   .. After all, he stay with inquisition to fight Corypheus

When we talk with Solas (as an Dalish inquisitor) about the ancient Elvens and the actual Dalish, he explain the Dalish have interpreted history and re-arranged elven/gods/human/ history it as they want across the elven generations... 

Supposition : may be Mythal was the beloved of Fen'harel, as you can see he is very familiar with her... (and could explain the fen'harel statue in mythal temple)

 

A small voice in my ears tell me  Fen'harel was the only elven god which take care about mortals and elvens... and dalish wrote an history about him totally false...

 

Well I feel like that's why they both say they are sorry. Mythal knows she can't have Fen'Harel get away with what it did, but Fen'Harel feels like he can't undergo the punishment because he feels he needs to help the People (which are the elves). So while they both care about each other very much, they can't both succeed. I think their relationship is surely more complicated. Because uhm, Solas was pretty angry at me for drinking from the pool. If he truly cared and trusted Mythal he wouldn't feel so strongly about it being a horrible idea. The writers even say that there is supposed to be a scene of solas begging you not to drink from the pool but it's failing to trigger. But like he really really doesn't want you to have anything to do with Mythal. So whatever was between them has passed I think.

 

Like I feel like he locked away the Gods to protect the Elves, but it just let to a lot of infighting instead of unity and equality among the elves, as he had hoped. The elves turned on each other and then the Tevinter Imperium finished them off. He 'recently' awoke and found the Dalish and the City elfs and they are just a shadow of the elves he knew. The guilt must be killing him and I think Solas/Fen'Harel is now determined to fix it.

 

And Solas was only part of the Inquisition because it served his goal, not really out of the goodness of his heart.. Depending on your interactions with him as the Inquisitor he might feel respect or love for the inquisitor, perhaps even change his outlook, but he still only there to clean up the mess he created. He was also really hoping to get his hands on the orb he gave away.


  • LadyWench et Green Wyvern aiment ceci

#31
PsyrenY

PsyrenY
  • Members
  • 5 238 messages

Two words and an acronym: Wolf Hunt DLC  :P


  • cheydancer aime ceci

#32
vometia

vometia
  • Members
  • 2 721 messages

Two words and an acronym: Wolf Hunt DLC  :P


I thought you said "Two Worlds" for a moment. "er... forsooth!" etc.

#33
Obsidian Gryphon

Obsidian Gryphon
  • Members
  • 2 411 messages

Actually she never intended that faith for morrigan. While i was 50-50 about what happened i believe solas absorbed flemeth, i think that because last wall painting in skyhold depicts a wolf standing over a downed dragon who has a sword in the back

 

That's not what showed in mine... mine looked like it had a dragon bowing to a huge foot with a sword either planted in the foot OR a sword planted between two feet you're just not able to see the other foot because it's behind.

I only REALLY paid attention to this in the second playthrough where I had an elf mage romance Solas.  Now I'm wondering if I go back in to my other two playthroughs what's there.  I know some of the scenes can and do change, like one is different if you side with the mages instead of the templars.

I think I'm going to go and look at it now because now I'm really curious.  Also that one didn't seem fully finished or at the very least it was the least decorative and colorful of the mural scenes.  If I have anything different in any of my playthroughs I'll come back here and let you know.

 

I think I did see that painting of a downed dragon with a sword in its back but oddly, I loaded the first playthrough and the painting isn't there. Instead, it's this.

 

DAITheFinalPainting_zpsd38849fd.png



#34
legbamel

legbamel
  • Members
  • 2 539 messages
All this does make me wonder what would have happened if Croypheus had reached the Well of Sorrows first. Would Mythal/Flemeth have had some sway over him? Was anyone else drinking it actually a really bad idea or was Solas afraid Morrigan or the Inquisitor would find out who he was?

#35
angelofsol

angelofsol
  • Members
  • 127 messages

I think I did see that painting of a downed dragon with a sword in its back but oddly, I loaded the first playthrough and the painting isn't there. Instead, it's this.

 

DAITheFinalPainting_zpsd38849fd.png

That's the ending mural in all three of my playthroughs and the one I'm talking about.



#36
fcedric

fcedric
  • Members
  • 1 056 messages


That's the ending mural in all three of my playthroughs and the one I'm talking about.

 

 

This is not a dragon, it's a wolf, look on this screenshot (i lightened the wall picture), can you see the it now ? 

DAIPainting.jpg

 

http://www.hostingpi...DAIPainting.png



#37
fcedric

fcedric
  • Members
  • 1 056 messages

OK, many peoples (me included) don't understand what happened at the end with Solas and Flemeth...

So Bioware we need more explanation, we want a DLC, we want an Extended cut...
Stop teasing us... Give us an explanation...

