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[wolfhowwl]

The other party members that are guaranteed to be alive for ME3 are James and EDI. I'm sure using them instead of Liara would have gone over swimmingly.

[Based Prothean]

 

Don't confuse Liara getting lots of screentime as devs wanting you to romance her, especially since you could easlly apply that same logic to Garrus, who gets even more screetime(seriously, the dude is everywhere), and I don't see people saying Bioware is forcing them to romance Garrus. Though tbh, they should have, he has the best Femshep romance in ME3, even with that crappy pre-cronos romance scene lol

 

I always found it funny that some people complain that a character they don't like gets too much screen time, but are like crickets when someone they do like also get a lot of it(some will even try to defend it). Garrus does get shoved in our faces as much as Liara, but most fans like him for other reasons, so you won't hear a whole lot of critisism of that.

[Iakus]

The other party members that are guaranteed to be alive for ME3 are James and EDI. I'm sure using them instead of Liara would have gone over swimmingly.

Notice ho w much more heavilly they were used in Leviathan than Liara? 

[Quarian Master Race]

If you don't like a particular character, why the hell are you engaging in optional dialogue with them? Liara is only "forced" on you at Mars Thessia, and a few after mission cutscenes which is as mentioned not much different from Garrus(especially), Tali and the sexbot.

[themikefest]

If you don't like a particular character, why the hell are you engaging in optional dialogue with them? Liara is only "forced" on you at Mars Thessia, and a few after mission cutscenes which is as mentioned not much different from Garrus(especially), Tali and the sexbot.

Garrus is forced on Menae and right after the genophaged is cured or sabotaged

 

Liara has Mars, the scene after talking to Hackett, the 1st and 2nd dream, after talking with Hackett and Anderson after the coup and Thessia

 

Tali is on the dreadnought and Rannoch missions

 

edibot forced on Chronos

 

James is forced the first part of Mars and Menae

[von uber]

and since Liara was always the writer's pet they used her the most

 

 

Yep, that really showed in ME2.

 

If anything, Garrus has the most content out of everybody, regardless if he can be dead or not. I never understood why Liara gets this moniker (especially from people who seem to go out of their way to talk to her -  for example the entirely optional capsule and goodbye scene) when Garrus has so much more in terms of dialogue and content over all three games.

 

"Good to see you" - yes, real top quality writers pet content there. Plus, as noted elsewhere, her romance (especially for a continuous trilogy romance) is pretty sub-par. It's like a complete reset come ME3. Why do you have to wait until after the citadel coup to reconfirm it? There should have been a paragon interrupt on Mars (for those doing a romanced trilogy import) where you give her a kiss - like when you meet Traynor in the Citadel DLC.

[Vazgen]

Garrus is forced on Menae and right after the genophaged is cured or sabotaged

 

Liara has Mars, the scene after talking to Hackett, the 1st and 2nd dream, after talking with Hackett and Anderson after the coup and Thessia

 

Tali is on the dreadnought and Rannoch missions

 

edibot forced on Chronos

 

James is forced the first part of Mars and Menae

Rannoch mission. She does not have to come to Admiral Koris and Geth Fighter Squadron missions.

To add to your list - Edi is forced in three investigation sequences of Leviathan DLC, James in one.

[themikefest]

Rannoch mission. She does not have to come to Admiral Koris and Geth Fighter Squadron missions.

I wasn't referring to those missions

She is required to be on Rannoch when fighting the 3 geth primes and deciding the fate of the geth and quarians

To add to your list - Edi is forced in three investigation sequences of Leviathan DLC, James in one.

Leviathan is an optional dlc that does not have to be played

[wright1978]

Yep, that really showed in ME2.
 
"Good to see you" - yes, real top quality writers pet content there. Plus, as noted elsewhere, her romance (especially for a continuous trilogy romance) is pretty sub-par. It's like a complete reset come ME3. Why do you have to wait until after the citadel coup to reconfirm it? There should have been a paragon interrupt on Mars (for those doing a romanced trilogy import) where you give her a kiss - like when you meet Traynor in the Citadel DLC.

They decided Liara had to appeal to new and old players alike, hence why I'd guess those continuing romance suffer a feeling of reset. on the other hand many who didn't or had ended things got a stalker won't say no vibe. I think it was a very bad decision to have her invading the captain's quarters and the way they doubled up romance and non romance dialogue contributed to this problem. As for interrupts I'd have liked a lot more interrupts as a whole.

