421 réponses à ce sujet

[God]

I think they could have gone with more of an investment for certain ME2 characters, as well as assuming that most characters were alive from ME2. Most people that I'm aware of tended to save everyone they could.

 

But then again, new players... seems more like an excuse now than a justification.

 

Back on the investment of certain characters, they did this to an extent: Mordin, Thane, Legion, and Miranda are the ME2 characters that had the most bearing on the plot.

 

Miranda I think was particularly deserving of more content given the sheer difficulty it is to kill her on the SM. You basically have to go into the SM with the intent to kill her to have her die on it. And it seemed to me that Miranda's purpose in the series was to end up dead by BW given the criteria you have to meet to have her live. They viewed her as a 'tragic' figure after all.

[wright1978]

especially Miranda's "role" (rehash of Loyalty mission) is just a big wasted opportunity considering Cerberus is almost more important than the freaking Reapers in ME3

 

Agree completely. Think they went for the awful rehash as they thought Oriana scenario as it allowed them to sacrifice her as emotional canon fodder for new players.

I'm still extremely annoyed the notion of her leading 'Cerberus renegades' was just a shadowbroker intel throwaway, rather than being fully developed, given the direction they decided to go with Cerberus in ME3.

 

Equally i would have adored the turn about notion of her being the outcast on the Normandy, as Jack was in ME2. The Normandy is crew is very lacking in ME3 imo and lacked the presence of someone critical of the Alliance.

[Han Shot First]

 

 

1. That could be seen as a stretch if you like (like a massively disturbed criminal becoming a teacher..). 

 

I just realized while reading this that Jack has Walter White's character arc, but played in reverse. Or even Liara's arc played in reverse, if you want to consider the whole information broker / Shadow Broker thing as criminal.

 

Unlike Walter White however she gets very little character development. She just suddenly becomes a responsible upstanding citizen between games, with no explanation, not unlike Liara's undeveloped shift from archaeologist to information broker.

 

Part of that is the limitations of the medium. It's more difficult to properly develop characters in a video game than it is in a television series. Still, I wish the comics or novels at least had been more focused on filling in those missing backstories. Instead we got Mass Effect: Now With More Cerberus Issue #47.

[Daemul]

I remember there being a massive poll done on BSN years ago, where people voted for their favourite characters. Ashley, Kaidan, Garrus, Miranda, Legion, Tali, Liara, Mordin, Thane and Wrex were the top 10, and funnily enough, those exact 10 had the biggest roles in ME3. 

 

Coincidence? Up to you to decide. 

[grey_wind]

There is some small consolation in the fact that the ME2 cast's shafting is most likely a product of time constraints.

 

In many of his early interviews, Hudson rather enthusiastically talked about ME3 having a "rotating" squad, where characters would join and leave your team at different points throughout the story. This would also explain why the game is so linear, as it would allow for these characters to team up with you at separate times rather than all at once.

 

For example, the Genophage arc would have (probably) involved Garrus, Wrex, Mordin and Grunt temporarily coming on to the squad and then leaving once things were resolved on Tuchanka. The same would apply to Legion and Tali for Rannoch. Kasumi and Thane were apparently supposed to help you out with a mission (or more) on the Citadel like the coup; Samara would have been with you for the Asari levels; Jack, Jacob, Miranda and the VS would have all probably teamed up with you when the story focused on Cerberus. In this scenario, James, EDI and Liara would have likely been your core "perma" squad.

 

The only squadmate I don't think was ever intended to return was Zaeed, and that's because early drafts had set him up for a boss fight, where he'd be contracted by Cerberus and fight you on Omega.

[Vazgen]

Thane and Miranda getting big roles in ME3?
lol

 

agree about the others especially about annoying in-my-face Liara

Miranda has more screen time than, say, Jack. 

Thane too, if messages are considered screen time.

[God]

Miranda had a role that was notionally supposed to be a substantial, important part. She's the only ME2 character to have a recurring appearance throughout the game, hinting at something big and then finally appearing at the end. The problem was the context, the focus, and the sheer lack of information about what she was doing.

 

It focused too much on her hunt for her sister. 

