421 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

About Wrex...

 

I was referring to the Citadel DLC. He's basically king of Tuchanka, yet following you around as a henchman while you take down random mercs.

[DuskWanderer]

 

It has a lot of interpretations, TV Tropes has a summary.

 

As for Liara I do think she fits several of the definitions, except for the one that started it all. I don't hate or even dislike her as a character, I just think she's not a particularly well written one primarily due to the massive changes she undergoes each game and the awful start she gets in ME1. BioWare should have called her Liarb in ME2 and Liarc in ME3.

 

I've mentioned this before, but Liara fits many of the details of the Mary Sue, far more than Miranda. Miranda might be designed to be perfect, but she's extremely flawed and not loved by a majority of people unafraid to call her out on her crap. Even Shepard gets a number of those moments. Liara, by contrast, you cannot criticize. Once ME2 come around, you have to love her, she has to be your bestie (if not your lover), she shows up when she shouldn't and she has all these constantly ridiculous talents. 

 

She's not a well-written character, it's true. 

[KaiserShep]

IMO making her both a squadmate and Shadow Broker was a wrong decision. I mean, who in their sane mind will take one of their most important assets to missions where she can die. It's like getting Primarch Victus as a squadmate, except that you can't replace Shadow Broker as easily. 

I also think that she comes out as more competent Prothean expert on non-import runs. Eden Prime mission, in particular, makes you think that she is indeed an expert on Protheans. Of course, it all gets flushed down the toilet after Javik awakens and doesn't match any of her expectations.

 

I think the Shadow Broker's importance in the grand scheme of things is being a bit overplayed here. The network is collapsing as agents fall to reaper forces, and if the Shadow Broker were to die for any reason, finding a replacement would not be as much of a priority as finding a replacement to lead the turians, krogan or quarians, which would be exceedingly difficult as their civilizations are on the verge of annihilation.

 

It wouldn't be any surprise to me if the Broker network as we knew it was totally destroyed by the end of ME3, and as the galaxy bounces back, it takes many years if not decades to reestablish itself.

[Mordokai]

I think the writers had the right idea with making Liara seize control of the Shadow Broker network. The mistake was in not making it a bigger deal in ME3. I mean, why wouldn't she seize control of it?

 

There are hints that Liara is dedicating the entire SB network(or what's left of it, anyway) to the Crucible. It's nothing we see, but it makes sense when you think about it. Why bother with anything else at that point. I agree with you that they should have make it a bigger deal, since it does make her look a little incompetent(I have reasons to think she's not, but won't go into them), but on the other hand, if she brought everything to Shepard that matters... can you imagine the cries of outrage? More accusations of Mary Sueisness, more "she's been shoved in our faces" complaints... more everything that we already see.

 

Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.

[Obadiah]

If you knew what Liara knew, you'd be blue too.

[RanetheViking]

I thought she might've lost a part of the Shadow Broker network when she lost the ship, although she says she saves what's crucial.

 

As to being incompetent?? I mean between running her network and helping decode Prothy texts and such, as well as being a kick-ass squadmate, it sounds like she's a valuable asset to me. Besides if she'd had all the answers it would've made it a boring game and a lot of people would've bitched even more about that too I bet.

 

And as for the "Cerberus one-upping her all the time" even if she did have agents or sources inside Cerberus, once the Illusive Man began indoctrinating, or "integrating" his minions, they would've been useless or even turned back on her. Y'know the ol' double-triple cross type thing.  The two missions that you get, (Grissom Academy and Cerberus Scientists), from Traynor would've made more sense coming from the Shadow Broker. Actually EDI would've made more sense for the Grissom Accademy one. But I think they needed to give Traynor something to do.

[Barquiel]

I get why she did it, sure. It'd be a waste not to. It's only strange that it is Liara who is placed in that position to take control in the first place. Why Liara? Why specifically her? You don't think Miranda would be better suited for such a role? We could still replace the shadowbroker and the resources there.