We don't want another little boy like in ME3 which didn't explain nothing about the why of the reapers... You did the same...
Shame on u Bioware, Stop teasing Us...
I want my ending, or i want an DLC quickly ...!!! 


  • Riladel aime ceci

#38
Kappa Neko

Kappa Neko
  • Members
  • 2 328 messages

OK, many peoples (me included) don't understand what happened at the end with Solas and Flemeth...

So Bioware we need more explanation, we want a DLC, we want an Extended cut...
Stop teasing us... Give us an explanation...

We don't want another little boy like in ME3 which didn't explain nothing about the why of the reapers... You did the same...
Shame on u Bioware, Stop teasing Us...
I want my ending, or i want an DLC quickly ...!!! 

Come on, people. Why do you need everything spelled out??? *sigh* That's what drove me nuts about the ME3 ending sh*tstorm too. Think for yourself! The ME3 ending makes perfect sense if you think about it and actually listen to what everybody tells you throughout all three games... but let's not open that can of worms again.

 

The post credits scene is ambiguous on purpose too. I only finished the game a few days ago and haven't thought about it much yet. So I'm not at all sure yet what it means. Nor do I know if we're supposed to understand just yet since this is not the end of the series (unlike ME3).

 

My current idea is that Fen'harel is a truly TRAGIC character. Completely misunderstood by the Dalish and painted as a traitor while he actually wanted to SAVE them. And his final scene with Flemeth makes me wonder if he and Mythal were lovers once, at the very least they were very close friends. Another wicked irony of how wrong the Dalish got their own mythology/history. Throughout the game Solas is disgusted with slavery. And during his romance you learn that the Dalish got one more thing wrong: the vallaslin. I believe Fen'harel was horrified at the ancient elven slavery and wanted to get rid of it. Like Dorian, he wanted his society to change. He was a rebel who wanted a better society. So he locked the old "gods" away, thinking this would benefit his people. Then he woke only to realize that his actions had the opposite effect. He's consumed with guilt over his actions and also harbors a lot of anger at the present elven society that paints him as a traitor. He feels betrayed by THEM. He has a highly ambivalent relationship with modern elves in the game. That's why he's so hostile towards the Dalish but at the same time looks like a race supremacist. The Dalish are not his people, they are pathetic in his eyes. They don't know their own history, they got everything wrong, they run around with slave markings and feel proud of them. They are complete fools in his eyes. At the same time he knows it's his own fault the Dalish are this way. And it eats at him. He's torn between anger and guilt.

 

So he decides to undo the damage somehow by bringing back the old gods. He's desperate. So he turns to Corypheus. I still can't see the logic behind THAT tbh. That's just really dumb. But I guess any kind of help was welcome to a weakened Fen'harel. He wanted to correct his mistake NOW, so he had no other option. But again his plan was an ill-conceived one. But this time he realized his mistake in time and decided to stop Corypheus. He still wants to restore the world to what it was once, though. And there are many hints in the game that suggest that once there was no barrier between the mortal world and the spirit world. And it looks like Morrigan knows this and is plotting something along the same lines. She too wants to bring back the old gods but without the taint. Hence the tease from the inquisitor they should get a room. They are much alike! And why wouldn't they when she was raised my Fen'harel's dear friend Mythal... I hope Morrigan will be the true heroine of Thedas in the end, not a villain. I think she truly wants a world of magic but without any evil. So she's trying to create a better version of an old god with her son.

Then there's Sandal's prophecy that talks about all the magic returning. Which is exactly this. The old gods will return in some way, but we know that the gods were not exactly benevolent beings, which is why Fen'harel locked them away.

 

One might speculate that Fen'harel was the one who created the fade in the first place. Another realm where he could lock the old gods away. That's why he understands the fade so well. He created it and therefore knows how it works and what it is. I suspect that the creation of the fade drained the world of much of its magic and caused the ancient elves to lose their immortality and also all their power. The ancient elven gods (whatever they really are, perhaps only very powerful elves who are revered as gods now) reside in the Black City, which is Arlathan. The Tevinter Imperium invaded Arlathan and obtained the powerful magic of the ancient elves by which they were able to enslave the weakened elves. So Fen'harel "freed" the ancient elves from slavery only to leave them defenseless against new enslavement. (The elven history is so wickedly ironic, it's brilliant!)

Immortality is linked to great magical power to me. Merging the mortal world and the spirit world would then not only bring back the old gods but also immortality for everyone. Considering that the fade in many ways represents corruption because it harbors very angry gods and angry spirits, the plan to unleash all this sounds like a very dangerous idea...

I guess this is why Fen'harel realized that the world is not ready for it yet. His wish to dissolve the veil was a hasty one.

