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What happened at the end ? Spoilers


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#51
Nisiar

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The ancient elves killed themselves because of war.  According to Solas, Falon'Din grew very hungry for more deaths and began to incite wars.  Even though he is very "elfy" according to Seras, Solas/Fen'Harel also demonstrated a lot of compassion for the suffering and underdogs throughout the game.  He likes it when the refugees are helped in the Hinterlands and he is kind to Sera even though she mocks him for his elfy ways.  And he despises slavery or any forced binding.  

 

I think the locking away of all the gods resulted from Falon'Din's betrayal of Mythal and murder and Fen'Harel's attempt to keep the ancient elves from being wiped out because he did care for the elves, who were kind of slaves to the gods from the sound of it. Unfortunately, it didn't work and they all killed themselves anyway and the current elves are suffering because their gods are gone. 

 

Why I think it is Falon'Din is because he gets a prominent place in Mythal's temple and like Fen'Harel he may have been close to Mythal as well before she decided to get in his way.  Perhaps Solas/Fen'Harel felt that it was time to unlock the gods' prisons now because humans are the most powerful race in the realm and there are not gods for the elves now unless they convert to the Maker's religion.  Well it didn't work anyway.  Glory to the Maker.



#52
Gervaise

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The reason the ending is ambiguous is because it is setting you up for the next game (or novel).    I'm inclined to think that between now and DA4 we will get a novel explaining what happened in the past and then the next game will deal with the future.

 

I think people are jumping to a lot of premature conclusions about what is going on.   Two things to consider regarding the relationship between Mythal and Fen'Harel is that she was the god of justice (which can turn to vengeance) and he seems to have been something of a rebel (probably a bit of a trickster too).  My take on it is that  I would imagine that he managed to persuade Mythal that what the elven gods were doing was unjust, she tried to do something about it and was killed.   She might blame Fen for that but equally whoever was responsible for her demise.   I doubt Fen is the one she seeks vengeance against, since she had plenty of opportunity prior to the end.    However, he admits that it would be justice for him to be punished (for giving Cory the orb?) but he is also still needed by "his people".    So I figure that "justice" demands that he willingly allows Mythal to join with him.    They are both sorry because the resulting merger is likely to change them both and neither will be the same again.  

 

What is more difficult to ascertain is what he intends to achieve by this merger, which in turn begs the question, what did he intend to achieve by giving Corypheus the orb in the first place?   Also why did he "awaken" when he did?   When in fact did he awaken?   Also, who in fact are "his people".

 

Everyone seems to assume he regards the elves as such.    However, in game the "people" he is most concerned about and who he seems to identify with the closest are the Fade spirits.     He grants them the same status and the same rights as people in the material world.    His greatest anger seems to be reserved for those who misuse and abuse them.     You could even argue that in his eyes spirits are as misunderstood as he is.     Whilst some do exist in the Fade as demons, it would seem that many of those that materialise in this world as demons are in fact benign spirits forced here against their will.      I was a bit puzzled first run through about why he was so anti-Grey Warden and you giving them a second chance.    Then I thought about it again in the light of certain conversations he has about spirits, particularly with Cole.    The wardens were undertaking a massive blood sacrifice in order to summon a demon army but from what he says about spirits, the majority of these "demons" would not have been such in the Fade but in being forcibly summoned to this world they would have been twisted into the demons the Grey Wardens desired.   That is what he finds unforgiveable.  

 

So far from breaking down the veil between worlds, I would have thought that he would be trying to do the opposite.    All through the game we are being asked to activate old artifacts that strengthen the veil.   Why do this if you want the opposite?    (I doubt he was lying about their purpose).     If strengthening the veil makes it harder to summon spirits, then only those who want to cross over would be able to.    This could have great effect on the nature of magic in the world, in particular in Tevinter.   Solas has a beef with Dorian over slavery in Tevinter and not just mortals.    Dorian admits to the Inquisitor that what officially goes on in Tevinter and what occurs behind closed doors are two things entirely but that no one has probably got to the position of Magister without resorting to dodgy blood magic and that sort of magic involves the summoning of spirits/demons.   If Tevinter Magisters could no longer do this sort of thing, the knock on would be tremendous, not the least because the magic that has given them the edge in defending themselves from other nations would no longer be available to them.     That would totally tip the balance of power in the north.     However, Solas with his total focus on helping "his people" wouldn't realise (or possibly care) about the effect of his actions until it was too late, for example when another hated faction the Qun starts to invade.    Seems a pretty good plot set up to me.      


