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Old Gods and the Maker


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#1
Colonelkillabee

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Just some general thoughts first. Dumat, god of silence is like the angel Dumah, angel of silence. Dumah was a chieftain of demons, and Dumat has a connection to demons by the Tevinter who credit him with the granting of blood magic originally, just like demons can do.

 

I'll use a quote from another thread for the next point:

 

Spoiler

 

Worth noting that we know Dumat is alive in some shape or form still because Corypheus called to him in DA 2 and was granted power, but when he called for it in Inquisition, in the game where Corypheus tried to make a dragon take on his essence like an abomination, Dumat no longer granted him his prayers. The God of silence chose to stay silent.

 

And so here's the idea that the old gods were rivals with the elven pantheon. Dumat and his old gods take the form of dragons, and the tevinter claim he's the one that granted them blood magic, while others say it was the forbidden ones, which are powerful spirits considered demons, suggesting another tie with Dumat and demonic spirits. Either way, there's some animosity here.

 

As suggested also in the other thread, the elven gods were at odds with what we call the old gods.

 

Perhaps they still think it the elven gods in general that sealed them away and not simply Solas who sealed both away, but is said in legend to hold kinship to both.

 

The forgotten ones could have been the old gods, as the game's Astrarium puzzles regularly hammer that idea into your head, that the old gods are actually borrowed gods from the elves. This explains why Solas was so infuriated that the Wardens would just go seek to kill them in their idea that this will stop the blights. With them being "pillars" this may even have grave effects to the world of Thedas.

 

Next point is the blight itself. Another theory bounced around in this thread:

 

http://forum.bioware...ack-city/page-2

 

Is that the Golden City was a place to contain the Blight. The blight seems to be something alive with a will of its own or of someone else's, as it gives everyone tainted with it a linked hive mind. The blight's power has connection to the blood of those it infects, suggesting that it may have been reminiscent of an actual god or spirit, as Dumat is believed to be linked to Blood magic, as are these forbidden ones and demons.

 

I do believe that Dumat and the old gods granted blood magic, because they are the ones that call to those that are tainted with the blood. And we know that it isn't just the taint that calls, because in the Western Approach next to a hole that leads to the Deep Roads, there's a text from a grey warden that says they were searching for the old gods, and that when they got close enough, it was so loud that the earth within shook and rattled, causing collapses that made it not safe to reach it. So it's not just in their head, but the will of the old gods calling out to them.

 

I think Dumat and the old gods want to be tainted for the power of the blight, as it's a thing alive. I think the blight itself is a weak manifestation of a dead god and its will trying desperately to take form and remain. Something of the old gods, maybe something else entirely. Maybe even the maker or something mistaken for a maker, as this was supposed to be his palace to humans. Perhaps not his palace, but his containment field held there by elven gods, which would include the old gods at one time. And they call for it from the tainted because they sought vengeance on the other elven gods and wished to escape with the blight.

 

So they tricked their tevinter worshipers into breaching it, and escaping with the taint.

 

This part's not very strong, but when Corypheus, the strongest form of corruption we know, that cannot die and will be reformed like archdemons from other blighted beings upon death, was sealed away, the magics used to do it made his cage look gold:

 

Corypheus-Prison-Final-Seal.png

 

Perhaps the "golden city" was nothing more than other god's sealing magics. Which were breached by the ancient tevinter at the behest of the old gods seaking its power so that they could escape.

 

The old gods do send dreams, and as archdemons, they do this to anything tainted, not just their followers.

 

So the relation of the blight with demons is that this is a similar effect of possession, except instead of demons that are fully conscious and awake, it's from the dead form of a god trying to force itself on you. Forced possession seems to make anything it touches look very fuggly looking, darkspawn or abomination. And so it makes sense that Dumat, blights, demons and all of it are connected. And the old gods show that even when dead, even when asleep, they can still influence things around the and take action. Dumat being the best example as he's dead supposedly and can still grant Corypheus power.

 

If only we knew who the "blight" really was, rather than what. Formless one maybe. Whatever it is, it obviously holds great godlike power, as Corypheus seems to think it can make him a god, and Morrigan thinks he may be right.

 

Also for the connection of demons and Dumat, Corypheus does control them after all.



#2
Willowhugger

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I think the Maker will remain a stand-in for the Christian God.

I think, if he exists, it'll be apart from the world like Yahweh.

 

Not in the Fade or anywhere.

They won't reduce him to being just another big Fade spirit.

 

Sadly, it seems everyone else will be getting their own literal gods.

I feel for the elves because we will probably be able to punch their gods sometime.


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#3
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There are pharaohs and avatars and aspects of nature like Dumat, Toth, Urthemiel, Elgar'nan, Mythal, and Fen'Harel. And then there is the omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent God (capital G) like the Maker which is left up to the player to determine whether He or She is real or not.


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#4
Colonelkillabee

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I think the Maker will remain a stand-in for the Christian God.

I think, if he exists, it'll be apart from the world like Yahweh.

 

Not in the Fade or anywhere.

They won't reduce him to being just another big Fade spirit.

 

Sadly, it seems everyone else will be getting their own literal gods.