 

Fen'harel's main objective is still to restore the ancient elves to their former glory though. Without the slavery, of course. And I think he is willing to make great sacrifices to achieve his goal. He's not unsympathetic to other races but the elves are still his priority. His anger is an issue that might turn him into a villain in the end. Especially now that he and Mythal have merged. Mythal wants revenge for her betrayal and murder. I believe they both had the same goal once. Maybe they worked together to help their people? Maybe her murder gave Fen'harel all the more reason to want the old gods punished/locked away. But now Mythal is more concerned about revenge. Fen'harel wants more than revenge, he wants a better world. Mythal does too but her judgment is more clouded than his by anger. So those two are a bit at odds now perhaps. They aren't antagonists though.

My guess is that Flemeth gives herself to the Dread Wolf to be absorbed so he can help their people. It pains him greatly obviously that she is the one who has to make this sacrifice even though he is the one who should take the punishment for his foolishness. That's what he feels sorry about imo. They silently agree on their union. As Flemeth says, nothing can be forced upon the unwilling. So she is very willing to get absorbed into Solas' body. Mythal may simply feel sorry this has turned out so bad for their people. And that he's in so much pain over it and has to "kill" her now. Or it's more cryptic. She obviously sent something through the eluvian. Probably a part of Mythal. So she might be apologizing for her future betrayal... I can't tell yet.

 

The mural of the wolf and the stabbed dragon might suggest that Fen'harel betrayed Mythal. But I don't read the final scene that way at all. It seems very tender to me. It might just symbolize his guilt over having to kill Flemeth in order to fulfill his plan... he might feel like he betrayed her even though she did it voluntarily.

Now that he has "killed" her, the mythology is suddenly true after all in a away... it comes full circle in that scene. And yet, it's still not for the reasons the Dalish believe.


  • Meepichi, cheydancer et Riladel aiment ceci

#39
fcedric

fcedric
  • Members
  • 1 056 messages

It is too much ambiguous, it is exactly why we need an extended cut, or a dlc (i can pay for it) to explain us what happened, who is Fen'harel, who is Mythal, what happened to the Elven gods, what happened to the Elvens and why they aren't immortal like before...

Your answer prove us, than nobody of us understood exactly what happened at the end...
Usually at the end of a movie, there is something named : "denouement" and now there is no denouement, just an event related to the background of the elven story (DAO Codex, etc)...

 

Bioware is teasing us for their next Dragon Age, but i will not wait 3 years to understand what happened at the end of DA3, and what happened in fact to the Elvens (the real ones, the old and original ones, not the flattened ears), did that have lost their immortality because of the elven gods, or Fen'harel, did Fen'harel have betray the old gods (if yes i'm sure he have a good reason)...

 

It is too easy to create a 10 seconds movie at the end of Dragon Age Inquisition, and let us thinking about what is that ??? Wow What ? 

 

Ok Mythal is in Flemeth, Fen'harel is in Solas all of us have understood, but what happened exactly between them and why ..? 

This is what we want to know...

 

SO I WANT A DLC or AN EXTENDED CUT...

SO ARE YOU WITH ME DRAGON AGE FANS ? ARE YOU WITH ME INQUISITION ? ARE WE INQUISITION ? 

ALL WITH THE INQUISITION AGAINST BIOWARE FOR OUR EXTENDED CUT (or DLC, i can pay something for it) 



#40
Helgagrim

Helgagrim
  • Members
  • 167 messages

I really felt Flemeths last words to Morrigan in the fade (my version in the game) felt like a goodbye, from Flemeth to Morrigan. But I don't know, at the start of the epilogue she sends a soul through the Eluvian, it's possible she sent a part of herself away, for whatever reason.

 

And the wolf mural, looks like a dreaded wolf dragon. It's clearly horns, not ears, the underpart is scales, while the rest is wolf kinda. :P



#41
Riladel

Riladel
  • Members
  • 71 messages

This topic was discussed over and over again in  Solas' thread (and some other smaller threads)



#42
fcedric

fcedric
  • Members
  • 1 056 messages

@ Riladel : check the date, if those topics you told about are older, put a link please...



#43
Arvaarad

Arvaarad
  • Members
  • 1 259 messages
For the love of... post-credits scenes are supposed to be ambiguous, that's the whole point. Post-credits scenes are more about the next movie/game/etc. than they are about the current one, it's why they appear after the credits.
  • legbamel et Kappa Neko aiment ceci

#44
Kappa Neko

Kappa Neko
  • Members
  • 2 328 messages

This topic was discussed over and over again in  Solas' thread (and some other smaller threads)

Not everyone wants to read a thousand pages in the Solas thread... I finished the game only a few days ago. I have to work for a living, so it takes me weeks to finish something so huge as DAI. So excuse us late comers for discussing it all over again. Jeez.


