96 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

So your noble rank can not be taken but is it inheritable by your non mage child if you have one.

 

That probably depends on your family and whether or not they want to take in your bastard. 

 

Also since mages forfeit all rank and title, your children will be born commoners much like Hawke unless the child's other parent is a noble. Assuming a mage of noble birth has a child with a commoner, and your noble family takes in the child, I suppose he/she would be a lord or lady but not a Bann, Arl, Teyrn, or equivalent rank. They'd be far down the line of succession unless the reigning Bann/Arl/Teyrn ect doesn't have heirs.

[Willowhugger]

So your noble rank can not be taken but is it inheritable by your non mage child if you have one.

 

I imagine this is the kind of actual situation which would come up in real-life.

 

Plenty of cousins find ridiculous reasons to challenge inheritance claims.

 

Being a mage's child would probably be one of them.

Of course, mages can't get married as near as I can tell.

Well, they CAN, but not in the Circle.

[helpthisguyplease]

I imagine this is the kind of actual situation which would come up in real-life.

 

Plenty of cousins find ridiculous reasons to challenge inheritance claims.

 

Being a mage's child would probably be one of them.

Of course, mages can't get married as near as I can tell.

Well, they CAN, but not in the Circle.

And another question comes to mind, if they get married before they are taken to the circle lets say their power manifests itself when they are adults(late bloomers) and has a child without magic will he inherit lets say he was conceived when the mage was in the circle? Also the mages marriage be annuled because he is a mage?

[Willowhugger]

And another question comes to mind, if they get married before they are taken to the circle lets say their power manifests itself when they are adults(late bloomers) and has a child without magic will he inherit lets say he was conceived when the mage was in the circle? Also the mages marriage be annuled because he is a mage?

 

That's the sort of question I think would really get into the heart of mages. Leandra is a noblewoman but is she even married to Papa Hawke in anything but the emotional sense?

 

Gamlen drove their family to bankruptcy but was he the heir after she ran off with an apostate?

The papers indicate otherwise but Bethany is dragged off by Templars despite her noble status.

Hawke isn't, probably because Meredith recognizes he kills more Blood Mages than a small army of Templars.

[helpthisguyplease]

That's the sort of question I think would really get into the heart of mages. Leandra is a noblewoman but is she even married to Papa Hawke in anything but the emotional sense?

 

Gamlen drove their family to bankruptcy but was he the heir after she ran off with an apostate?

The papers indicate otherwise but Bethany is dragged off by Templars despite her noble status.

Hawke isn't, probably because Meredith recognizes he kills more Blood Mages than a small army of Templars.

Also he probably will have killed a small army of templars if they tried to take him.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

So your noble rank can not be taken but is it inheritable by your non mage child if you have one.

A mage's child belongs to the Chantry, at least in theory. In practice a nobleman with enough clout might be able to take in a grandchild born to a mage child. (Might.)

[myahele]

It's these cases where a noble family really does need a good lawyer. A noble family will always have more than one heirs, so even if a mage was supposed to be made head of household they wouldn't. Practically, the scandal will ruin the family name.

I can see members taking in a child of a mage and making them a legitimate bastard or sneaking the child as the child of another family member.

[helpthisguyplease]

A mage's child belongs to the Chantry, at least in theory. In practice a nobleman with enough clout might be able to take in a grandchild born to a mage child. (Might.)

No offense but they can not own you like the Church could not own a person. So a kid was given to the church to become a monk but if he did not want to be one nobody can force him to stay. Maybe here a mage belongs to the chantry but not a non mage there are no laws chantry or not that forces a normal person to serve the Chantry. If that normal child that was raised by the chantry wanted to go and live life of luxury and decadence at his grandparents estate the chantry can not force him to stay.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

No offense but they can not own you like the Church could not own a person. So a kid was given to the church to become a monk but if he did not want to be one nobody can force him to stay. Maybe here a mage belongs to the chantry but not a non mage there are no laws chantry or not that forces a normal person to serve the Chantry. If that normal child that was raised by the chantry wanted to go and live life of luxury and decadence at his grandparents estate the chantry can not force him to stay.

I'm quite certain that if it works like that at all, it would work like that starting when the child stops being a child. (Though that system would make sense given how the Chantry has been shown to operate.)

[Han Shot First]

Once a noble child gets sent off to the Circle they no longer have rank and title, so any children (say born through a tryst with a Templar) should be considered commoners. They would be much like Hawke...a common-born person with an interesting family history.

 

I would imagine the mage's noble family could take the child in and raise him or her to nobility however, if they so chose. Unless of course the child was born a mage.

[Master Warder Z_]

Children given to the Chantry are free to leave it; That has been demonstrated repeatedly.

 

The Chantry however will house, raise and educate them if required.