[Valmar]

I just realized while reading this that Jack has Walter White's character arc, but played in reverse. Or even Liara's arc played in reverse, if you want to consider the whole information broker / Shadow Broker thing as criminal.

 

Unlike Walter White however she gets very little character development. She just suddenly becomes a responsible upstanding citizen between games, with no explanation, not unlike Liara's undeveloped shift from archaeologist to information broker.

 

Part of that is the limitations of the medium. It's more difficult to properly develop characters in a video game than it is in a television series. Still, I wish the comics or novels at least had been more focused on filling in those missing backstories. Instead we got Mass Effect: Now With More Cerberus Issue #47.

 

At least Liara had the benefit of a two-year window. A lot can change in two years time. Jack's little transition happened over the course of a few months. Bit more of a stretch.

 

 

Thane and Miranda getting big roles in ME3?
lol

 

Underused, certainly, but they do get bigger roles than most of the ME2 squad. Unlike some others who essentially only show up during optional side missions, Thane and Miranda (even Ashley/Kaidan) show up and can play a important roles within the main story. You can't miss them. Well, other than Thane, if you completely ignore him, I think.

 

 

 
Here's another one.
 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Take the non-import Shepard playthrough.  The one where Miranda is not loyal and thus always dies.

 

That is the "real" ME3 story, of which everything else only carries slight variations.

 

Especially applicable if you play no-import action mode Shepard.

 

Well of course, ME3 is the place to start the trilogy.

 

 

It would have been interesting to see the reaction of Liara fans if she was shafted in ME3 instead of Jack or Miranda

 

Kinda like how she was shafted in ME2? Seriously, man, it seems to me that you let your emotions cloud your reasoning here. You're putting a lot of exaggeration on Liara simply because you feel jaded your Miranda romance wasn't fleshed out as much as you'd like. Join the club, who doesn't feel that way about their LI? You think Liara fans are hopping and giddy with closure and happiness? Especially when you factor in the ending of the trilogy that universally shafted ALL romance options to some degree or another.

 

At least Miranda played an important role in the main storyline. A lot of the others are just optional side-mission fodder that you can avoid. They're either dying, cheating or constantly doubting you and pointing guns at you. Miranda could had been worse. Wasted potential, sure, though I'd argue that Jack fans were more 'shafted' than Miranda lovers - doesn't Miranda get like 3x the screen time than Jack? This little "woe is Miranda, hiss hiss Liara" crusade is rather silly and overly emotional, imo.

 

You want to complain about Miranda not getting enough attention? The complain about it. There's no need to go pointing blame at other LIs. This "ME1 favoritism, Liara writers pet" rubbish isn't required.

 

yeah but Garrus can die so if someone doesn't like him (I do) they can just kill him off but Liara is just forced on you

and gets way too much screentime in ME3

 

But no I haven't done the Liara romance interesting to see that you didn't like it I have only heard positive opinions

 

Funny, with all that you complain about her I figured you'd have at least done one playthrough with her to get a better understanding of what you're fighting against. Remember to keep the Liara writers pet agenda in mind when you romance her in ME2. It will lessen the blow if you keep that delusion.

 

 

Rannoch mission. She does not have to come to Admiral Koris and Geth Fighter Squadron missions.

To add to your list - Edi is forced in three investigation sequences of Leviathan DLC, James in one.

 

Edi is also 'forced' into interaction with the player after the mission on Palavan's moon. You have to talk to her in the AI core to investigate why the ship went crazy. 

[TMA LIVE]

I think time and money was more of the reason they got more shaft. The suicide mission didn't help, but keep in mind, Garrus and Tali were just as killable, and yet they had an important parts and were squadmates. Tali almost didn't become a squadmate in ME3 because of time, and luckily Patrick was willing to make the time. If they had another year and more money, I'm sure you'd see Jack and Miranda as temp squadmates at the very least. And judging by old interviews with Casey, it sounds like that was the original plan.

[themikefest]

I think time and money was more of the reason they got more shaft. The suicide mission didn't help, but keep in mind, Garrus and Tali were just as killable, and yet they had an important parts and were squadmates. Tali almost didn't become a squadmate in ME3 because of time, and luckily Patrick was willing to make the time. If they had another year and more money, I'm sure you'd see Jack and Miranda as temp squadmates at the very least. And judging by old interviews with Casey, it sounds like that was the original plan.

