421 réponses à ce sujet

[Kurt M.]

Well, I almost always pick up James and Garrus anyway, althought this time it'll be Kaidan and either one of them. Nice complement to my actual Novaguard CryoTalon Shep.

 

Also

 

[Vazgen]

I don't know why they did that. Lack of time, I imagine. Having at least your love interest on the ship would've been great. 

[Iakus]

 

 

I think as epic as the Suicide Mission was it shouldn't have happened in ME 2 but rather in ME 3 with your full squad. They didn't plan this right and because everyone could die in ME 2 we got ME 3's boring earth mission they obviously didn't want to waste resources for characters that could be dead and for replacements

 

THis answers your question right here.  They can potentially be dead or, in some cases, never recruited to begin with.  So their impact had to be minimal.  Add to that the sheer number of characters and things get unwieldy fast.

 

Likely the only way you're ever going to get to run with them in your group is the Armax Arena.

 

But as an Ashley fan, I gotta say, not too pleased with the treatment of all teh ME1 cast either.

 

Good to see you

Good to see you

Good to see you

Good to see you

 

[Valmar]

Because there was way too many of them, some of them were OPTIONAL squadmates you could avoid and nearly all of them could be dead. I'm guessing thats why. Not that I'm happy with it, though.

 

I will say this though some of them did have reasonable excuses to not be there, imo.

 

Grunt was leading his own krogan squad though has no excuse if you sacrifice his squad.

Kasumi is just a thief.

Legion is important to the plot with the quarian vs geth arc and later dead.

Jack has her students, her family.

Thane is sick and dying, later dead.

Mordin is important to the plot with the genophage arc. Later dead, essentially.

Miranda is important to the Horizon plot.

Wrex is important to the krogan and has responsibilities to Tuchunka.

 

 

Now who lacks a good excuse?

 

Zaeed doesn't have a good excuse in the story but at the same time he never actually gave an excuse so... Its not good or bad. I figured he'd be leading the blue suns but I guess I was wrong.

 

Samara's excuse is weak and one could argue its even a bit contradictory to the oath she swore to Shepard in the second game.

 

Jacob has the worse excuse I've ever heard, ever.

 

 

Really, in a way, they're not even all screwed over. Miranda, Mordin, Wrex, Thane and Legion all had pretty important roles in the main story, as opposed to just small side-missions.

 

 

If you just want them as temporary squadmates you could get the Citadel DLC. Not much but its an option.

 

Also, I wouldn't go as far as to say Tali is favorite character. While, personally, I love Tali and she's my favorite the statistics they release suggest shes not really THAT popular. She was on the bottom of the favorite squad statistics* and only surpassed the virmire survivor. Liara on the other hand, while I don't really like her myself, is top of that chart. Though the fact that she isn't unlocked until like halfway through the game probably didn't help her chances. Also Tali almost didn't even make it in ME3 as a squadmate**, so that has to tell you something about the character's popularity.

 

*

Spoiler

**

Spoiler

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-23-mass-effect-3-nearly-didnt-have-tali-as-a-playable-character

 

 

Sidenote: Speak for yourself in regards to the multiplayer. I love it and still play it routinely to this day. So do many people. Lol.

[MrFob]

I don't really think they were screwed over either. But then, I was never expecting most of them to have more than cameos.While ME2 was very linear in it's plot and could therefore support the variability in terms of squad mates, ME3 is an extremely variable game in terms of how the plot can go. So naturally, you have to conserve resources somewhere and it makes perfect sense that you don't get 20+ squad mates.

 

I agree that it would have been nice to have more temporary squad mates but then again, most of the characters are around during their resepctive missions, even if you cannot control them.

 

Also, as Valmar said, most of them have plausible reasons for not being on your team. In fact, I think it goes to show that - while the Normandy is an essential part of this war - the events that occur are bigger in scale than just that one ship. That goes especially for people like Samara, Jack or Grunt, who are still fighting, just somewhere else. The fact that not all the people you know are at your side but that they have to split up for the best effectiveness makes the entire affair seem larger in scope and as far as I am concerned that is a good thing.

 

Also, while silly in a way, Citadel does make up for a lot of lost time with the squad. I would have liked it better if it would have been integrated more into the main plot than just saying "shore leave!" but still, you do get very heart felt reunions with all members of your old team.

 

In short, I understand the technical reasons why the old ME2 squad was handled this way and I think the story reasons that the writers came up with are plausible, so - although I agree there may have been room for some improvement - I don;t have a problem in that regard.

