421 réponses à ce sujet

[Mordokai]

Samantha's is better

 

Not on regular asari's lifetime Well, unless you like seeing bathing in underwear... then an argument can be made.

 

Oh shucks, there I go with the bias again

[von uber]

Not on regular asari's lifetime Well, unless you like seeing bathing in underwear... then an argument can be made.

 

Oh shucks, there I go with the bias again

 

Across the trilogy Liara's is better (obviously). In ME3 Sam's is (as long as you mod away the underwear ).

[Vazgen]

People need to remember that on non-import runs Liara gets as much romance-related content as, say, Ashley. That is, content after being locked into romance with her (second Presidium date). Everything else is non-romance content.

Personally I have a little problem with amount of screen time Liara gets. Not the time capsule scene though, which is clearly unique to her character and was very nicely done IMO. My problem is with content that is not unique to her character and somewhat unnecessary, like her coming to Shepard's quarters to tell about Salarian councilor's call. That could've been done via intercom. Another one is Ardat-Yakshi monastery mission. Asari councilor could've contacted Shepard without intermediaries. 

Also, the way male Shepard greets Liara on Mars is right next to STEEEEVE!! in my book. Voice acting in romance version is actually more fitting to a non-romance one IMO.

[SNascimento]

The Asari are inherently slutty. Stuff like that cannot be avoided. 

[von uber]

The Asari are inherently slutty. Stuff like that cannot be avoided. 

 

I'm no psychologist, but...

[God]

To avoid mass quote, I agree with your points to an extent - and certainly that for Femshep she is the best option. Which says more about the attitude to Femsheps LI's than anything else.

The thing about Liara is this - as an import playthrough (due to her neglect in ME2, she is the ONLY character guaranteed to be alive. hence from a developmental point of view it makes sense for scenes to be done with her.

Where i think the problem lies, is that were not three slightly varying versions:

1) as a LI

2) as a friend

3) as a new start / themikefest playthrough where she is largely ignored.

 

Well, I can agree with this. As I said, there was no variation in the way the interactions with Liara took place. 

 

Consider me somewhere in between the 2 and 3 category.

[Barquiel]

My problem is with content that is not unique to her character and somewhat unnecessary, like her coming to Shepard's quarters to tell about Salarian councilor's call. That could've been done via intercom.

I think the point of that scene was to give Shepard a chance to talk about Virmire/the character you sacrificed...not the fact that the salarian councilor wants to talk. And the writers used Liara because she is the only ME1 squadmate guaranteed to be alive in ME3.

But I didn't really like that scene either. I always found it a bit weird that my Shepard could only talk about Ashley/Kaidan. I mean, I've just watched how the very model of a scientist Salarian heroically sacrificed himself to save the Krogan (or doomed the krogan race)...and all Shepard can think of is Kaidan or Ashley (who died two years ago).

[themikefest]

Its interesting that Liara would comment about that if she has never met Kaidan or Ashley depending on the playthrough

[Vazgen]

I think the point of that scene was to give Shepard a chance to talk about Virmire/the character you sacrificed...not the fact that the salarian councilor wants to talk. And the writers used Liara because she is the only ME1 squadmate guaranteed to be alive in ME3.

But I didn't really like that scene either. I always found it a bit weird that my Shepard could only talk about Ashley/Kaidan. I mean, I've just watched how the very model of a scientist Salarian heroically sacrificed himself to save the Krogan (or doomed the krogan race)...and all Shepard can think of is Kaidan or Ashley (who died two years ago).

The scene is not about VS only. VS is the default choice if player's romance did not die on Suicide Mission. In the latter case Shepard remembers them. Here is a video for Jack, others are linked in the description

[SNascimento]

I'm no psychologist, but...

"Don't you dare judge me!"

Also, but what?

[wright1978]

Yep wasn't at all happy at the treatment of the me2 cast on the whole. Personally felt there were big missed opportunities with many of their stories and too often either their death was forced or that path felt the only one that received any attention.


Equally agree about the sense of Liara feeling forced upon the player. There was no need for it to happen that way but it was part of the wider way they forced the dream sequences on the player, forced their vision of Shep as a character over the player's for sections of the game.