She is a prothean expert. It makes sense that she'd play a big part in finding the crucible. Its everywhere that she falls short. Remember Eve? Working right under her nose the entire time. Sound familiar? Shadowbroker's agent in ME2 that was also working under her nose. How did we find her in the first game?
 
Though it doesn't look like her SB resources really had anything to do with finding the crucible. They were on the mars archive, our scientists just never found it because reasons.

Well, Miranda had her own traitor working under her nose (and finding her sister shouldn't be the main task of the Shadow Broker during a reaper invasion    )

I guess, ideally, Shepard would decide who becomes the Shadow Broker. Personally, I wouldn't trust "ME2 Miranda" enough to give her the job (how much of TIM's vision does she share?)...and Liara becoming the Shadow Broker after spending all this time hunting him is a satisfying completion of her character arc, at least in my opinion. As I mentioned before, my only problem with the SB thing is the execution in ME3. And I think you'd have the same problems with Miranda. The SB arc was basically doomed from the moment where the writers decided to introduce Traynor.

As for the crucible...we know the Shadow Broker had intelligence on the Protheans (that's why Liara starts searching for the blueprints). I think his data was simply more meaningful to Liara than the ex-SB, given her expertise in the field. This is also explained in Homeworlds 4. Liara gets info from a Prothean ruin on Kahje that leads her to Mars. The archives on Mars a huge and the alliance kept some parts of it secret from the council...I suppose it would have taken many more years for an alliance team to find the blueprints by chance (if at all) and even more to decrypt. Liara on the other hand knew what she was looking for and she had the encryption keys.
 

There are hints that Liara is dedicating the entire SB network(or what's left of it, anyway) to the Crucible. It's nothing we see, but it makes sense when you think about it. Why bother with anything else at that point. I agree with you that they should have make it a bigger deal, since it does make her look a little incompetent(I have reasons to think she's not, but won't go into them), but on the other hand, if she brought everything to Shepard that matters... can you imagine the cries of outrage? More accusations of Mary Sueisness, more "she's been shoved in our faces" complaints... more everything that we already see.
 
Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.

Indeed.

 

I know most of the development happens off screen/in the background, like discovering the blueprints, sending shiploads of resources to the Crucible or rescuing asari refugees on Thessia. I also don't feel the need to know about every single thing that Liara does in order to believe that she is working...but a bit more information would have been nice

As for Mary Sues, these days I don't even take the accusation seriously. The term has been thrown around so much it has lost all meaning .

[themikefest]

 

I know most of the development happens off screen/in the background, like discovering the blueprints, sending shiploads of resources to the Crucible or rescuing asari refugees on Thessia. I also don't feel the need to know about every single thing that Liara does in order to believe that she is working...but a bit more information would have been nice

 .

She never discovered any blueprints.

 

What shiploads of resources did she send to the crucible?

[RanetheViking]

She never discovered any blueprints.

 

What shiploads of resources did she send to the crucible?

1) Really? How did Hackett get the plans for the Crucible then?

 

2) Didn't you ever read any emails on Liara's terminal?

[themikefest]

1) Really? How did Hackett get the plans for the Crucible then?

 

2) Didn't you ever read any emails on Liara's terminal?

He got them after the Mars mission

 

Yes I did read them. I don't remember reading shiploads been sent to the crucible

[RanetheViking]

Meth is a helluva drug.

 

 

Just sayin'.

[themikefest]

I wouldn't know since I don't touch the crap

 

 

Just sayin'.

[Han Shot First]

The Shadow Broker network obtaining resources for the Crucible is mentioned in one of those emails you access on Liara's terminal. It is also in the description of Shadow Broker support team war asset. Hackett makes passing mention to Liara helping with the Crucible project as well, but I can't remember the context. He might have been referring to the plans rather than the logistical support.

 

As for the Crucible plans, Liara is the reason the Alliance was looking for the them on Mars at all. She uncovers a reference to it at Prothean ruins on Khaje & passes the information on to Hackett. It's why Hackett has her on the research team at Mars.