 

Many of us Miranda fans had a lot of issues with this, as it was seen as a rehash of her loyalty mission to an extent. Granted, she's one of the few people who goes off to solve her own problems instead of relying entirely on Shepard. But as I said, they wasted a perfect opportunity for her character to instead focus on something that was resolved. They focused on her emotional aspects and made her out to be someone who just wanted to be loved and to be normal, someone the PC would have to pity. They really could have (and should have focused imo) on her being a badass super-spy whose problems have been taken care of and is out working to see what Cerberus' plans are.

 

She could have been investigating Cerberus and Sanctuary, finding out her father was involved, and later, finding out that her sister had been one of the refugees that had taken shelter there. We could have had her support for the Sanctuary mission, and later have her support for Cronos if she were to survive. As well, they could have had her give more substantial updates and leads on her progress, giving useful information and showing that she was being the hero of another story that I believe BW was trying to do with her (while dropping the ball heavily.

 

Hell, her story could have even been the plot for a side-game or comic, explaining what she was doing in ME3 and how she was doing it. But the focus on her emotional side and the cinematography involving her physical assets (there, I said it), as well as several developer statements about her character (most prominently Hudson) make me feel that they had no other use for her character than what they thought up. It's astounding, since she's actually a strong female character that isn't too masculine or off-putting. She's strong while maintaining femininity, even if they did focus on making her overly sexual.

 

All this said, her story was a lot better than what it was supposedly in the original script: You wouldn't see her or hear from her at all until randomly finding her as a prisoner at Sanctuary, where she had a forced death. I don't know if its true or not, but we Miranda fans had been hearing all about it for a while. 

 

Ask people like ieldra and taboo. Granted, I think they've been gone for a while.

[Daemul]

Thane and Miranda getting big roles in ME3?
lol

 

agree about the others especially about annoying in-my-face Liara

 

Well, they had bigger roles than all other ME2 exclusive squadmates except Mordin and Legion 

[Mister J]

Some ME characters I feel are good enough to have entire games of their own: Kasumi for instance (like a futuristic thief game?) and Miranda as well. There's already controversy over genetically enhanced vegetables: imagine if there were to create genetically enhanced people like Miranda and Oriana, essentially creating a master race: people would get their knickers in a twist over that. I think story-wise there's a lot of material there to work with.

[Fixers0]

The ME2 cast being given such limited screentime in ME3 is just Bioware acknowledging them for what they are: Ground soldiers with daddy issues. In my eyes the fault is on Mass Effect 2 having a cast that was way too large rather than Mass Effect 3 giving them a respected but limited role.

[God]

I don't think it was that at all. And if they're just 'ground pounders with daddy issues', as you eloquently put it, what does it make the members of ME3, who aren't even that?

 

Nevermind, they are that too.

 

Liara has mommy issues. Garrus has daddy issues. Ashley had subtle daddy issues. Tali has daddy issues. Wrex had daddy issues once. James had daddy issues. EDI has figurative daddy issues.

 

So what you're saying is that ME3 needs more Kaidans? Yeah, that'll fly well.

[wright1978]

Miranda had a role that was notionally supposed to be a substantial, important part. She's the only ME2 character to have a recurring appearance throughout the game, hinting at something big and then finally appearing at the end. The problem was the context, the focus, and the sheer lack of information about what she was doing.

 

It focused too much on her hunt for her sister. 

 

Many of us Miranda fans had a lot of issues with this, as it was seen as a rehash of her loyalty mission to an extent. Granted, she's one of the few people who goes off to solve her own problems instead of relying entirely on Shepard. But as I said, they wasted a perfect opportunity for her character to instead focus on something that was resolved. They focused on her emotional aspects and made her out to be someone who just wanted to be loved and to be normal, someone the PC would have to pity. They really could have (and should have focused imo) on her being a badass super-spy whose problems have been taken care of and is out working to see what Cerberus' plans are.

 

She could have been investigating Cerberus and Sanctuary, finding out her father was involved, and later, finding out that her sister had been one of the refugees that had taken shelter there. We could have had her support for the Sanctuary mission, and later have her support for Cronos if she were to survive. As well, they could have had her give more substantial updates and leads on her progress, giving useful information and showing that she was being the hero of another story that I believe BW was trying to do with her (while dropping the ball heavily.

 

Yep they wanted the pity angle.  The focus was supposed to be on her dying to save her sister, whilst Miranda survives version makes little sense, is given little attention and has Tali acting as if she's dead.