[wolfhowwl]

If they can die in ME2 any plot in ME3 must be able to function without them limiting their role.

 

If they're dead alternate content must be created for players.

 

With ME3's development time and budget, well, choices were made about where the resources would go.

[Vazgen]

 lol that doesn't excuse anything

they should have planned ahead

 

also ME3 already functions if Garrus died in ME2

he makes the game a lot more awesome sure but without him the game is still playable and there is no replacement

 

players just miss a lot of good content, they could have gone that route with all the "less" important ME2 squadmates

just give fans of the ME2 squad the option to recruit them if they survived the Suicide Mission

 

and for those who let them die there would be no alternative squadmate

maybe Miranda needed a replacement (like Mordin did with Padok Wiks) because if they actually used her in the cerberus storyline I imagine she would be important

Miranda has a replacement - Oriana. If she dies on Suicide Mission, Oriana takes her place at the Sanctuary

[themikefest]

Miranda has a replacement - Oriana. If she dies on Suicide Mission, Oriana takes her place at the Sanctuary

Its also the only way Henry Lawson stays alive depending on the dialogue picked

[von uber]

But she isn't important, and couldn't be if she could be dead.

Edit: and thinking about it, if you ignore dlc and recruit liara last in me1, miranda and liara's content probably isn't that uneven.

Most of the complaints about liara stem (ironically) from the fact she was pretty much ignored in me2 and so missed the excellent decision of having the suicide mission in the middle game.
So we end up in a situation where you have to have a character alive to do the linkage pieces and still have a tie to the previous games.

But yes, miranda's role in me3 was a waste.

[von uber]

like Mordin, Legion and Tali?
of course she could be important

The genophage plays out the same regardless.
Legion and tali are only important if you want peace (along with a bit of meta gaming). Otherwise they have no impact on rannoch.

[wolfhowwl]

 lol that doesn't excuse anything

they should have planned ahead

 

also ME3 already functions if Garrus died in ME2

he makes the game a lot more awesome sure but without him the game is still playable and there is no replacement

 

players just miss a lot of good content, they could have gone that route with all the "less" important ME2 squadmates

just give fans of the ME2 squad the option to recruit them if they survived the Suicide Mission

 

and for those who let them die there would be no alternative squadmate

maybe Miranda needed a replacement (like Mordin did with Padok Wiks) because if they actually used her in the cerberus storyline I imagine she would be important

 

We're not talking about excuses, the OP was asking for the reason. Yes, they should have planned better but would've, could've, and should'ves became irrelevant when they released ME2 in January 2010 and locked themselves in. BioWare may have dealt themselves that hand but they still had to play with it for ME3.

 

Having Garrus return is an easy decision because he is the most popular character and survived 85% of ME2 games (I also think BioWare themselves found him to be a fun character and he fills a typical niche in their games as well). Of course ME3 functions fine without him, he has no connection to any plots in ME3 other than as a confidant at the end of the genophage arc.

 

Having a character as a squadmate means spending resources writing, editing, voicing, and setting up mission banter and Normandy conversations with Shepard and other party members (ex. Liara and Garrus talking in the lounge). 

 

Since it is safe to assume that BioWare fully used their budget for this game, where should the money for bringing back the missing EIGHT ME2 party members come from? What should be cut?

 

One of the criticisms of ME2 was that the characters were cardboard cutouts and just stayed in their rooms. In response BW had them interacting in ME3. Is meeting this design goal on a limited budget possible when you bloat out the party to 10+ people many of whom may not even be in the game? Is it justifiable to create a conversation between say Ashley and Jack when neither character may be present in a game instead of spending that on content you know that far more players will see?

[themikefest]

The edi bot and James could be filled by Jack and Miranda since both are love interest and it would give them the opportunity to hold the nameplate in the memorial scene. Yes both can be dead. So can Tali and Garrus be dead, but yet both are squadmates if alive. Its also interesting they made Wrex a squadmate, if alive, in the Citadel dlc and not have any of the ME2 squadmates on the squad