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#53
Kappa Neko

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So far from breaking down the veil between worlds, I would have thought that he would be trying to do the opposite.    All through the game we are being asked to activate old artifacts that strengthen the veil.   Why do this if you want the opposite?    (I doubt he was lying about their purpose).     If strengthening the veil makes it harder to summon spirits, then only those who want to cross over would be able to.    This could have great effect on the nature of magic in the world, in particular in Tevinter.   Solas has a beef with Dorian over slavery in Tevinter and not just mortals.    Dorian admits to the Inquisitor that what officially goes on in Tevinter and what occurs behind closed doors are two things entirely but that no one has probably got to the position of Magister without resorting to dodgy blood magic and that sort of magic involves the summoning of spirits/demons.   If Tevinter Magisters could no longer do this sort of thing, the knock on would be tremendous, not the least because the magic that has given them the edge in defending themselves from other nations would no longer be available to them.     That would totally tip the balance of power in the north.     However, Solas with his total focus on helping "his people" wouldn't realise (or possibly care) about the effect of his actions until it was too late, for example when another hated faction the Qun starts to invade.    Seems a pretty good plot set up to me.      

I assumed he wanted the veil strengthened again so that no more rifts would form. He did want to close the breach and correct his mistake. I still think his goal is to lift the veil eventually. I mean, that's what he said in his first conversation, is it not? How wonderful it would be - but also dangerous. If there was no barrier anymore, then spirits would not get forced into the mortal world and be corrupted. They would just be there like the wind and free to interact if they so desire. I believe he wants spirits and flesh and blood people to coexist. But at present it's a bit of a foolish dream. The world is not ready for it yet. I realized that. You need to teach people first what spirits are exactly and how to interact with them safely. Just as you don't let people drive a car without a license. You have to teach them first how to drive properly and safely. The attitude towards spirits needs to change before the veil can be lifted.

 

Your idea about Tevinter is very interesting though. I like it. What I wonder is if in the reverse case this might apply as well. Would mages be able to summon spirits as before if there was no veil? I imagine the fade releasing all the magic into the world which would make the entire world magical but more diluted than in the fade because it's now spread out. Maybe? Would this then weaken a mage's power or strengthen it? I have no idea.

But it would certainly be amusing if spirits could no longer be summoned and abused for somebody's power play. That would certainly lead to an interesting situation with Tevinter ;)



#54
PorcelynDoll

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I think Flemeth pushed part of herself through the eluvian. She pushes something through regardless if the OGB exisits or not. I really don't think they would kill off Flemeth in an after credits scene.



#55
fcedric

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What whill Flemeth do in the source ? The source is the spirit of all the Elvhen which have drink to this source and die in it (like if they took something, and at the end of their life, they come to die in the source to return what they have learn, knowledge + knowledge + knowledge = big knowledge)...

After i had drink it, i had many many voices in my head, not only one... And i can understand the ancient elven dialect... (i can read the old codex i found with unveil fire)  

 

About the Orb,  Remember : 

when we was searching about Shyhold fortress, there is a dialog with Solas about the Elven artifact (the orb) hold by Coryphallus...

And Solas said : " It is an ancient artifact given to our pantheon* gods, each of our gods had one orb which permit to them to cross/come closer to the sky/fade"

 

My speculations : 

- Fen'harel took nothing from Mythal ...  Flemeth isn't so old she don't need a body now now ... She is a pretty beautiful woman (she look good, better than in DAO, may be she done a beauty cure (une cure de jouvence lol) ... 

 

- Mythal's problem/revenge is between her and some stupid mortals (like the one who made the circle of mage a jail instead of making a university of magic for example, or those damned tevintides like Coryphallus, and this damned chantry sister amity (don't remember her name exactly ) which pushed to the exalted marche (marche exaltée - don't know the exact term in english ) - We can found codex in Emerald tombs, and in Exalted plains

 

- Mythal and Fen'harel are gods together or powerful Elvhens who crossed the veil to become other thing : spirit, other than spirit, sort of gods, sort of immortal creature ? All we can do is speculate  

Remember what said Solas said about the ancient Elvhen civilization : "Elvhen nature is magic" - Merril in DA2 said something similar ( in the old time, Arlathan time, each elvhen had a magic gift : Elvhen are magic creature more than human are)

May be those Elven gods, were more like the Dwarf parangon, some Elven peoples which have marked their era by doing something important and helpful to their peoples...