  • Talian Kross, fcedric et cheydancer aiment ceci

#45
SamanthaJ

SamanthaJ
  • Members
  • 1 714 messages

For any latecomers who actually do want to know what happened in the end read the first post here. Spoilers for potential future content as well.

 

http://forum.bioware...ve-been-warned/

 

Or the direct source here.

 

http://www.reddit.co...cene_explained/



#46
abisha

abisha
  • Members
  • 256 messages

also wanna point out solas was very angry about the well of sorrow, if you absorb it.

 

and in the very beginning of the game, he claim Dalish are wrong, and not the true elves.

so this solas guy playing behind screens, might make a perfect villain for the next DA.

 

if only they not make more gaps in the stories, Flemeth already taken like a hugh plot hole after plot hole. from DAI to DAIII.

they need to make consistences and move on, ether ditch or center around flemeth.

PS, what the crap go into the mirror after well of sorrow, look like a water elemental or something.



#47
fcedric

fcedric
  • Members
  • 1 056 messages

No for me he wasn't angry, he just asked me what i will do with it...  But may be because Solas and me are great friends, we are most of the time in accord...
My answer as an Human mage : I will restore what had been broken,...

Solas Approbation ++

 

About Flemeth and Morrigan, what i have understand is just she will stop to pursue her, and will act as a mother... If Morrigan want to see her; she would be pleased, if not ... But in fact, Flemeth wanted morrigan body for Mythal, and only if she agree with the transfert... This is what Morrigan haven't understand (and us also)...

 

But i'm bored to wait 3 years to know about an end...

Did you realize ? The ending, have changed all our comprehension about Elven History since DAO ... the story lines have been broken... 

The least thing is to not make us wait 3 years to understand a 20sec video...

I WANT MY DLC OR MY EXTENDED ENDING... 



#48
Kappa Neko

Kappa Neko
  • Members
  • 2 328 messages

For any latecomers who actually do want to know what happened in the end read the first post here. Spoilers for potential future content as well.

 

http://forum.bioware...ve-been-warned/

 

Or the direct source here.

 

http://www.reddit.co...cene_explained/

Thank you, this thread went unnoticed by me.

 

Doesn't really explain all that much though, the source itself. Just confirms what I suspected, but that's nice to know. But what exactly Solas is going to do now is still the bis mystery. Whether or not he'll turn into a villain, that's still all up for debate. I still stand by my interpretation of his character. He may become a villain but his intentions are good if radical. We've seen over and over again how quickly good intentions become corrupted and lead to disaster. So far I see Fen'harel's actions as accidental disaster. He feels very guilty about it. So there's hope for him imo. I'd hate it if I had to kill him.



#49
abisha

abisha
  • Members
  • 256 messages

No for me he wasn't angry, he just asked me what i will do with it...  But may be because Solas and me are great friends, we are most of the time in accord...
My answer as an Human mage : I will restore what had been broken,...

Solas Approbation ++

 

About Flemeth and Morrigan, what i have understand is just she will stop to pursue her, and will act as a mother... If Morrigan want to see her; she would be pleased, if not ... But in fact, Flemeth wanted morrigan body for Mythal, and only if she agree with the transfert... This is what Morrigan haven't understand (and us also)...

 

But i'm bored to wait 3 years to know about an end...

Did you realize ? The ending, have changed all our comprehension about Elven History since DAO ... the story lines have been broken... 

The least thing is to not make us wait 3 years to understand a 20sec video...

I WANT MY DLC OR MY EXTENDED ENDING... 

 

weird in my game he was like madman about the well

i play mage dalish



#50
Nisiar

Nisiar
  • Members
  • 36 messages

There are hints in the game that highly suggests that Mythal either took Solas' body or at least will share it. 

 

During the temple of Mythal storyline, Abelas mentions that a boon of Mythal -always- comes with a price.  It looks like Solas/Fen'Harel took this power from Mythal a long time ago in a bargain with Mythal that suggests that after he is successful in doing whatever he wanted to accomplish with the orb, he would be OK with paying this price, maybe because he expected to regain his full power back.  But the orb got destroyed and now he must still pay the price even though he couldn't save his people.  That is what he is doing at the end, pleading with her that his work is not done.  And Flemeth is apologizing because it doesn't matter - he will still pay the price that she demands now.  

 

Honestly, if Solas wasn't such a fan favorite, I would think that his story was done at this point.  This is so much more heartbreaking if your PC romanced him because he is pleading for the continuation of his life on this plane.  

 

But if you listen to her speech about her betrayal (and omg, kudos to the voice actor, that speech about Mythal taking vengeance gave me shivers, so excellent), you know she will stop at NOTHING to get her revenge on those who killed her.  It is an incredibly powerful line and you just know that Mythal is faaaar from done. 

 

I also think Falon'Din was responsible for Mythal's death but that is another post altogether.