 

Here is the war asset description:

 

 

 

The Shadow Broker's strength lies in her connections. Dr. Liara T'Soni has a team of operatives able to procure almost any supplies at any time, by using an extensive network of bribes, blackmail, and favors. This logistical support has become important to building the Crucible, as the disruption of communications and travel makes gathering resources risky at the best of times.

 

Liara's also deploying assassins to take out Cerberus and Reaper targets according to the Wet Squad description:

 

 

 

As the new Shadow Broker, Liara T'Soni has the loyalty of her predecessor's assassination squad, a small but lethal team of soldiers called on for the rare occasion when information isn't enough to silence a target. Their methods vary with each mission: from subtle poisonings to bombing entire buildings, the wet squad is dedicated to whatever range of destruction the new Broker requires. Dr. T'Soni has put them to work against the Reapers and Cerberus.

 

Lorewise she's supposed to be fairly active in using the Shadow Broker network to contribute to the war effort, it's just that the game presents info relating to that as background information rather than as something central to a mission Shepard is on. Instead that info comes through war asset descriptions, emails, and a line of dialogue here or there.

[Valmar]

I've mentioned this before, but Liara fits many of the details of the Mary Sue, far more than Miranda. Miranda might be designed to be perfect, but she's extremely flawed and not loved by a majority of people unafraid to call her out on her crap. Even Shepard gets a number of those moments. Liara, by contrast, you cannot criticize. Once ME2 come around, you have to love her, she has to be your bestie (if not your lover), she shows up when she shouldn't and she has all these constantly ridiculous talents. 

 

She's not a well-written character, it's true. 

 

Does she? She's not perfect, she makes a lot of mistakes. She isn't extra loved by everyone, either. She's a bit of recluse really. She's friendlier than Miranda but she's mostly distant, with Shepard being the only one she really seems to actually have a real bond with.

 

Miranda... extremely flawed. Hm. Did we play the same game? She was perfect. Not being able to have kids and having daddy issues isn't really enough to call someone 'extremely flawed', imo.

 

Also, I didn't love Liara nor was I her bestie. Though I was mostly renegade.  You don't have to be all touchy-feely.

 

Ridiculous talents... Liara? Or Miranda? We're still on about Liara, right? Okay, then. If you say so. Clearly we played two completely different games or something. Your Liara sounds a lot more OP than mine. Your Miranda also sounds a lot more grounded and realistic. Interesting indeed.

 

 

And as for the "Cerberus one-upping her all the time" even if she did have agents or sources inside Cerberus, once the Illusive Man began indoctrinating, or "integrating" his minions, they would've been useless or even turned back on her. Y'know the ol' double-triple cross type thing. 

 

Sure. That doesn't change the fact she had Cerberus bugs in her base of operations and a Cerberus AI working beside her on Mars. It seems to me that the only reason she managed to stay playing Shadowbroker as long as she did was because Cerberus allowed it. Cerberus aren't renown for their competence yet TIM was always one-step ahead of her. Her ramming her ship into them is the closest thing she's done to not being walked over by them, really.

 

When she was the SB the Illusive Man had bugs in her base, cameras and listening devices. He got to the archives on Kahje first. He had a spy working on her team on Mars - not even a very good one if she was making others suspicious according to the logs. He even nabbed the beacon on Thessia which apparently was discovered by the information retrieved from Mars that Liara missed. A fairly embarrassing moment, imo, considering Liara is the prothean expert.

 

If it wasn't for the fact that Cerberus fail at almost everything they do it wouldn't stand out so much to me. Yet they kinda do. Cerberus are not very competent. Yet they're constantly walking over Liara who is supposed to be the shadow broker.