I feel for the elves because we will probably be able to punch their gods sometime.

 

Not just another big fade spirit, but the biggest. That's kind of what they already made him out to be, isn't it?

 

Whatever he is, it seems very likely to me that the blight itself, maker or no, is reminiscent of some great spirit's will.



#5
Lady Artifice

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I feel for the elves because we will probably be able to punch their gods sometime.

 

 

It works for the lore pretty well. Just another means to reinforce their role as a Woobie race. 



#6
Colonelkillabee

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Something else, they made it a point that the Eluvian could possibly reach the fade, and that Corypheus might've used it to get there and to the black city.

 

My memory on the Elven origin in DA O is faulty as I did it only once, but didn't the darkspawn actually come from that eluvian?



#7
X Equestris

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We don't know for sure that Dumat is alive in the world in some form. Cory's expansions of power in Legacy could simply be him tapping into the statues. I don't feel like we have enough info to make the claim that Dumat is definitely still around.

#8
Colonelkillabee

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True, it's a little thin on that part. And Corypheus does say "If you've ever existed, help me now." As if he didn't even know. Which is a little strange since he was an archdemon and all, but whatevs.

 

Though with Flemeth holding the will of a dead god, it shows they still carry on. Even weaker spirits do after "death" with wraiths.



#9
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We don't know for sure that Dumat is alive in the world in some form. Cory's expansions of power in Legacy could simply be him tapping into the statues. I don't feel like we have enough info to make the claim that Dumat is definitely still around.

 

The offering at the Shrine of Dumat in Legacy says otherwise. Possibly the most memorable part of that DLC. And why Lord Saren in the Tevinter thread cracks me up.



#10
Colonelkillabee

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The offering at the Shrine of Dumat in Legacy says otherwise. Possibly the most memorable part of that DLC. And why Lord Saren in the Tevinter thread cracks me up.

Ahh right, thank you. I actually completely forgot about that. Demons were summoned during that mission if you didn't do something right? Like if you destroyed the altar?



#11
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Ahh right, thank you. I actually completely forgot about that. Demons were summoned during that mission if you didn't do something right? Like if you destroyed the altar?

 

Still could be Dumat giving you the middle finger for defiling his altar. If you do it right though you get to see Isabella sway her hips. Oh and you get a shiny necklace too.



#12
X Equestris

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The offering at the Shrine of Dumat in Legacy says otherwise. Possibly the most memorable part of that DLC. And why Lord Saren in the Tevinter thread cracks me up.


And could that not be rigged up with magic to do the same thing?

#13
Obvious_Shining

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Have you written anything after or before the smutty story about cass x inquisitor? Just wondering :)



#14
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And could that not be rigged up with magic to do the same thing?

 

Or it could be Dumat. We may never know...



#15
Colonelkillabee

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Have you written anything after or before the smutty story about cass x inquisitor? Just wondering :)

No I haven't yet, sorry :lol: I will though. When I do, it'll be posted here:

 

http://forum.bioware...sandra-romance/

 

Lol as you can see, I didn't get any takers for the first yet, but since you at least liked my story, that's enough for me to write another. Maybe sometime this weekend.


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#16
Jazzpha

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It's kind of frustrating that Gaider's gone on record multiple times as saying that he'll never confirm what the Maker is all about. We're getting the VH1 Behind the Music story of almost every other God/God-like entity in the DA cosmology; why spare potentially the most interesting one?

 

It's not as if confirming or denying what the Maker is will change much of anything for the people actually on the ground in Thedas, anyway. Hell, in DAI you could say "But it's still Andraste's will though" even after seeing concrete evidence of what the Mark is and what caused it.


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#17
Colonelkillabee

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Still could be Dumat giving you the middle finger for defiling his altar. If you do it right though you get to see Isabella sway her hips. Oh and you get a shiny necklace too.

I actually think that's evidence of it being Dumat due to what I think is a tie with him and malevolent spirits. Corypheus did have control over them, and there's the idea that Dumat's modeled slightly from the angel Dumah.



#18
Obvious_Shining

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Lol as you can see, I didn't get any takers for the first yet, but since you at least liked my story, that's enough for me to write another. Maybe sometime this weekend.

Thank you, surprising noone gave feedback, i really enjoyed reading it :)
smutty stuff
FocFiGw.jpg


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#19
Br3admax

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It's kind of frustrating that Gaider's gone on record multiple times as saying that he'll never confirm what the Maker is all about. We're getting the VH1 Behind the Music story of almost every other God/God-like entity in the DA cosmology; why spare potentially the most interesting one?

 

It's not as if confirming or denying what the Maker is will change much of anything for the people actually on the ground in Thedas, anyway. Hell, in DAI you could say "But it's still Andraste's will though" even after seeing concrete evidence of what the Mark is and what caused it.

Which is entirely the point of not showing if the Maker exists or not. 



#20
Colonelkillabee

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Thank you, surprising noone gave feedback, i really enjoyed reading it :)
smutty stuff
FocFiGw.jpg

:lol: I love writing them too, lol. It was discouraging, but when you have something you want to write, you write it regardless of how many like it, so I've definitely got more coming, promise. And thank you very much for the encouragement, that really means everything.


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