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[themikefest]

Joker and Chakwas aren't boots on the ground. Shepard needed teammates to stick around in each game, to go out into the field, to watch their back,

Are you saying Garrus and Tali got/watched Shepard's back? 

[shepskisaac]

Oh no, it's not a matter of releasing a bigger game, but continually making content to flesh the game out and make it larger and more inclusive over time.

And that doesn't require time/budget?

[Han Shot First]

Garrus & Tali ended up squadmates in every game mainly because after ME1 there were lots of people campaigning for Tali & Garrus to be made LIs in the second chapter. If not for them being made LIs in response to that feedback, I have a feeling that we would have had an entirely new squad in ME2 and Garrus & Tali would have got cameos like the rest of the ME1 squaddies.

 

I didn't have a problem with them returning in every chapter, particularly Garrus who is one of my favorites. But for those that do...blame their fans and Bioware making decisions based on fan service.

[God]

That's what I do. I plain just do not get the appeal of the Dextros. I mean, I understand it on an intellectual level, but I don't agree with it.

 

Then again, I'm rather too alpha for many of those people myself. I don't want to be a jerkass, but I've seen a lot of the people that like Tali and Garrus. Not everyone, but a lot of them are the otaku types who don't have much of an ability to be social. Again, I'm not saying this to be mean, but from what I've seen of many of the fans (I reiterate, many, not all) of Tali and Garrus is that they're the people who fit the traditional nerd stereotype.

 

I'm the rare type that's both social and anti-social. I hate people, but I love being around them and being in charge. Comes with the ENTJ/INTJ territory. And is one big reason I'm such a fan of Miranda. And it's why I think we get a bad rap. We have a tendency to be arrogant like no ones business. I won't lie, I do myself, personally and professionally (big shocker I know). And, in my defense, I can usually prove it.

[Iakus]

Garrus & Tali ended up squadmates in every game mainly because after ME1 there were lots of people campaigning for Tali & Garrus to be made LIs in the second chapter. If not for them being made LIs in response to that feedback, I have a feeling that we would have had an entirely new squad in ME2 and Garrus & Tali would have got cameos like the rest of the ME1 squaddies.

 

I didn't have a problem with them returning in every chapter, particularly Garrus who is one of my favorites. But for those that do...blame their fans and Bioware making decisions based on fan service.

"Archangel" was not originally going to be Garrus.

[The Arbiter]

Bioware should've known better and just ignore it. And before someone says "what if next time they ignore something you want", we're talking Tali (and Garrus) being squadates for the THIRD time. Way different than, say, someone asking for Aria to be a squadmate. Especially considering how big Rannoch arc is in the game, she didn't need to be squadmate at all. She was going to have plenty of screentime regardless, just as Legion/Mordin/Wrex in the 2 main arcs.

 

As much work and contraints as they had in ME3, they also made some big 'resources allocation' mistakes that could've been avoided. Tali/Garrus being one of the biggest.

I have an idea... make everyone a squadmate .. the Normandy is big enough for all

[chidingewe8036]

How about this y'all, MASS EFFECT 3 never happened, just head canon your own ending to the series (that's what I did, and its on paper and a hella lot better than what they came up with, but good for me right? Whatever helps me sleep right?). I just hope and pray in the next trilogy they have a planned out plot from beginning to end, introduce a team of beloved characters that stick together throughout with very few changes, close relationships, and keep the combat system from ME3, that duck and roll was bad ass.

[shepskisaac]

I have an idea... make everyone a squadmate .. the Normandy is big enough for all

Sure. Just go back in time and convince EA to give BW 2 more years of dev time for ME3

[themikefest]

Sure. Just go back in time and convince EA to give BW 2 more years of dev time for ME3

Even 12 months would be enough extra time. Or better yet, make it 2 games instead of cramming everything into one game like they did with the time they had

[shepskisaac]

Even 12 months would be enough extra time. Or better yet, make it 2 games instead of cramming everything into one game like they did with the time they had

Well, they had ME2 for that as well. But they decided to essentially "pause" all ME1 choices and pile them up for ME3.

[wolfhowwl]

Even 12 months would be enough extra time. Or better yet, make it 2 games instead of cramming everything into one game like they did with the time they had

 

BioWare didn't have to spend 2/3 of ME3 resolving secondary conflicts in the setting while leaving other things starved of content.

 

They chose to prioritize the Genophage and Rannoch over the primary conflict and getting something like Leviathan in the base game.

 

I'm not sure those needed to be wrapped up and the Rannoch arc in particular felt rather forced.

[Han Shot First]

"Archangel" was not originally going to be Garrus.