 

 

Well, Miranda had her own traitor working under her nose (and finding her sister shouldn't be the main task of the Shadow Broker during a reaper invasion    )

 

That's a different situation. Wilson, far as we know, only turned traitor near the end. He was frustrated at the lack of cash in his pocket. So he turned on them. Miranda, being perfect and never wrong, shot him dead the moment she saw him because she pieced it together. She's never wrong.

 

The spies on Liara were both sent there specifically for the purpose of being spies, they didn't just turn on her at the last moment. They were always spies. In the case of Eve, a very suspicious one if you are to believe the data logs. Also, Miranda finding her sister shouldn't be the main task during a reaper invasion, period. It doesn't matter if she's SB or not, the way they shoehorned in that story arc with her sistah and faddah was pretty lame, imo. I'm not even a fan of Miranda and I felt like they wasted a lot of potential for her in the story of ME3.

 

 

 

I guess, ideally, Shepard would decide who becomes the Shadow Broker. Personally, I wouldn't trust "ME2 Miranda" enough to give her the job (how much of TIM's vision does she share?)...and Liara becoming the Shadow Broker after spending all this time hunting him is a satisfying completion of her character arc, at least in my opinion. As I mentioned before, my only problem with the SB thing is the execution in ME3. And I think you'd have the same problems with Miranda. The SB arc was basically doomed from the moment where the writers decided to introduce Traynor.

 

Her spending so much time hunting him down was as much a problem as her actually becoming the Shadow Broker, imo.

 

 

 

As for the crucible...we know the Shadow Broker had intelligence on the Protheans (that's why Liara starts searching for the blueprints). I think his data was simply more meaningful to Liara than the ex-SB, given her expertise in the field. This is also explained in Homeworlds 4. Liara gets info from a Prothean ruin on Kahje that leads her to Mars. The archives on Mars a huge and the alliance kept some parts of it secret from the council...I suppose it would have taken many more years for an alliance team to find the blueprints by chance (if at all) and even more to decrypt. Liara on the other hand knew what she was looking for and she had the encryption keys.

 

Her being SB still seemed to be rather insignificant to the whole matter.

 

The information she gathered was nothing special or something only the SB could get. She went to the prothean artifact on Thessia, that she used to go to a lot as a child apparently, and was then told to go to the hanar homeworld (le gasp, big shock! She didn't think of that herself?) and while there she bribed some hanar to get access to stuff which lead her to Mars. None of that really required the shadow broker's resources. If anything, the comic puts the SB's resources in a pale light in terms of being useful against the reaper threat.

As for knowing what she was looking for.... ehhh... She wasn't even sure what the blueprint was. She was just poking around seemingly at random hoping to find something labeled 'weapon'. Don't get me wrong, she is a prothean expert but I'm not sure I'd say she actually have a clear objective of what she was looking for outside a general sense, no more than any other researcher there. Perhaps a better way to put it is to say she knew what she was looking at, rather than what she was looking for. Though this is probably just arguing semantics. Lol.

 

 

She never discovered any blueprints.

 

What shiploads of resources did she send to the crucible?

 

Mass Effect Wiki:

"Through the process of elimination mixed with a little desperation, Liara discovered the existence of a blueprint for a Prothean device that could theoretically destroy the Reapers at the Mars Archives."

 

"I was calling every supply depot stationed around the Crucible to find enough pure platinum for the Crucible's primary trigger inlay. We barely had enough left to coat a coffeemaker.

An hour later, a ship pulled up with sixteen tons of platinum "courtesy of the Shadow Broker." Then it flew away to scavenge more materials for the project. The ship's captain emailed me after, saying the Broker "would stay in touch with our needs."

That's great, but I'm checking my computer for bugs."

 

 

"The Shadow Broker's strength lies in her connections. Dr. Liara T'Soni has a team of operatives able to procure almost any supplies at any time, by using an extensive network of bribes, blackmail, and favors. This logistical support has become important to building the Crucible, as the disruption of communications and travel makes gathering resources risky at the best of times."

