35 réponses à ce sujet

[draken-heart]

Just forget everything I said Matth85. Varric is good for a high critical party build, but I still say that post halamshiral-the final battle is the best time to really worry about "optimizing" anyone. Sera can handle the mooks, because they do not really require a high crit or a low CD artificer spec to be killed. I noticed that many say you do not even need a specialization or a real optimized build to bet this game easily (I believe it was on nightmare as well).

[Matth85]

Just forget everything I said Matth85. Varric is good for a high critical party build, but I still say that post halamshiral-the final battle is the best time to really worry about "optimizing" anyone. Sera can handle the mooks, because they do not really require a high crit or a low CD artificer spec to be killed. I noticed that many say you do not even need a specialization or a real optimized build to bet this game easily (I believe it was on nightmare as well).

You can beat this game on Nightmare without specialization indeed. The only way to really challenge yourself is to run no specialization + no crafting. Which Ive done as well. It's not too bad if you know where too look for items, but otherwise it's hard. I can tell you Ferelden Frostback at level 11 with level 3 dagger was not the most fun fight!

 

Also, I want to point out the final battle is easy. The only challenging part of this game are early levels. The hardest fight is a toss between the Haven battle and Ferelden Frostback pre-skyhold. Both very manageable. After that the game is a cakewalk. They sort of missed with the balancing of the game. 

Oh well!

 

In the end, in all my playthroughs I take Varric with me. For a few reasons:

1) He's awesome. Not as awesome as in DA2, but he's close.

2) Re specialization he does respectable damage. I can reach higher damage with Varric than Sera, unless I opt for farming Tier 2 materials and schematics. As an artificer he is also the best AI controlled character.

3) Sera looks like an elf hit by a truck, and got a personality of a 3year old throwing a tantrum.

4) Cole is cool, but unecessary. I might bring him over Varric end-game for Mark of Death if I am not an assassin myself. 

5) You can get a master fire rune before Skyhold. What better weapon to give it to than Bianca?

6) The most unique weapon in the whole DA Universe: Bianca

 

So. Yeah. Varric is my go-to companion. Varric and Solas are my core team. I change out the tank from time to time, as none of them are really interesting. 

[draken-heart]

You can beat this game on Nightmare without specialization indeed. The only way to really challenge yourself is to run no specialization + no crafting. Which Ive done as well. It's not too bad if you know where too look for items, but otherwise it's hard. I can tell you Ferelden Frostback at level 11 with level 3 dagger was not the most fun fight!
 
Also, I want to point out the final battle is easy. The only challenging part of this game are early levels. The hardest fight is a toss between the Haven battle and Ferelden Frostback pre-skyhold. Both very manageable. After that the game is a cakewalk. They sort of missed with the balancing of the game. 
Oh well!

I like to use different party set ups based on what is going on. Will use Varric in any area where there is Red Lyrium, may use Cole for helping the hurt, Et Cetera. And as I said before in a post I hid, I have an issue with the Artificer, especially with the build you posted, which makes it sound like you need nothing but long shot and Opportunity Knocks. If the spec were more like the Templar (support, maybe boosting crit chance on the party or something), I may consider using him more.

Also, your list does not impress me much, as I play for story more than combat and mechanics. I find Sera does good enough damage to deal with most mooks, since they do not require that much to kill.

[Matth85]

I like to use different party set ups based on what is going on. Will use Varric in any area where there is Red Lyrium, may use Cole for helping the hurt, Et Cetera. And as I said before in a post I hid, I have an issue with the Artificer, especially with the build you posted, which makes it sound like you need nothing but long shot and Opportunity Knocks. If the spec were more like the Templar (support, maybe boosting crit chance on the party or something), I may consider using him more.

That's the reason Varric is beyond the other companions; AI Archer can not use other abilities than long shot, full draw and explosive shot efficiently. He also gives the team 5% crit. Sweet!

Mines? They run into melee.

 

Leaping shot? Watch the fuckers jump off cliffs.  

Mark of Death? Random target is chosen. Inefficient.

Flask of Frost? Sera runs into melee.

Flask of Fire? Watch her use 2 abilities and auto shoot. 

Flask of Lightning? Decent enough, but she uses it at the worst times.

 

In the end, the AI can use some abilities good: Long shot, Full Draw, Explosive Shot, Evade and Stealth. This is why Varric is a light year above the others. Of course, if we speak assassin vs tempest vs artificer, assassin is on top. Tempest is at the bottom either way -- it's more defensive and about control than damage. You can cheese Thousand Cut if you want, but that's another discussion altogether. 

[draken-heart]

That's the reason Varric is beyond the other companions; AI Archer can not use other abilities than long shot, full draw and explosive shot efficiently. He also gives the team 5% crit. Sweet!
Mines? They run into melee.
 
Leaping shot? Watch the fuckers jump off cliffs.  
Mark of Death? Random target is chosen. Inefficient.
Flask of Frost? Sera runs into melee.
Flask of Fire? Watch her use 2 abilities and auto shoot. 
Flask of Lightning? Decent enough, but she uses it at the worst times.
 