[Vazgen]

What I dislike the most is that if you romanced someone from ME2 (except Garrus and Tali), you end up alone before the final battle. And Garrus and Tali are my two favorite squadmates and I have no quarrel with them in ME3.

[Valmar]

^ And where did I say something bad about the Multiplayer? I like it too and played it for a long time

 

It is what I interpreted from this:

 

we should have gotten something like the SM in Me3 with our full Squad from all three games but nope instead we got a multiplayer session and boring shooting gallery

 

Though, in hindsight, perhaps I was too quick to assume the 'boring shooting gallery' was referring to the multiplayer.
 

 

Also these numbers are only for ME 3 so thats why Tali isn't so popular like you said she only appears in the second half

And the fact that they chose her to be a squadmate means that she alongside Garrus was the only one worth picking from the ME 2 squad (from Biowares perspective)

 

 I'm not dissing Tali, for the record. Like I said, she's my personal favorite. I even make it a point to save as many missions as I can specifically so I can do them with her and Garrus. I was merely pointing out  the statistics and the fact that she almost didn't make it in the game as being evidence suggesting she isn't nearly as popular as one might think. It's similar, imo, to Femshep and Wrex. On the internet you hear all kinds of praise and love for these characters that you'd think surely they were a big deal in the statistics. Then you look at the number and realize no, no they're not. They have a passionate fanbase online, sure, but that doesn't mean they're popular to the millions of people who don't talk about it online.

 

 

And I think all the excuses are pretty lame sure some seem plausible but Garrus left his homeworld to fight with Shepard and Tali her new home

they all know whats at stake so some squad or students can wait in my opinion

And Mirandas reason is probably the worst especially since we are fighting Cerberus all the time

 

 I guess its subjective. Just because Tali and Garrus, the only two squadmates who stay with you through the whole trilogy, leave for you doesn't mean you should expect EVERYONE to do it. I thought a lot of the excuses were very reasonable and fitted into the story well. The issue is that as a player we tend to get emotionally attached to all these characters and don't want to see them NOT be part of our squad. We want them to tag along just like old times and that emotional bias makes it hard to see that it wouldn't be for the best for them to do so.

 

I see nothing lame about Mordin and Wrex, for example. Even objectively, I just can't see how them being on the squad would had been BETTER. Their roles in the plot were very important and they do more for the reaper war doing what they're doing then they ever could by just staying on the Normandy waiting for Shepard to pick them up for a mission.

 

 

I'm also not saying that they should have big roles in the game but they could have been temporary squadmates in their arcs

like Mordin during the genophage or Miranda during Horizon and Cerberus HQ

 

 My point was that some of them DO have big roles in the game. Even sick, dying Thane manages to play a fairly important part in the main story (though I still think he received too little attention as a whole).

 

Having them as a temporary squadmates would had been nice - though I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be a bit annoyed by it if it was mandatory. I hate it when the game tells me I /have/ to have a certain character in my squad. Like From Ashes forcing me to bring Liara. Or the attack on TIM's base forcing me to bring EDI.

 

 

 

I absolutely hated Bioware's Mass Effect 1 favoritism and in my opinion those weren't plausible reasons at all some are ok but thats just how Bioware wrote them, Garrus leaving Palaven or Tali her new home doesn't make sense either but of course because they are favourite characters they get a free pass

 

Lol, what? Favoritism? Over what, Liara? Garrus was in the second game, so I wouldn't link him to being 'Mass Effect 1 favoritism'. Half of the characters from the first game are either not in your squad at all or not part of your squad until halfway through the game. I wouldn't call that favoritism.

 

If you really think their excuses weren't plausible at all then, respectfully, I think you're being blinded by emotions here. If you don't think Garrus and Tali make any sense, its again subjective. Garrus leaving makes sense to me because he knows he can do more good in the war fighting with Shepard. He has a lot of self-doubt, as you discover when talking to him. Tali, if memory serves correctly, didn't even plan on joining Shepard after the geth conflict - she just changed her mind at the last moment and explains to you her reasons.

 

 

yeah and the goodbyes are also pretty bad (especially Mirandas) no emotion just a distant see you later compared to Liaras goodbye (and she was only a good friend for my Shep) it was almost as she was my LI

 

Maybe because Liara has always had a crush on Shepard. Look at the lengths she went to save Shepard's body at the hope of bringing him back.