 

"The Alliance won't be able to rely on it as a source of Crucible materials for long if things get worse." (implying they rely on them currently in the course of the game)

[themikefest]

She never found any plans. 

 

She says "I discovered plans for a device that could wipeout the reapers. They're in the archives". Hackett gave her access to the archives, why didn't she forward the plans to him right away? Because its hard to do that when you haven't been to the archives to verify that there is indeed plans that can stop the reapers.

 

A moment later she says "I think I found what we need". Make up your mind Liara. Did you find something or not?

 

A couple minutes later, she says she found bits and pieces, clues really. So now she only found clues, but actually hasn't see anything that proves there are plans in the archives. She just got her hopes up without actually seeing these plans

 

In the Archives, evabot is seen downloading the plans. So I guess the evabot found the plans

[Daemul]

The location of the Thessia beacon and the information that it contains being in the Mars archive data and somehow being missed annoyed the hell out of me. I can't remember, but who the hell was meant to be going through that data? They clearly weren't doing their job properly. That's the sort of **** up that would get you sacked from a workplace. Complete and utter incompetence.

[DuskWanderer]

Does she? She's not perfect, she makes a lot of mistakes. She isn't extra loved by everyone, either. She's a bit of recluse really. She's friendlier than Miranda but she's mostly distant, with Shepard being the only one she really seems to actually have a real bond with.

 

Miranda... extremely flawed. Hm. Did we play the same game? She was perfect. Not being able to have kids and having daddy issues isn't really enough to call someone 'extremely flawed', imo.

 

Also, I didn't love Liara nor was I her bestie. Though I was mostly renegade.  You don't have to be all touchy-feely.

 

Ridiculous talents... Liara? Or Miranda? We're still on about Liara, right? Okay, then. If you say so. Clearly we played two completely different games or something. Your Liara sounds a lot more OP than mine. Your Miranda also sounds a lot more grounded and realistic. Interesting indeed.

 

 

When Liara makes mistakes, no one calls her out on it. In contrast to Miranda, whom plenty of people disparage (Jack being the principal one), no one disparages Liara, except for Javik, and you have to criticize him about it if you go to see that scene. Everyone else talks about how great Liara is: Garrus does, Kaidan does, Joker does, EDI does, Ashley doesn't, but she doesn't say anything negative (and doesn't say much of anything), and the list goes on. 

 

Miranda was not perfect, she makes mistakes, bad decisions, and Jack and others aren't afraid to call her out on it. 

 

I'm not talking about playing Paragon or Renegade. If you play the game, you will always give Liara a hug in ME2. In the first game, you could grab her second to last, call her a potential spy, threaten to throw her into a volcano, and ignore her the rest of the time. 2nd game, you're giving her hugs, you're concerned about her when a building blows up she might be in, you constantly have to talk to her. You can't tell her to go away when she's inviting herself to a private cabin, you can't yell at her for prodding into Shepard's personal affairs, and more. It's as if, during the 2nd and 3rd games, the devs couldn't comprehend we wouldn't want this waifu around. 

[Han Shot First]

Regaring Liara becoming the Shadow Broker...

 

I think it makes perfect sense considering she's been an information broker for two years. She's in the same line of work already as the Shadow Broker, and in that capacity was sort of a big deal on Illium.

 

I think the bigger issue is that the transition from mild-mannered academic & scientist to hardened spy and information trader, occurs between games. It happens entirely off screen and without explanation or development. That gives the player the impression that the change is sudden, even though for the character it is not (2 years have passed). The change itself however is fine. There are plenty of equally drastic shifts in character arcs in fiction. The series Breaking Bad is a great example of that, with Walter White transitioning from high school chemistry teacher to mass-murdering drug kingpin. The difference is that with Water White you see that development play out over the course of several years & seasons, and suspension of disbelief isn't lost because you've seen that character evolve gradually.

