69 réponses à ce sujet

[StopCallingMeHarold]

Crafting in DA:I  is reminiscent of Awakenings'  Rune Crafting Gate of 2010. DA:I's crafting system is way too complicated as far as I'm concerned. Maybe complicated is the wrong word. Better words may be aggravating, tedious, confusing, bewildering, abstract, confusing (did I say confusing already? See! I'm confused just talking about how befuddled I am).

 

Let's look at the greatsword.

 

This particular greatsword has 148 options (20 main hole, 20 metal offense, 20 metal offense, 22 leather utility (yes. My highest DPS greatsword has an option for dexterity or cunning), 23 runes, 43 master fade craft items).  In addition, it can accommodate one of seven pommels each with two holes to stuff (142 options) and one of four grips each with two holes (136 options).  Add them up and you got yurself a pokey stick with 480 options. If anyone is so inclined to calculate the permutations based on those, please do so. I would hazard a guess that the actual possible outcomes for a greatsword is in the hundreds of thousands. ONE GREATSWORD..

 

So what am I trying to say here? First, I can't imagine being part of the team that is trying to create new and creative ways to craft weapons and armour. I'm sure it can be daunting and just because the game got bigger, not mean every aspect of it needs to. I guess that in a game of this size, trying to keep us engaged is part of the challenge as well. Some thoughts on ways that may simplify a crafting environment:

 

1. Allowing schematics to be deleted (I'm pretty sure I don' t need 12 Bianca upgrades for the entire game. I'm not typically in the habit of downgrading my equipment).
2. Please list only the available Master Craft materials and not the materials that aren’t.
3. The offence, defence, utility hole concept is good. At some point it loses practicality.
4. Crafting materials' characteristics are too varied or and have characteristics similar or common aspects. (listed below). It just confuses the process.
5. Please let me know before I make something whether it has arm, leg, blade, grip, etc., holes to stuff. BEFORE I go through the process of making it. Maybe like a feature, or aspect, or something
6. Weapons damage; armour protects. I'm sure some people would object to this statement and I have no counter. It just makes sense to me and is infinitely easier to manage.
7. Could there be a personal storage option please?
8. The 61 crafting items I have perform 120 functions. Just an observation.
9. Bring able to switch between the crafting screen and your inventory. Maybe on a inventory type basis, if I'm crafting armour, it will open the armour section of the inventory & have this in line with the character selection, to be able to view what the selected character is wearing that you wish to craft for.
10. Some of two handed components appear under the one handed inventory category. Not when crafting. It's correct then. 

• Wide Greatsword Grip

• Wrapped Two Handed Haft

• Dense Two Handed Haft

• Rugged Two Handed Haft

• Thick Greatsword Grip

 

Now before anyone says, "Then don't craft, Harald. You don't have to craft", I'Il say "You are right. I don't have to craft" but I enjoy crafting (and a little secret, I do actually "need" to craft. It's compulsive. If I can craft it, I'll craft it. I'll make the biggest, baddest, bettererest est, recoloured, renamed, remagified weapon I can. I like logging in and re-outfitting my team whether it be for day to day battlewear, shopping, or even an evening dragon hunt (heeeere puppy puppy...). (I exaggerate. Not shopping).

 

And before anyone says I'm only being negative in this post, I will disagree. In concept I really like the grip, pommel, haft, blade, arms, legs idea. Changing these components in-game is straightforward and simple. Rune crafting is fine. A different sort order would benefit runes. Or naming convention. Or something. But good overall. The left/right button navigation to flip between character classes and weapons is invaluable when crafting. Function is not the issue.

 

I finished the game and after 229 hours, my overall inventory of crafting supplies looks something like the following. I am confident that these are not all of the schematics available. Maybe not all of the rocks, pelts, or fabrics either.

 

62 weapon schematics

19 grips,

10 blades

11 hafts

12 Bianca upgrades (because we need more schematics specific to one weapon. Not even a weapon type).

 

39 armour schematics

14 arms

10 legs

 

19 fabric types

22 leather types

20 metal types

23 rune schematics

43 master fade options

 

Fabric, leather, and metal options breakdown as follows. I'm not even going to get into the % breakdown of each component. Suffice it to say that it's ridiculous already.

 

19 fabrics (Performing 38 different functions)

Utility Hole: magic or willpower

Offence Hole: heal on kill (6), barrier damage (6) critical damage (1), attack (6)

Defence Hole: magic defence (6), spirit damage resistance (3), electric resistance (6), healing bonus (3), fire (1)

 

22 leathers (Performing 40 different functions)

Utility Hole: dexterity, cunning

Offence Hole:  bleed target on hit (7), flanking (5), critical damage (5), critical chance (4), armour penetration (1)

Defence Hole: cold resistance (9), ranged defence (5), bleed attacker (4), fire resistance (4. 3 of which don't appear until late in the game)

 

20 Metals (Performing 42 different functions)

Utility Hole: constitution, strength,

Offence Hole:  attack (7), guard damage (3), stagger on being hit (6), armour penetration (3), bleed on being hit (1)

Defence Hole: health (6), stagger attacker (6), fire resistance (1), mêlée defence (7)

 

Sank you. I vill here for all zee veek.

Modifié par StopCallingMeHarold, 28 décembre 2014 - 06:40 .

[Vidas Secas]

You also need to put your love when crafting weapons

[realdead_man]

lol.

 

I get your point.

[hwlrmnky]

Lack of the aspect suggested in #5 makes me a little crazy.