 

You keep mentioning Miranda I'm beginning to suspect that you romanced her and thats why you're so upset over this. You really think her excuse was worse than Jacob's? Jacob doesn't want to fight and help because he has a girlfriend and wants to go make babies somewhere. Life as we know it is coming to an end and his priorities is to have a family life. Miranda on the other hand has had a vindictive grudge against her faddah since we've known her. As for Miranda's goodbye having no emotion... you've kinda summed up her entire character since ME2 for me. Not exactly out of character for her.

 

 

I also have no quarrel with Liara, Garrus or Tali but I still hate that Bioware favoured them so much over the others

 

Tali doesn't join your squad until halfway through the damn game (same in ME2, actually). Liara was 'favored' because it actually fits the story. She is the one who discovered the reaper off-device that the entire game plot is basically centered around.

[Nitrocuban]

I'm pretty sure Bioware wanted to bring everyone back as temorary squadmates (e.g. Miranda on Sanctuary, Wrex on Tuchanka, Mordin on Surkesh and so on) but then they run out of time and did cut all that down.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Combination of rushed development time and the combination of status, loyalty, and recruitment flags insured that they wouldn't be integral to the plot (unless BioWare wanted to create psuedo clones of them all).

 

Even then some of the choices are pretty odd. I guess that what happens when you don't plan ahead.

[themikefest]

yeah EA probably rushing them and also like I said they can be dead so they didn't want to waste resources

Garrus and Tali can be dead, but they made them squadmates.

 

One thing that bothers me is they had no problem putting Wrex as a squadmate in the Citadel dlc, but for some reason ME2 squadmates weren't included. Why is that? Because he's an ME1 squadmate. If I romanced Miranda or Jack, I'd be upset neither of them could be with Shepard during the casino mission. What makes the ME1 squadmates better than ME2 squadmates at distracting the guards? Samantha and Steve can be added to that, but they're not squadmates or ME1 characters

 

I don't see why the ME2 squadmates couldn't be included to be used for certain missions. 

 

If Bioware had another 12 months for ME3, who knows how different the game would be. Unfortunately that time has come and gone.

 

I have to remember that this is ME3. Its where to start playing a trilogy. So ME1 and ME2 never happened. 

[SNascimento]

This question is right there with "Was Jesus real?" and "Where did life come from?".

[Iakus]

I really don't get why you keep defending Bioware sry its ridiculous

 

Liara doesn't fit the main story any more than other characters but because Bioware favoured her and liked her the most they made her important for the plot (she found the Crucible) its the way they wrote her

And its the same with the lame excuses, its the way Bioware wrote them its not whats "best for them" as you keep saying and they wouldn't just waste time being on the Normandy because Shepard is doing the most to stop the war he is uniting the races and finding people for the Cruicble the Normandy is the best place if you want to help Shepard (as all the ME 2 squadmates would want to if Bioware didn't wrote them like they did in ME3)

 

1. Grunt could have easily joined Shepard his battlemaster if the Aralakh company was sacrificed and even if not he knows the stakes

2. Mordin could have joined the Squad for the Tuchanka missions it would make the most sense

3. Legion could have joined for the Rannoch missions

4. Samara is a justicar she can do whatever she wants

etc.

 

They all know better than anyone what's at stake and that Shepard is clearly the best person to aid in the fight but they just blow you off for their silly personal reasons

 

Lets not kid ourselves the only reason why the ME2 squadmates got screwed over in ME 3 is that Bioware didn't had or didn't want to waste resources for characters that could be dead and for also for replacements
if the devs wanted them to fight with Shepard they would there is no logical character reason mate

Those are not insignificant resources though.

 

They'd have to include lines and reactions from all those characters, references to flagged choices.  Interactions with other characters (who may or may not be dead themselves), And do that for twice as many characters as the ME3 crew.

 

Twelve characters, all of whom could be dead.  Many of whom could be never encountered to begin with.  Even as even temporary companions, It's simply not feasible,  No it's not "best for them" but these characters were doomed to cameodom from the start.

[Valmar]

I really don't get why you keep defending Bioware sry its ridiculous

 

Because there was way too many of them, some of them were OPTIONAL squadmates you could avoid and nearly all of them could be dead. I'm guessing thats why. Not that I'm happy with it, though.