 

- Mythal and Fen'harel was friends, brother and sister (remember Falon'din and his brother), lover, anyway they were close (proof the myth temple, with Fen'harel statue, not far, not turned against the wall, but equal to Mythal) - On the left side Fen'harel, on the right side Mythal (as equal and inseparable)

 

I'm sure, what Fen'harel did, he did it for the protection of the mortals ...

 

But the thing which is strange is the statues in the Elvhen temples those statues are demon statues (remember Merril and the Eluvian)... Same statues... Same in the Emerald temple

 

*Definition : Panthéon = http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthéon

 

To Finish, I didn't want to be teased for a game or a novel (i'm not interested by novel or animation, only by Bioware RPG) which will be released in 2 or 3 years if not 4...

I just want a coherent ending, or a DLC which will be quickly released (not in one year)...

I don't care for an anime which don't have anything to do with Dragon Age ...

I have watch Dawn of the seeker... 1 hour for nothing, this could have been an 15 mn manga...

Have you seen Cassandra ??? Ok she is looking better than in the game (long hair, cute nose) she is presented as a nag (un bourrin) during one hour, Cassandra's dialogs are : Hugh Hargh boum, Huuuh boum, Yahhhh boum, Yaahh shlafff (sword in the dragon neck, under the scale)...



#56
DaemionMoadrin

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A few things to remember:

 

1. Flemeth and Mythal are one being and have been since Mythal "possessed" her. They can no longer be seperated, this is being said both in DA:O as well as DA:I.

 

2. Flemeth has more than one body. We know she had at least three versions of herself running around Thedas: One in the Korcari Wilds, one which saved Hawke from the Darkspawn and the one in the amulet which was carried to Kirkwall.

 

3. Possession/soul transfer requires both participants to be willing. Kieran's actions seem to prove that.

 

4. There are at 3 souls in play here: Flemeth/Mythal, Urthemiel and Solas. Either the Dread Wolf is just an elf, has taken the shape of one or has taken a host similiarly to Mythal, so their souls became one... so in the end, he's just one soul.

 

Let's get the obvious logic problem out of the way first: If possession means the souls combine, then Kieran shouldn't have been able to give up Urthemiel's soul. But the Dark Ritual worked precisely because the just conceived child didn't have a soul yet, so there was nothing there to combine with. Kieran grew up with his own soul, being a vessel for Urthemiel but never interacting with that soul beyond hearing voices.

 

To understand what happened in the final scene one needs to have a look at the Well of Sorrows.

https://www.youtube....9VxyQr30Q#t=997

 

Note the dark fog effect and the figure emerging from the water. That's Mythal. She leaps into the Eluvian.

 

Shortly after Kieran is being called into the Eluvian at Skyhold, he enters the Fade and there meets Flemeth/Mythal. He gives Urthemiel's soul to Flemeth, who takes it into herself. Unless she just changed the rules of how possession works, Urthemiel joined Flemeth and Mythal, three became one.

 

In my playthrough, I had Morrigan drink from the Well, she is now bound to Mythal. And here we see how tricky those immortals can be.

We were told Flemeth had many daughters through the ages and that she took over their bodies to stay young. What if that is only half the truth? What if that is the secret behind Flemeth having multiple bodies? Remember the amulet? The Flemeth who emerged from it said she was only a piece, a small piece. "I am but a fragment cast adrift from the whole."

How do you synchronize all the memories from your bodies? You put them into the Well of Sorrows and extract them from it later.

We saw that Mythal was -in- the Well of Sorrows. My theory is that Flemeth brought her daughters through the Eluvian to the Well of Sorrows. The sentinels would all be asleep and wouldn't notice. The daughters drink from the well, gain all the knowledge stored inside and bind themselves to Flemeth in the process. They then have access to the memories and personality of Flemeth/Mythal and can impersonate her but they do not possess her soul. Even just that would give them power (knowledge), as shown by Morrigan, who was able to turn into a dragon just like her mother after drinking from the Well. They also can't replace her mother since they are bound to her.

 

The real Flemeth might take over the body of a daughter if she needed a younger body, but that daughter would accept it willingly and their souls would merge. It is why she raises them to be just like her, to make the transition easier. Otherwise her personality would shift each time their souls merged. Or perhaps she likes them to have similiar personalities so they use the memories properly.

 

I think that the first Flemeth, the one who got possessed by Mythal, raised daughters, took them to the Well and went into it herself, becoming one with it. Her daughters then drank from the Well, turned into copies of her and went out in the world.