 

With Mass Effect something like that would be much harder to pull off, because it is a video game and not a television series. And with Liara you're only getting a relatively small cameo. There just wouldn't be enough time or dialogue to sell that shift properly. On that note I think the how & why Liara put the nuts and bolts of an information trading network together would have been a better focus than one of those many Cerberus novels.

 

 

She never found any plans. 

 

 

Liara comes across information on the Crucible plans in Prothean ruins on Khaje, and that information points her towards Mars. She then forwards the information to Hackett and requests access to the Mars archive. So whether or not she's actually the person who discovered the plans on Mars, she's ultimately responsible for them being found. She's the reason why the Alliance was looking for plans to a superweapon on Mars.

[themikefest]

 

I

 

Liara comes across information on the Crucible plans in Prothean ruins on Khaje, and that information points her towards Mars. She then forwards the information to Hackett and requests access to the Mars archive. So whether or not she's actually the person who discovered the plans on Mars, she's ultimately responsible for them being found. She's the reason why the Alliance was looking for plans to a superweapon on Mars.

It may point her to Mars, but doesn't actually know if there are plans on Mars or not. She made no effort to go to the archives even after Hackett gave her access to verify if there really are plans. So, no, she never found any plans at all.

 

Also give credit to the shadow broker for having that information that she found that led her to Khaje. Without that information, she would've found nothing. Of course had she not wasted 2 years doing stupid crap, she may of found these plans on Mars earlier if the ME1 characters made any effort to find a way to stop the reapers. Anderson and Hackett could give her access on Mars at that time.

[themikefest]

Regaring Liara becoming the Shadow Broker...

 

I think it makes perfect sense considering she's been an information broker for two years. She's in the same line of work already as the Shadow Broker, and in that capacity was sort of a big deal on Illium.

 

I think the bigger issue is that the transition from mild-mannered academic & scientist to hardened spy and information trader, occurs between games. It happens entirely off screen and without explanation or development. That gives the player the impression that the change is sudden, even though for the character it is not (2 years have passed). The change itself however is fine. There are plenty of equally drastic shifts in character arcs in fiction. The series Breaking Bad is a great example of that, with Walter White transitioning from high school chemistry teacher to mass-murdering drug kingpin. The difference is that with Water White you see that development play out over the course of several years & seasons, and suspension of disbelief isn't lost because you've seen that character evolve gradually.

 

With Mass Effect something like that would be much harder to pull off, because it is a video game and not a television series. And with Liara you're only getting a relatively small cameo. There just wouldn't be enough time or dialogue to sell that shift properly. On that note I think the how & why Liara put the nuts and bolts of an information trading network together would have been a better focus than one of those many Cerberus novels.

 

 

Thoughout ME1 she keeps telling everyone how she has spent half her life studying the Protheans, but for some reason decided she wants to be an information broker. Yeah right. It doesn't fit her character. For some reason being an information broker was more importanat than finding a way to stop the reapers. 

 

The other thing is not making her the shadow broker and having Cererus be the ones that recover Shepard's body, it would get rid of the the pathetic excuse Liara gives about handing the body to Cerberus without telling anyone, especially Shepard's mother, for those who play as a spacer. It would avoid having seen the armor in her apartment being on display like some kind of trophy which the player can't ask her why she has it. It avoids that stupid comment about her finally helping to find a way to stop the reapers. Again why didn't she do that 2 years ago.

 

It avoids that terrible scene with Shepard protecting Liara vs a possible LI that gets injured when the broker throws its desk. It avoids the pathetic story she gives about how she got the dogtags. I guess Shepard's mother wasn't important enough to have those dogtags. Lastly it avoids that comment about her saying I have you.

[TotalWurzel]

Okay coming to this thread late, so apologies.

 

Where to start? Well firstly the OP has criticised the writers for their favourites, well isn't that the point?  After all the first advice given to every aspiring writer is to "write the stories and characters that interest you", I mean how often are writers criticised for hackeneyed characters and story pandering to the lowest common denominator?  If you want to criticise writers for writing from the heart, no matter how much you don't like it, may I suggest writing your own story.