 

To me its like they decreed she wasn't allowed in the Cerberus arc, because that since they twisted it into being evil incorporated they didn't want to have to address the fact she was the former 2nd in command. That would get in the way of their pity message. I think it was a despicable decision and leaves me as someone who cares about the character furiously headcanoning what she's doing in the background to confront to the betrayal by the boss she trusted of the organisation she 'd devoted her entire adult life to.

[Mordokai]

so true especially when I replay ME3 I hate Liara simply because she is shoved down my throat at every opportunity

Worst case of a writer's pet if there ever was one

 

 

So what just because Liara can't die they had to shove her in our faces all the time?

 

 

lagree about the others especially about annoying in-my-face Liara

 

 

and since Liara was always the writer's pet they used her the most

 

 

Across the trilogy Liara's is better (obviously). In ME3 Sam's is (as long as you mod away the underwear ).

 

We will have to disagree there. But all is cool, I respect your opinion otherwise

 

The Asari are inherently slutty. Stuff like that cannot be avoided.

 

 

Still, from the looks of it.

[wolfhowwl]

<snip>

 
Here's another one.
 

[Iakus]

Yep they wanted the pity angle.  The focus was supposed to be on her dying to save her sister, whilst Miranda survives version makes little sense, is given little attention and has Tali acting as if she's dead.

 

To me its like they decreed she wasn't allowed in the Cerberus arc, because that since they twisted it into being evil incorporated they didn't want to have to address the fact she was the former 2nd in command. That would get in the way of their pity message. I think it was a despicable decision and leaves me as someone who cares about the character furiously headcanoning what she's doing in the background to confront to the betrayal by the boss she trusted of the organisation she 'd devoted her entire adult life to.

Take the non-import Shepard playthrough.  The one where Miranda is not loyal and thus always dies.

 

That is the "real" ME3 story, of which everything else only carries slight variations.

 

Especially applicable if you play no-import action mode Shepard.

[Mordokai]

 
Here's another one.
 

 

I like this one more

 

[Han Shot First]

The ME2 cast being given such limited screentime in ME3 is just Bioware acknowledging them for what they are: Ground soldiers with daddy issues. In my eyes the fault is on Mass Effect 2 having a cast that was way too large rather than Mass Effect 3 giving them a respected but limited role.

 

I agree about Mass Effect 2 being the problem. Besides the cast of companion characters being too large, they are all also potential casualties in the Suicide Mission. That's just way too many variable fates to account for, particularly when you also factor in that some are potential romance options. 

 

As much as I like some of the cast of characters in Mass Effect 2 the decision to ditch one set of companion characters for another in the middle chapter, and then to end that middle game with a mission where everyone can die...was an odd one.

 

With a trilogy you should keep the same core cast of characters throughout, minus a casualty or two and perhaps with a couple additions along the way. And you save your anyone and everyone can die mission for the final mission of the final game.

[MrFob]

 Wrex had daddy issues once.

 

Nah, he's still got 'em, just the other way around :

 

[themikefest]

The time capsule scene is optional. No one is forced to do that scene. Its all up to the player if he/she wants to have that scene.

 

The same can be said about the goodbye. Its optional. And if the player does talk with her, the option to refuse the gift is there to choose on the dialogue wheel

[Daemul]

of course I'm still pissed

It would have been interesting to see the reaction of Liara fans if she was shafted in ME3 instead of Jack or Miranda

I never hated Liara in ME1 or ME2 (even some of the forced broker stuff I thought was ok) but when you basically make her

the freaking "default" romance for every Shepard (stalking him all the time, intimate scenes like Capsule one or the goodbye)

 

its bound to get people (like me) annoyed especially if their own LI's got shortchanged but I don't expect you to understand that

Not everyone loves Liara (like you do) but you and Bioware don't get that apparently

 

I'm sorry, but have you done the Liara romance in ME3? If you have you would know how crappy it is. The time capsule scene intimate? LOL! She pretty much friendzones you in that scene, and for the rest of the game until the romance scene, even after that infamous Citadel lock in scene, where I swear to god, for a minute I thought she was going to outright dump my Femshep. That conversation was weird was f**k. 

 

Don't confuse Liara getting lots of screentime as devs wanting you to romance her, especially since you could easlly apply that same logic to Garrus, who gets even more screetime(seriously, the dude is everywhere), and I don't see people saying Bioware is forcing them to romance Garrus. Though tbh, they should have, he has the best Femshep romance in ME3, even with that crappy pre-cronos romance scene lol