The real one, with the soul of Mythal, has been in the well ever since. All we met in the games so far have been copies. That also gives her the ability to choose which memories are shared. At the end of their life the daughters come back, share their memories and new daughters take over.

 

 

What does all that mean for the final scene? Everything and nothing. From the fog effect we can conclude that all souls have been transferred to Solas, he is now the vessel for Flemeth, Mythal, Urthemiel and himself. All four souls joined into one. At this point it doesn't matter if the Dread Wolf took over Mythal or the other way around, the end result only differs in the body they use now. That is why he says, "The people need me." I interpret it as "Please let us use my body."

There is no force involved, no struggle. Flemeth was evidently more powerful than Solas, he couldn't have stolen her soul or taken her over anyway.

 

As I said earlier, immortals are tricky. Flemeth probably still has other bodies running around in Thedas but now the Well of Sorrows is no more. To get the power and memories of her copies, Solas/Flemeth would have to possess them. And just like that the real Flemeth would be back.

 

 

P.S. Yeah, I know this theory has one or two holes. I give it maybe a probability of 20% to be true... but isn't it a clever little theory? It would fit Flemeth's M.O. perfectly. ^^


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#57
Lord Raijin

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All I know is that our Inquisitor and his/her companions will have to jump into the mystery truck and find out what happen to Solas, and why did he vanished on the next expansion DLC.

 

Spoiler


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#58
fcedric

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A few things to remember:

 

1. Flemeth and Mythal are one being and have been since Mythal "possessed" her. They can no longer be seperated, this is being said both in DA:O as well as DA:I.

 

2. Flemeth has more than one body. We know she had at least three versions of herself running around Thedas: One in the Korcari Wilds, one which saved Hawke from the Darkspawn and the one in the amulet which was carried to Kirkwall.

 

3. Possession/soul transfer requires both participants to be willing. Kieran's actions seem to prove that.

 

4. There are at 3 souls in play here: Flemeth/Mythal, Urthemiel and Solas. Either the Dread Wolf is just an elf, has taken the shape of one or has taken a host similiarly to Mythal, so their souls became one... so in the end, he's just one soul.

 

 

The Flemeth which saved Alistair, my dog friend and me in Korcari wild during the first blight, and the Flemeth which saved me in Korcari Blight when i tried to escape the darkspawn with my entire family (mother, brother, dog, and sister, and friends (aveline, and her husband) was the same one...

In DAO in one of my game i had "killed" (neutralized) Flemeth with my weapons, and in another game, i neutralized her by talking and charming her... 

I haven't seen any difference, it is the same Flemeth, she just have magical trick to reconstitute her body (Magic exist in Thedas, Bioware just worked a bit more the character with more beautiful visual appearance in DA2...

 

Good point about Urthemiel, i hadn't considered his soul... 

So what Urthemiel and Flemeth are together ? + Fen'harel ? in one body ? 

the one which will have the 3 souls will become crazy !!!

Non sense...



#59
Berkilak

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Ultimately, in the context of this critique, what the teaser "means" doesn't matter (although you can figure it out with a replay or a little research). The story of Inquisition was told. The Dread Wolf part is simply hinting at what is to come, but it doesn't concern the storyline of this game at all. It doesn't need elaboration within Inquisition.



#60
fcedric

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I hate teasers !!!! Grrrrrr

I WANT MY DLC !!! OR AN EXTENDED ENDING !!! 

NOW  :crying:  :? !!!


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#61
Robert Trevelyan

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One thing which I don't see so many people mentioning on here is that (depending on your previous in-game choices) it is possible that at what appears to be the moment of her death Flemeth (Mythal) also houses the Soul of another Old God, taken from Keiran if he was conceived as the method of concluding Dragon Age Origins, and saving the Warden.

 

Two Gods may plausibly have perished in one stroke.



#62
DaemionMoadrin

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One thing which I don't see so many people mentioning on here is that (depending on your previous in-game choices) it is possible that at what appears to be the moment of her death Flemeth (Mythal) also houses the Soul of another Old God, taken from Keiran if he was conceived as the method of concluding Dragon Age Origins, and saving the Warden.

 

Two Gods may plausibly have perished in one stroke.

 

No one died. :)


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#63
fcedric

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I hope, because i love Flemeth, if i could i will romance her... and if i was a woman i will romance Solas:)



#64
leaguer of one

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I hate teasers !!!! Grrrrrr

I WANT MY DLC !!! OR AN EXTENDED ENDING !!! 