 

As for Liara being rammed down our throats, superficially you are right; but in the first instance in any narrative especially gaming there is always a NPC that is present throughout to drive the story forward; but you should look at how the characters are presented.

 

In the first instance, for ME1 the only friendly NPC in the ME1 splash screen is Ashley, in all the pre-release material for ME3 notice how the barbified Ashley is present and no Kaiden, Liara, Garrus or Tali?  Kinda gives you the impression that the canon VS is Ahsley, and if you're cynical, she's also the canon LI for BroShep.

 

Also to the OP, notice how it's Miranda and Thane on the cover of ME2 and no single character from ME1?  Kinda slaps your favourtism to ME1 argument into the dirt.  Bear in mind how characters are presented before you play a game indicates their canon importance.  Okay if you want to be cynical you could say it's just marketing, but it's marketed that way for a reason.

 

Then there's the in game presentation.  Who in the 3 games is the character that is presented in the most sexualized way?  **** it, the must slutified way.  Yep, Miranda.  The last time I saw that many arse shots was the last time I read a tabloid newspaper.  And before you say anything, if the arse shot was once, to emphasise Miranda's comments about her genetic perfection, fine, but every possible opportunity?  Kinda feels like Miranda is being forced upon us as a LI, and her potential as a real character diminished; her "daddy issues" are often ridiculed, but if you play the LotSB DLC and read the intel you see a real insecurity and longing there which could have had real potential as a character.

 

If you want to see how little the devs thought of Liara may I suggest replaying ME1, rescue Liara then take her to Feros, and oh how much extra dialogue she has when Shiala talks about Benezia, about the same as the number of international football trophies we English have wone since 1966!  Yep **** all.

 

At the end of the day, OP, your argument leaves me feeling the same way as posters on the Games of Thrones FB page about who Martin's killed off in his never gonna be finished series of books; ok will admit I am still irked that Bioware killed off Mordin but I don't consider it favouritism, just accept the wiriters' choice (notice plural for writer); oh and yeah am still seething at the killing off of Ivanova's true love before you start Oops going OT, best go hide....

[TotalWurzel]

Thoughout ME1 she keeps telling everyone how she has spent half her life studying the Protheans, but for some reason decided she wants to be an information broker. Yeah right. It doesn't fit her character. For some reason being an information broker was more importanat than finding a way to stop the reapers. 

 

The other thing is not making her the shadow broker and having Cererus be the ones that recover Shepard's body, it would get rid of the the pathetic excuse Liara gives about handing the body to Cerberus without telling anyone, especially Shepard's mother, for those who play as a spacer. It would avoid having seen the armor in her apartment being on display like some kind of trophy which the player can't ask her why she has it. It avoids that stupid comment about her finally helping to find a way to stop the reapers. Again why didn't she do that 2 years ago.

 

It avoids that terrible scene with Shepard protecting Liara vs a possible LI that gets injured when the broker throws its desk. It avoids the pathetic story she gives about how she got the dogtags. I guess Shepard's mother wasn't important enough to have those dogtags. Lastly it avoids that comment about her saying I have you.

 

 

Agree with you in principle with you on this (the whole of ME2's plot seems a cluster **** of universal proportions), but one question....Am I the only one, given the timescales and their utter incompetence, that finds Cerberus as plausible as oh I dunno a NFL franchise in Machynlleth?

[RanetheViking]

Thoughout ME1 she keeps telling everyone how she has spent half her life studying the Protheans, but for some reason decided she wants to be an information broker. Yeah right. It doesn't fit her character. For some reason being an information broker was more importanat than finding a way to stop the reapers.

 

The other thing is not making her the shadow broker and having Cererus be the ones that recover Shepard's body, it would get rid of the the pathetic excuse Liara gives about handing the body to Cerberus without telling anyone, especially Shepard's mother, for those who play as a spacer. It would avoid having seen the armor in her apartment being on display like some kind of trophy which the player can't ask her why she has it. It avoids that stupid comment about her finally helping to find a way to stop the reapers. Again why didn't she do that 2 years ago.