 

That's defending them? I'm not going to lie and pretend they didn't at least try to make the story excuses for why the don't join you make sense in the narrative. That doesn't mean I'm defending it. Believe it or not I was disappointed that practically everyone from ME2 was excluded from your squad with Thane being the only one who even tried to contact Shepard during the lockdown. Seriously, some friends, right? Half of them don't even seem to be fully aware of Shepard's situation. Thane was the only one who tried to keep contact.

 

Just because I'm disappointed in it doesn't mean I can't acknowledge the fact that they present reasonable explanations for many of them. Like I said earlier  the only one who doesn't have an explanation is Zaeed. While their excuses aren't all infallible the majority of them made sense to me and weren't unreasonable, imo. I'm not going to call all their excuses implausible nonsense just because I'm unhappy with the direction Bioware took. That wouldn't be fair, imo.

 

 

Liara doesn't fit the main story any more than other characters but because Bioware favoured her and liked her the most they made her important for the plot (she found the Crucible) its the way they wrote her

 

Actually, Shepard, Liara since the beginning of the trilogy has been the go-to "prothean expert" character. She's dedicated her life to researching them and unlocking their secrets. This was all a really big part of her character - did you play the first game by chance? Having her be one of the head researchers going through prothean archives to discover stuff about the reapers makes perfect sense in the narrative, its the role she was created to fill since the first game. Infact you first recruit her in the first game at a prothean research site.

 

If they had made it anyone else many people would had saw it as a wasted opportunity to introduce Liara back into the squad, imo. Similar to how some see Allers as a wasted potential since her role could had been filled by Emily Wong instead of introducing a brand new character to fit a role that could had already been filled by an already established character.

 

As for Bioware favoring her... maybe. Though if anything I'd see it as them making up for the fact that she is practically absent from all of ME2. I imagine a lot of Liaramancers (is that a term?) were upset about that little detail. Not only does she have little to no role in ME2 without the DLC but her personality has changed rather dramatically. So its kinda hard for me to take a "Bioware favors Liara" claim seriously when so many players felt she was cast aside in the second game.

 

 

 

And its the same with the lame excuses, its the way Bioware wrote them its not whats "best for them" as you keep saying and they wouldn't just waste time being on the Normandy because Shepard is doing the most to stop the war he is uniting the races and finding people for the Cruicble the Normandy is the best place if you want to help Shepard (as all the ME 2 squadmates would want to if Bioware didn't wrote them like they did in ME3)

 

I said 'waste time on the Normandy' because Shepard only takes two squadmates to any mission. I imagine there were a lot of squadies in ME2 you could say you 'ignored' for the most part. When I said 'best for them' I was referring more specifically to Wrex and Mordin, as I originally highlighted after initially saying it. I still stand by that assertion.

 

Think objectively about Wrex. What would be more useful to the reaper war effort. Having him leading and keeping the krogan inline and following orders... or just being another squadmate that shoots things alongside Shepard.

 

You really think he would be better off fighting with Shepard rather than essentially running Tuchunka? Hell, the only thing that keeps me from sabotaging the genophage cure is the fact that Wrex is the one in change.

 

What about Mordin? Objectively what role could he fill that best serves the reaper war effort? Doing what he is best at and working on the genophage cure... or just being another gun for Shepard? In ME2 I'll remind you he wasn't even recruited for his battlefield experience. He was recruited for his brilliant mind. He is a scientist, the best in his field. He can do far more good ensuring the genophage is cured which is absolutely VITAL to the war effort.

 

Mordin and Wrex can both fill roles that the great Commander Shepard never could. Shepard can't lead all the Krogan and keep them in-line. Well, not at that point anyway, lol. Shepard cannot cure the genophage. Shepard is a soldier, not a scientist. Wrex spent the past two years preparing for the role he now fills in ME3. Mordin spent many more years preparing for the role he now fills. They were made for these roles, they're integral parts of the story. To pretend that they don't fit these roles perfectly just because you would rather them be with you instead is just silly. This is why I say its 'best for them'.

 

 

 

1. Grunt could have easily joined Shepard his battlemaster if the Aralakh company was sacrificed and even if not he knows the stakes

 

I agree. Infact if you read my post you'd notice I basically said the same thing. I think it sucks that we can't bring Grunt back on board. I liked Grunt more than Wrex, so yeah, I was annoyed by it. He had a good excuse before you killed his squad, though. I thought it was nice that Grunt was growing up and now leading his own squad. Hell, I was proud of him. Infact if I had to choose between seeing Grunt leading a charge of krogan warriors in the final push for earth or having him headbutting things in my squad... I think I'd prefer to see him leading a charge. Sadly we get neither at the end so I digress.