 

Interesting. That's the first I've heard that.

 

Is there any information on who or what the original archangel might have been?

[The Arbiter]

Sure. Just go back in time and convince EA to give BW 2 more years of dev time for ME3

Ahhhh EA... f***tards

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Garrus & Tali ended up squadmates in every game mainly because after ME1 there were lots of people campaigning for Tali & Garrus to be made LIs in the second chapter. If not for them being made LIs in response to that feedback, I have a feeling that we would have had an entirely new squad in ME2 and Garrus & Tali would have got cameos like the rest of the ME1 squaddies.

 

I didn't have a problem with them returning in every chapter, particularly Garrus who is one of my favorites. But for those that do...blame their fans and Bioware making decisions based on fan service.

 

Considering that the fanservice is a huge part of Bioware's MO, I don't see any problem with this whatsoever.

 

It'd be one thing if they were awful characters, but Tali is easily one of the best-written ones in the series (that character development!), and Garrus is hybridized between being a fantastic wingman and battlefield LI, depending on how your Shepard treats him. They're both wonderful additions to the series. And like I said, I'm glad that there were a few teammates who were by Shepard's side in each game. Taking Team Dextro to Ilos/Citadel, fighting the Human Reaper with Team Dextro, and storming the Citadel Beam with Team Dextro feels good. If only this were possible with other characters, Liara especially. By no means am I a big Liara fan, but it was a copout not to put her in ME2 for the Suicide Mission.

 

 

Are you saying Garrus and Tali got/watched Shepard's back? 

 

 

They did in my game.

[Iakus]

Interesting. That's the first I've heard that.

 

Is there any information on who or what the original archangel might have been?

Bah, now I can't find the quote where I heard it.

 

Presumably, he would have been just some turian vigilante giving Aria and every other crime lord on Omega a pain in their collective @sses

[God]

Considering that the fanservice is a huge part of Bioware's MO, I don't see any problem with this whatsoever.

 

It'd be one thing if they were awful characters, but Tali is easily one of the best-written ones in the series (that character development!), and Garrus is hybridized between being a fantastic wingman and battlefield LI, depending on how your Shepard treats him. They're both wonderful additions to the series. And like I said, I'm glad that there were a few teammates who were by Shepard's side in each game. Taking Team Dextro to Ilos/Citadel, fighting the Human Reaper with Team Dextro, and storming the Citadel Beam with Team Dextro feels good. If only this were possible with other characters, Liara especially. By no means am I a big Liara fan, but it was a copout not to put her in ME2 for the Suicide Mission.

 

 

Yep. Majority rules, even if it's a mob like the Dextro lovers. That's exactly what I dislike about that philosophy. So yeah, I think if you aren't seeing a problem with this, then you have a problem.

 

They were awful characters.

 

Tali is what we call a waifu, a semi-submissive woman who worships the player and is meant to evoke a sentiment of power with them. 'Oh Shepard-kun, save my people and I will make loves to you! Aguuu!' She's the shy, virginal, and sweet character that is often desired by non-alpha males who generally fall under the 'nerd' stereotype, fitting it to a T.

 

Garrus is a yes-man who has no chance for real conflict at all over the story. He doesn't make a good wingman, he makes too much of a buddy-buddy dude bro. 

 

The Dextro's are some of the more overrated characters in the series. Along with Liara. And if the best justification for putting them on the team is 'because fans like them and they were there from the start', then maybe they should re-prioritize their narrative agenda with the story writing. Characters shouldn't have to be put on you just because people want them there. They should have a reason and a sense for having them there, Tali having none, and Garrus having a thin one at best.

[Kynare]

That's what I do. I plain just do not get the appeal of the Dextros. I mean, I understand it on an intellectual level, but I don't agree with it.

 

Then again, I'm rather too alpha for many of those people myself. I don't want to be a jerkass, but I've seen a lot of the people that like Tali and Garrus. Not everyone, but a lot of them are the otaku types who don't have much of an ability to be social. Again, I'm not saying this to be mean, but from what I've seen of many of the fans (I reiterate, many, not all) of Tali and Garrus is that they're the people who fit the traditional nerd stereotype.

 

I'm the rare type that's both social and anti-social. I hate people, but I love being around them and being in charge. Comes with the ENTJ/INTJ territory. And is one big reason I'm such a fan of Miranda. And it's why I think we get a bad rap. We have a tendency to be arrogant like no ones business. I won't lie, I do myself, personally and professionally (big shocker I know). And, in my defense, I can usually prove it.

 

Why do you think antisocial nerds like Tali and Garrus? I'm genuinely curious.