 

It avoids that terrible scene with Shepard protecting Liara vs a possible LI that gets injured when the broker throws its desk. It avoids the pathetic story she gives about how she got the dogtags. I guess Shepard's mother wasn't important enough to have those dogtags. Lastly it avoids that comment about her saying I have you.

On the first part, - it could be that seeing the vision of the Beacon, through melding with Shep (whether she's his L.I or not) she knows what's coming just as Shep does. And therefore to plan for that, she might use all the inheritance from Benezia (who must've been worth a bob or two) to build up an info and intelligence network that might come in handy during a war.  And just because she doesn't come with you in ME2 doesn't mean she's forgotten about the Reapers.

 

I've heard people say "she's just a scientist there's no way she could become the Shadow Broker".

 

She was an archaeologist, but that doesn't mean she spent all her time digging in the dirt, so to speak. A lot of scientists do research, searching through mountains of data etc. She even said that herself "she spent 50 years tracking down every shred and speck of info". Sounds like good training for searching through information and sifting through intelligence reports to me, especially given her almost pedantic like nature. (and I mean that in a good way)

 

All that said, I agree with Han, the dramatic change in her character was a surprise at first, but when you think about it a lot can happen in two years and Liara losing her mother then her bondmate as well could change anyone. And it's all done between games.

 

Lastly, -  for the rest of your post I'm not going to bother, because it's just the same vitriol you constantly spew out at the mention of this character's name and the Asari in general. (issues there I reckon) Not to mention EDI, Legion, Andersen, Garrus, Joker .. and on and on.

 

Anyway I'm out. 

[Daemul]

Yo people, Liara isn't real, stop arguing over her.

[ImaginaryMatter]

On the first part, - it could be that seeing the vision of the Beacon, through melding with Shep (whether she's his L.I or not) she knows what's coming just as Shep does. And therefore to plan for that, she might use all the inheritance from Benezia (who must've been worth a bob or two) to build up an info and intelligence network that might come in handy during a war.  And just because she doesn't come with you in ME2 doesn't mean she's forgotten about the Reapers.

 

I've heard people say "she's just a scientist there's no way she could become the Shadow Broker".

 

She was an archaeologist, but that doesn't mean she spent all her time digging in the dirt, so to speak. A lot of scientists do research, searching through mountains of data etc. She even said that herself "she spent 50 years tracking down every shred and speck of info". Sounds like good training for searching through information and sifting through intelligence reports to me, especially given her almost pedantic like nature. (and I mean that in a good way)

 

All that said, I agree with Han, the dramatic change in her character was a surprise at first, but when you think about it a lot can happen in two years and Liara losing her mother then her bondmate as well could change anyone. And it's all done between games.

 

The idea that the change could happen isn't the problem, it's that she changes with no explanation. Brokering is more than dealing with data. It's dealing with people, threatening people, making them keep quiet, judging who can be trusted or how to insure their loyalty. Liara doesn't have those qualities in ME1. Sure, she's intelligent but intelligence isn't even half a buy in for this kind of work.

 

Again the game can't even be half-arsed to lazily hand wave this. Liara's mother really isn't an explanation. ME1 already settles that she's fine with Benezia's demise and Liara's change happens regardless of whether or not she romances Shepard (or even how long or how well he treated her). The MEU does operate under the logic that Shepard is needed for everyone to live but that itself is pretty weak, so I don't think it's a good defense. This isn't a Liara only problem -- as the entire second game does this kind of thing with almost everyone -- but these changes really aren't justifiable, her's just happens to be the most extreme. A game only perspective leaves the impression that her change was merely a half-baked way to keep her relevant and make her more badass.

 

Yo people, Liara isn't real, stop arguing over her.

 

No. I must tear her down until my waifu reigns supreme.