 

2. Mordin could have joined the Squad for the Tuchanka missions it would make the most sense.

3. Legion could have joined for the Rannoch missions

4. Samara is a justicar she can do whatever she wants

 

2. His excuse was reasonable enough for me. He was doing last minute tests on Eve to ensure the cures viability. There are other ways they could had went with it, sure, but I'm not going to pretend the presented scenario doesn't work well for the story. Plus Mordin is a key critical role in this mission - if anything was to happen to him things would be... problematic.

 

3. That would had been nice.

 

4. As long as the code allows it, you mean.    If you recall I actually pointed out that her excuse was flimsy and didn't fit well. I wasn't defending it, I criticized it.

 

It's also perhaps important to note for context that while you seem to be referring to minor one-or-two missions where they could temporarily join you, I was talking about why they don't join your squad indefinitely, like your included fanart picture demonstrates in the squad selection screen.

 

 

They all know better than anyone what's at stake and that Shepard is clearly the best person to aid in the fight but they just blow you off for their silly personal reasons

Who gives personal reasons? Jacob and Miranda? You could argue Jack but she does actually play a role in the war effort so its not entirely personal. Certainly not 'all' of the squad, you're blowing it out of proportion. Most of your ex-squad are helping out the war effort in their own way, many still in ways that are more significant then they could had achieved as just another soldier under Shepard's command. Hell, the virmire survivor is actually more useful as a war asset than as a squadie.

 

Lets not kid ourselves the only reason why the ME2 squadmates got screwed over in ME 3 is that Bioware didn't had or didn't want to waste resources for characters that could be dead and for also for replacements
 

 

Who's kidding themselves? This was the first  thing I ever said here. Relax.

 

 

if the devs wanted them to fight with Shepard they would there is no logical character reason mate

 

Sigh, it was only a matter of time before the 'logical' defense came up. If I had a nickle for every time someone used that word as if it actually added credibility to their position...

 

I stand by my earlier assumption that you're being too emotional about this and not seeing things clearly. For hanar's sake, Thane was a dying man in the hospital. You really think it makes no logical sense to keep him out of the battlefield? Poor Drell can't catch a break. There he is, out of time and literally on his last days just trying to have a peaceful end and you're going "not logical, not logical!" when he doesn't want to join up with you to fight the reapers.

[MrFob]

Liaramancers (is that a term?)

I would rather call Liara a Shepardmancer because she is actually the initiator most of the time. Also, she effectively "necroed" Shepard before ME2, so Shepardmancer is a fitting term here.

 

On topic, I agree with you Valmar. Only got two additions:

1. lakus has a good point. The resources that would have been sunk here are not insignificant.

2. I disagree about some squad mates not having a good reason. In fact, I think the only one who has a really dumb reason to decline is Jacob (and one can argue that even that is in character ). Grunt's unit, even if wiped out is not gone completely and is being rebuilt. Also, in ME2, he finally gets to terms with being a Krogan and an Urdnot. It makes sense that he is no longer isolated from his peers, especially after he apparently impressively managed to get their respect between ME2 and 3. Samara only swore herself to Shep for the ME2 mission. In fact, she explicitly states that after the SM is over, she will no longer be bound to Shep. While she has no particular reason not to join the Normandy crew again, it makes sense for a character, so routed in Asari society to fight with her people. Also, I realize a lot of people wanted to romance her but seriously, it would not have fit her sombre and distantly wise character at all IMO. I already think the Citadel scene is quite a stretch. It's another one of those instances where you have to weigh character development vs. fan service and BW made the right choices here IMO.

[Obadiah]

I just look at it as different Shepards with different stories. Sometimes, Shepard just looks at a picture before the Suicide Mission, and sometimes Shepard is just alone before the final battle for Earth.

[Cobwebmaster]

Agreed. Whatever number of squad members (depending upon earlier choices) you could easily end up with squads mates not playing any future part in the most important chapter of the game - the final one. Why didn't the Normandy drop them when (for me Garrus and EDI became WIA) not that the Normandy lifting off 2 wounded soldiers should have happened anyway too big a risk for all the crew with the massive firefight going on

[teh DRUMPf!!]

This question is right there with "Was Jesus real?" and "Where did life come from?".

 

No it isn't. Those questions cannot be sensibly answered with "Poor planning."