 

I like Garrus, though I practically ignored Tali. She didn't provide much in terms of content for me. As for why I like Garrus, I felt like he generally gelled nicely with my Shepard. Perhaps he seemed like a yes-man to you, but for my Paragon Shepard, he was always butting heads with her because he believed in "ruthless calculus" and she very respectfully disagreed, which offered different and interesting perspectives to her. I could sense that in their responses to each other, especially in ME1 and ME3.

 

They briefly acknowledge his tendency to be rather uncompromising in ME2 during his loyalty mission, and a Paragon Shepard will hold her tongue, but obviously disagree with what he was doing. (I let him take the shot. Without metagaming, it seemed like the most realistic course of action.)

 

I try to not play with my own beliefs and morals in mind, because I know there's absolutely no way I could sum up myself in a video game character. I play the game as I believe (Paragon) Shepard would and try to fill in the gaps where she's not really explained, like roleplaying. Even though I don't enjoy alcohol myself, I approve of Garrus' offers to drink Shepard under the table. Even though I've never been in a war, I enjoy their enlightening conversations about ruthless calculus and the costs of war. If that's something an antisocial nerd would do, then... yeah. Can't disagree with you there. 

[Jorji Costava]

I'm the rare type that's both social and anti-social. I hate people, but I love being around them and being in charge. Comes with the ENTJ/INTJ territory. And is one big reason I'm such a fan of Miranda. And it's why I think we get a bad rap. We have a tendency to be arrogant like no ones business. I won't lie, I do myself, personally and professionally (big shocker I know). And, in my defense, I can usually prove it.

 

So this is completely tangential, but I thought I'd mention that the validity of the Myers-Briggs personality test is very much contested ground in social psychology: It's been found that if you take the test twice as little as five weeks apart, you have about a 50% chance of getting a different classification. As I understand it, the Big Five model (Openness, Conscientiousness, Extroversion, Agreeableness, Neuroticism) has much more currency in modern psychological research.

[chidingewe8036]

for me personally the best thing about ME3 was finally being able to team up with one of my favorite characters Aria. I really wanted to romance her and add her to my squad but I was content with what I got lol.

[chidingewe8036]

oh and the cover system of course

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Personally, I hope fanservice to the loudest fans doesn't result in other quieter fans losing out on opportunities to interact in depth with their favorites in ME_{nextorwhatever.} I guess fanservice is all well and good until the ending of the game where apparently destroy as the fan favorite should be made canon, but it won't because of artistic integrity. I wish artistic integrity booted Garrus from the game as I personally would have rather any squaddie take his place in 1, 2, or 3. Whenever I hear talk about how the dextros are one of the best or most compellingly written (they are NOT, IMO), I think of this.

-snip-

Miranda, Thane, and Kelly are far more compelling, IMO.

Here's the thing about Tali as an Admiral, or leader of any kind:

1. She doesn't want to be a leader.
2. She's a terrible leader, and knows it.
3. Her people don't really care about points 1 and 2.

After ME1, Tali ends up getting conscripted by the Admiralty Board by virtue of being a folk heroine and gets all sorts of terrible assignments that she is unfit to do, and has to carry the burden of all of it "for her people." Which she feels obligated to do, but happily moves away from. She doesn't deserve or want the positions, and gets them mainly due to her symbolic importance and the fleet's nepotism. I think that's one of the BEST things about her. Those are very pronounced, very obvious flaws, and stay in play throughout the series.

The idea of Tali as a submissive who rarely/never challenges the player on anything is dead wrong. In ME2 and ME3, she will challenge Shepard on any pro-Geth decisions that come at the expense of the Quarians. This isn't like DAO with an approval system, so any substantial amount of challenges is well above the norm; the only teammates who may challenge Shepard more substantially are Jack and Wrex.

Garrus is really open to personal interpretation. He doesn't have incredible depth, but less is more. Some people really ARE wishy-washy although in my playthroughs, I offen agree with his original views, rather than trying to steer him about.

[God]

So this is completely tangential, but I thought I'd mention that the validity of the Myers-Briggs personality test is very much contested ground in social psychology: It's been found that if you take the test twice as little as five weeks apart, you have about a 50% chance of getting a different classification. As I understand it, the Big Five model (Openness, Conscientiousness, Extroversion, Agreeableness, Neuroticism) has much more currency in modern psychological research.

 

I know. It's just easier to reference. For me, I've taken a number of times for career orientation and business model classes. I have never gotten a classification that wasn't ENTJ or INTJ (which are largely compatible personality types, as they are.

 

As far as actual personality profiling, the FBI really only has the accurate one with the BRACE exam.