NOW  :crying:  :? !!!

And you wonder why bw made an ending like this.


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#65
leaguer of one

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I hope, because i love Flemeth, if i could i will romance her... and if i was a woman i will romance Solas:)

You already did romanced Flemeth, her name is Morrigan.



#66
fcedric

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The ancient elves killed themselves because of war.  According to Solas, Falon'Din grew very hungry for more deaths and began to incite wars.  Even though he is very "elfy" according to Seras, Solas/Fen'Harel also demonstrated a lot of compassion for the suffering and underdogs throughout the game.  He likes it when the refugees are helped in the Hinterlands and he is kind to Sera even though she mocks him for his elfy ways.  And he despises slavery or any forced binding.  

What what what ???? Source please ? where have you heard this ? Codex n° please ? give us proofs, codex, where pleaaaaaaaasee!!



#67
fcedric

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Why I think it is Falon'Din is because he gets a prominent place in Mythal's temple and like Fen'Harel he may have been close to Mythal as well before she decided to get in his way.  Perhaps Solas/Fen'Harel felt that it was time to unlock the gods' prisons now because humans are the most powerful race in the realm and there are not gods for the elves now unless they convert to the Maker's religion.  Well it didn't work anyway.  Glory to the Maker.

Wait wait, where have you seen something about Dalon'din in Mythal temple ?????

I haven't see nothing... in my gameplay, i cooperated with the Elvhen gardians, i also have found the 3-4 (3 or 4 i'm not sure) rune of veiled fire on the walls... But nothing about Falon'din in this temple...

Only Fen'harel statues and Mythal ...



#68
Navasha

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There are mosaics in Temple of Mythal that talk about the elven gods.   Falon'din and Andurils mosaics bring extra dialog from Solas if he is with you.

 

About Anduril he mentions that he/she was a god of sacrifice to some.

 

Solas has many lines about Falon'din and his lust for adulation and starting whole wars to acquire more worshippers.

 

Reading those mosaics, leads me to believe that the elven gods were either dragons or some kind of winged spirits.   They weren't exactly gods, but weren't elves either.  Many of the mosaics refer to "winged" and "breath"



#69
Elfyoth

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It was two ancient gods having their version of sex. Solas invented knife sex and then every old elven god vanished mysteriously.







On a more serious note, I think solas tricked flemeth with his whole "Im so sorry" thing then stole part of her soul and/or the old gods soul if you made that option. All in order to gain power so he can help his people.

Hmm I want to try this type of sex one day... I wonder if there is a female form of Solas? Maybe he will posses Sera one day... 



#70
fcedric

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But where are those mosaics ? i haven't seen them ??

I was sure i explored entirely the temple when i followed the guide (i have choosen to ally with the ancient Elves)... 

 

Can we see those mosaic (codex) without killing the elves ? I mean i have seen one locked door in the temple which need a ritual to open...

Can we open this door without killing the Elves ? 

 

Or should i follow Samson by the quick way to see those mosaics ?



#71
Navasha

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The mosaics are on the walls around the ritual areas, where you have to walk on the floor tiles.   That is where you find the Falon'Din and a few others.   I believe his is in a small room on either side of one of the main doors to that area..



#72
fcedric

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Thankyou, i think i have missed this room, or this mosaic... I remember i have done 3 rituals, or may be 4... But haven't see nothing about the gods war... i will search more carefully, it is my next mission...



#73
Aren

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It was two ancient gods having their version of sex. Solas invented knife sex and then every old elven god vanished mysteriously.







On a more serious note, I think solas tricked flemeth with his whole "Im so sorry" thing then stole part of her soul and/or the old gods soul if you made that option. All in order to gain power so he can help his people.

The soul of  that Dragon  Urthemiel is  Blue is the  one who Flemeth sent to the Eluvian,  developers cannot use that element because isn't mandatory   unlike flemeth



#74
Aren

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Two words and an acronym: Wolf Hunt DLC  :P

I belive that the Inquisitor will be  hunted by the dread wolf,  the Dread wolf is an Hunter is plan was to  hunt Mythal i belive.



#75
fcedric

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i didn't remember any codex about Falon'din in the temple of Mythal ...

On Wikia, the listed the codex, all those i have found...

http://dragonage.wik...emple_of_Mythal

 

+ one ancient elven text discovered with veil fire outside the temple (in a room where Inquisition Mage fight against Templars)