In the end, the AI can use some abilities good: Long shot, Full Draw, Explosive Shot, Evade and Stealth. This is why Varric is a light year above the others. Of course, if we speak assassin vs tempest vs artificer, assassin is on top. Tempest is at the bottom either way -- it's more defensive and about control than damage. You can cheese Thousand Cut if you want, but that's another discussion altogether.

Honestly, I do not really care that much. In fact, I do not even have her using any flask at all, or caltrops. No worries on that front. May not even give her leaping shot all, and focus mostly on Sabotage and Subterfuge.

Your opinion is yours, my opinion is mine. My opinion is that what I have right now, Sera does well enough that the AI is not a real problem for me, as I am hardly touching her spec, and the only flask I got, I turned off because it is not important. I find none of the specializations that important.

[draken-heart]

Honestly, I do not really care that much. In fact, I do not even have her using any flask at all, or caltrops. No worries on that front. May not even give her leaping shot all, and focus mostly on Sabotage and Subterfuge.

Your opinion is yours, my opinion is mine. My opinion is that what I have right now, Sera does well enough that the AI is not a real problem for me, as I am hardly touching her spec, and the only flask I got, I turned off because it is not important. I find none of the specializations that important.

And this is the end of this discussion. Good day Matth85. I do not care about the AI, the builds or any of that garbage. All I care about is if the party can kill the moronic mooks. And if people drop, that is why my mage Trevelyan has Revive.

[EngineerEd]

And this is the end of this discussion. Good day Matth85. I do not care about the AI, the builds or any of that garbage. All I care about is if the party can kill the moronic mooks. And if people drop, that is why my mage Trevelyan has Revive.

OP asks for optimizing Varric. One poster goes on a tirade against optimizing, playing on harder difficulties, and the artificer spec. 

 

If you don't like AI or builds, maybe don't bother participating in a thread about optimizing a companion which is posted in the classes and builds section of this forum??

[Matth85]

snip

First off; It's not an opinion. Optimization and efficiency are not opinions -- they are facts. You got an opinion here; I build on facts. It is not my opinion Varric is good, or artificer is good or that the AI is terrible. Those are facts. It is my opinion that Sera is annoying and Varric is aweseom -- but those are irrelevant to this thread. THis is about builds, strategy and efficiency. Varric beats out Sera and Cole in all scenarios but end-game, at which Sera can have 2 Hidden Blade masterork going, which makes her flask of lightning insane. Other than that, Varric is better in every scenario thanks to how the AI is coded. Not an opinion -- tested facts. 

 

Second off; If you do not care for builds or any of that sort you are A) In the wrong sub forum and B ) on the wrong thread. 

As you said yourself, you do not care. I, on the other hand, don't care for the game itself. I couldn't care less if something dies, or why it dies. Heck, I hardly understand the story, as I don't read the lore or codex. I do, however, enjoy testing and pushing limits. I enjoy seeing what I can do within the game -- break it down into numbers and math. Numbers are not opinions. Numbers never lie. If you don't want care for that particular part -- why are you here? 

[Matth85]

Because there is really nothing else to do, I will admit your build is indeed optimal, but when is optimal really important? Any party can kill anything so the need for an "optimal" build is kind of not really there.

When is anything really important? Why do we play video games? Why do we do what we do?

We do because we can. We do things because it is fun for us. There is no need for a team in this game, nor crafting. I take it you use both? Why?

It's faster, it's more rewarding and it's a lot of fun to see a dragon die in 5 seconds flat!

 

As said, some of us push limits. Safety is boring, which is why stuff like KE and AW are a no-no for me. If I wanted to be bored playing a game, I would do some chores instead. 

 

Why be average instead of being the best? A life philosophy, my friend

 

Alas, if you don't care for builds and such, you should refrain from posting in "How can I build X to be awesome?" threads. These threads build on optimization. These are also the threads I lurk around, and I am not an easy person to discuss with -- but that's how it is!

[draken-heart]

When is anything really important? Why do we play video games? Why do we do what we do?
We do because we can. We do things because it is fun for us. There is no need for a team in this game, nor crafting. I take it you use both? Why?
It's faster, it's more rewarding and it's a lot of fun to see a dragon die in 5 seconds flat!
 
As said, some of us push limits. Safety is boring, which is why stuff like KE and AW are a no-no for me. If I wanted to be bored playing a game, I would do some chores instead. 
 
Why be average instead of being the best? A life philosophy, my friend
 
Alas, if you don't care for builds and such, you should refrain from posting in "How can I build X to be awesome?" threads. These threads build on optimization. These are also the threads I lurk around, and I am not an easy person to discuss with -- but that's how it is!

I understand, most of the time I lurk over the story, campaign and characters section. I admit you have good advice, I just think that it was generally too general.

Optimizing anyone not only depends on the points, or the gear, but how you play. ME? I do not rush to Hissing Wastes right after reaching Skyhold, so such an option is a long way off.

 

If I go kill a dragon, I would probably not use a rogue, but take Iron Bull/

Spoiler

Hisraad or however you spell his Qun name/title

because Bull gets a ton of approval for it I hear.

 

In other words, Build itself was optimal, wording needed work.

[stonerbishop]

You need to grab leaping shot. I think it's six hit hits (or is it 12) each has a chance to crit and reduce cool down. The upgrade increases damage to the next skill used. Makes varic pretty beastly