What important part did Garrus have?

[Valmar]

What important part did Garrus have?

 

Someone has to keep the Normandy calibrated and the bottles in line.

[Daemul]

 

But no I haven't done the Liara romance interesting to see that you didn't like it I have only heard positive opinions

 

Really? I've only seen the opposite. There's no way anyone who romanced Liara throughtout the trilogy found her romance in ME3 good, no way in hell. Romances in general in ME3 were poor, but that's a topic for another day. 

 

The only way I could even imagine anyone seeing her romance in ME3 as positive, would be if they made the mistake of confusing Liara's friendship arc, with her romance arc, which I really wouldn't blame them for since Bioware did a terrible job in separating the two. After you play both sides of the fence though, i.e romance her in one playthrough, romance someone else in another playthrough, you won't help but notice how Bioware cheaped out in the romance department and invested 100 times more effort in the friendship side. 

 

That legendary lock in convo on the Citadel though.....

 

"I wish we could spend more time together like this."

 

 

 

Just....friends...."

 

 

[Quarian Master Race]

What important part did Garrus have?

He was co-coordinating a lot of the turian war effort on Palaven with high command. Of course, absolutely nothing bad happens if he gets offed in ME2. It's not like with Tali where the potential outcome of the Rannoch arc changes by not having her around as a peace advocate, or to a lesser extent Wrex and the Genophage arc outcomes. Kind of odd really, as he is obviously a favourite among both the writers and the fanbase, so you'd think he would actually have some kind of important role to play other than Shep's best bro.
 

[von uber]

even if you felt that the romance with Liara wasn't satisfying in ME3 still doesn't change the fact that she got the most screentime and importance in the main story by far

thats why she remains the writer's pet

 

It's been pointed out to you ad naseum that this isn't really the case, yet you still post the same points. The fact that you are upset that Miranda (who has a lot of screen time really, especially when compared to say Jack, Jacob, Mordin, Samara, Thane, Grunt etc) was underutilised shouldn't mean you end up with a bizarre fixation over one character.

 

And I suggest you try a Liara romance playthrough - especially ME2 without LotSB - then come back and say she was favoured.

[o Ventus]

THis answers your question right here.  They can potentially be dead or, in some cases, never recruited to begin with.  So their impact had to be minimal.  Add to that the sheer number of characters and things get unwieldy fast.

 

Like Garrus, Tali, Kaidan, and Ashley.

 

The VS and the dextros make up half the squad in ME3, but they can all be dead.

[o Ventus]

The fact that you are upset that Miranda (who has a lot of screen time really, especially when compared to say Jack, Jacob, Mordin, Samara, Thane, Grunt etc) 

 

And I suggest you try a Liara romance playthrough - especially ME2 without LotSB - then come back and say she was favoured.

Mordin has far more time in the limelight than any other ME2 character save Legion.

 

And... Congratulations for Miranda? She has 10 minutes of screen time as compared to Jack or Samara having 5? That's... Better in a 25 or 30-hour game?

[TMA LIVE]

What important part did Garrus have?

Being your forced bro from beginning to end of course, silly.

[themikefest]

Being your forced bro from beginning to end of course, silly.

 

I don't recruit him in ME1. I have him killed in ME2. In ME3, I have Shepard without Vakarian. Excellent.   He wasn't forced for me, silly.

[grey_wind]

I don't recruit him in ME1. I have him killed in ME2. In ME3, I have Shepard without Vakarian. Excellent.   He wasn't forced for me, silly.

I think this is the part a lot of people miss though when comparing Garrus being "forced" on you. In ME1 and 3 he's completely optional if you don't want him, and in ME2 you can pretty much ignore him and kill him off at the end game. Liara on the other hand is completely mandatory in both ME1 and 3, and starting from ME2, Shepard is forced to like this mandatory character no matter what.

 

And a lot of her content in ME3 isn't really optional. She's forced on you for three missions including Eden Prime, and the "write your name in the star scenes" is completely unavoidable if you linger on her email for a second too long and then want to call other people up to your cabin.

 

The romance path for Liara in ME3 is lousy. But people do have a right to complain that her "friendship" is incredibly forced and contrived. Comparing her to a more optional character like Garrus isn't really fair (and I'm not a huge fan of the forced friendship between Shep and Garrus either).