[helpthisguyplease]

1. I wonder if Viviene had childrens with the duke would they be taken by the chantry or raised by him?
2. Who has more power the ruler of a country or the chantry over the mages?

[The Baconer]

I wonder if Viviene had childrens with the duke would they be taken by the chantry or raised by him?

 

That depends on what Vivienne and the Duke would want, since their status allows them to get away with hiding their mage children more easily. I imagine they would be sent to the Circle though, because that's what Vivienne would want.

 

 

Who has more power the ruler of a country or the chantry over the mages?

 

Legally, the Chantry. Even someone like Gaspard could technically be executed for harboring an apostate. Technically.

[gothicshark]

So when you are born a mage to a noble and are taken to the circle do you lose you noble rank and/or your inheritence?

Yes, only in Tevinter are things different. Based on your choices however you can change this.

[herkles]

question: are the mortalitasi classifed as apostates o?

[The Baconer]

question: are the mortalitasi classifed as apostates o?

 

Probably not. They are most likely Circle-trained and still affiliated with the institution, like Vivienne.

[BHRamsay]

This has doubtlessly been mentioned but the HoF takes the title of Arl or Arlessa when they assume the title of Commander of The Grey

no mention of special status is ever made if the Warden Commander is a mage

but then again, The rules for Grey Wardens are quite a bit different

[helpthisguyplease]

That depends on what Vivienne and the Duke would want, since their status allows them to get away with hiding their mage children more easily. I imagine they would be sent to the Circle though, because that's what Vivienne would want.

 

 

 

Legally, the Chantry. Even someone like Gaspard could technically be executed for harboring an apostate. Technically.

Yeah Vivienne is very conservative but if their non mage I wonder if she would send them to the chantry. Also so much time as a mistress and no child I think someone used magic so that it will not happen.

Actually I meant a actual king of a country.

[TeraBat]

Pointing out that Vivienne, as far as we know, is not traditional nobility. She has a court appointment, but she has no lands and none of her titles are heritable. 

[fhs33721]

This has doubtlessly been mentioned but the HoF takes the title of Arl or Arlessa when they assume the title of Commander of The Grey

no mention of special status is ever made if the Warden Commander is a mage

but then again, The rules for Grey Wardens are quite a bit different

Well circle rules don't apply to grey Warden mages. They are legally allowed to live outside the circle and Amaranthine doesn't even belong to the HoF personally but to the grey wardens as an institution. The HoF just gets to be the nominal ruler because s/he is the highest ranking Warden in Fereleden.

[Hydwn]

Application of laws is as messy, imprecise, and frequently hypocritical in this world as in real life

 

I think, though, the parameters are pretty well established by the Connor storyline in Origins.  The law says Connor has to go to the circle, and Arl Eamon will obey that.  Isolde wants to conceal him.  I bet that choice comes up in every noble family that produces a mage.  The Trevelyans were like Eamon, and the Hawkes were like Isolde.  

 

If it wasn't for Jowan and Loghain, it's entirely conceivable that Connor would be Arl now, assuming Teagan is advising Alistair.

 

The Kinloch Hold circle in Fereldan makes it pretty clear that mages can't really keep their lands.That's the most liberal circle we know about.  The First Enchanter calls the shots more than the Templars.  He routinely lets his senior mages travel on circle business, not just the conservative "aequitarians" like Wynne but even libertarians like Uldred.  Wilhelm lives entirely apart from the Circle, yet is still considered a Circle Mage.

 

And yet even Wynne isn't allowed to keep her child.

 

I imagine nobility plays a part socially, of course.  Like how in the middle ages, the bishops were chosen from the noble-born even though clerics entering the church had officially gave up noble titles.

 

Vivienne is also a good test of what a mage can do in terms of power outside of the Circle.  She can be Duke Bastien's mistress, but she cannot marry.  Marriage is about nobility and titles, she tells you, and she finds the idea of a mage marrying absurd.  She's just about the most coddled circle mage around, and even she can't marry.  Unless she's named Divine (a move that shocks everyone) the best she can hope for is Court Enchanter and various forms of unofficial power and influence.  

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned much here is the Court Enchanter title.  It's the only alternative to circle mage/warden/apostate dynamic, and the only one that wields power outside the circle.  The Stolen Throne established even before Origins came out that pretty much every prince of the realm has a mage in their court, and that the Chantry tolerates this (barely).  I'm guessing that's what Wilhelm was (likely as a reward for helping the resistance).  

 

I'd guess that most court enchanters in the various realms are nobility, though that's only speculation.  It's the only outlet for a politically ambitious mage who isn't hiding their powers.

[Zwingtanz]

question: are the mortalitasi classifed as apostates o?

Probably tied to the Nevarran chantry, given their seemingly religious nature