[mutantspicy]

Confusing is definitely the wrong word. Its definitely not confusing.  The thing that is confusing is that they changed the attribute system to degree that most of us don't understand completely just yet.  Character attributes are out of our hands, but all these new advanced attributes are suddenly under our control by virtue of crafting.

 

Which is cool in my book.  However in terms of actual ROLE PLAYING, not so much.  I mean RPG fans want more flexibility with character attributes rather than the ability to craft items.  But I personally dig it, because when I played DnD my characters always had crazy professions attached to them.  Whether they were Artisans, Cartographers, Alchemists, etc. I always loved having a focus specific set of skills.  I think they added a really good system here. I'm not going to complain about that.  It can be better of course.

 

But the fact still remains they've put too much emphasis on the importance of crafting verses character building. It seems all the character is within the dialog and how it relates to your interactions with the war table and inquisition leaders.  That's cool too.  But I want to adjust my character attributes. Not only that the importance of the character attributes should be more important than the crafting skills. The crafting skills should be to enhance a character that YOUVE created.  As opposed to you adjusting your character based on the equipment you can make.

[Lord_Burke81]

Yes, please give us some indication of whether or not the item can add in the extra parts before it is constructed. 

 

The ability to delete useless schematics, or hide them (the Bianca stuff or lower quality goods), would be extremely helpful. 

[mutantspicy]

Lets say for instance...

    I'm the type of guy who likes to get in and get out. One shot done.  Play a rogue, load up on Dex, Str.

    But what if I want to do it with style like Bruce Lee.. I wanna pull some combos, sleepy time, shadow killer, hidden blade, ...

       gonna need stamina for that.  Sacrifice some Dex for Con?

  

I'd just like to have some of those choices.

[Viper371]

What I find is lacking in the crafting system is this:
once you make an upgrade, it gets renamed into something nonsensical.  If you come back to it later, you have no idea wich staff grip schematic you used as a basis.  It'd be nice to know that.

[StopCallingMeHarold]

Confusing is definitely the wrong word. Its definitely not confusing.  The thing that is confusing is that they changed the attribute system to degree that most of us don't understand completely just yet.  Character attributes are out of our hands, but all these new advanced attributes are suddenly under our control by virtue of crafting.

 

Which is cool in my book.  However in terms of actual ROLE PLAYING, not so much.  I mean RPG fans want more flexibility with character attributes rather than the ability to craft items.  But I personally dig it, because when I played DnD my characters always had crazy professions attached to them.  Whether they were Artisans, Cartographers, Alchemists, etc. I always loved having a focus specific set of skills.  I think they added a really good system here. I'm not going to complain about that.  It can be better of course.

 

But the fact still remains they've put too much emphasis on the importance of crafting verses character building. It seems all the character is within the dialog and how it relates to your interactions with the war table and inquisition leaders.  That's cool too.  But I want to adjust my character attributes. Not only that the importance of the character attributes should be more important than the crafting skills. The crafting skills should be to enhance a character that YOUVE created.  As opposed to you adjusting your character based on the equipment you can make.

I like attributes being tied to abilities and crafting as bonuses to the ability points I assign. 

 

I didn't know RPG fans didn't like to craft. I'll need to revoke my membership. 

 

DA:I seemed to have crafting as an option, not a requirement. I just like doing it.

[Nefla]

I actually like the crafting (well, if only there were more unique armor designs!) the fabric textures are top notch for light armor too. They even got the difference between velveteen and velvet nailed down I freaking love fabric!

[StopCallingMeHarold]

What I find is lacking in the crafting system is this:
once you make an upgrade, it gets renamed into something nonsensical.  If you come back to it later, you have no idea which staff grip schematic you used as a basis.  It'd be nice to know that.

You do have the ability to rename it. I don't rename my upgrades, only my main item.I get your point, though. 

[b10d1v]

I also found so many issues including missing items and incorrect items, not bug reporting -Just finish it!

Ok, that aside, put crafting, and some armor and weapons in a DLC and let the community fix it - might be beneficial to all.

1. Fix the loot system -scan the player inventory and don't give duplicate schematics!
2. Fix the crafted item value to at least meet the material value!
3. Tier 4 items is an achievement -shouldn't there be some in the game? So many tier 3 items are simply duplicates!
4. Items that do not to have mods for arms and legs are hardly special, they need mods.  
5. Drop all references to Maxwell only items and make them generally available to the team.
6. Rescope each material to each class of character:  Mage gets only material that benefits armor and attributes of magic, willpower and maybe constitution.  Cassandra's primary selections are armor, then attributes strength and constitution followed dexterity and willpower. 
7. All classes get resistance slot options
8. Add some secondary arcane power to weapons for the resistant enemies.
9. Make all schematics purchasable at skyhold foundry or by Dagna quests.
10. rescale spirit damage or allow fade affected materials to do this.
11. Add an option to decompose items and recover materials or have Dagna do it.
12. Have Dagna fuse rune materials on occasion (when you have enough and she has the time)
13. Boost initial crafting so that recrafting at every level is not necessary.
14. Allow crafting and enchanting of accessories

 

The other major issue for replay is the character behavior. DAI needs that dynamic of DAO where team members talk to the player -very disconnected w/o it.

[Dakota Strider]

DAI crafting was rather boring for me.  Just gathering resources and schematics, and adding them together, really is no challenge.  I know we supposedly enlisted master craftsmen to be doing these mundane tasks for us (strange that we did not have some 0-levels doing the mundane task of gathering those resources).  But I have been on player mods of Bioware games, over 12 years ago, that had a far more satisfying crafting experience, where you actually gained skill in crafting, allowing you to create better and better items.  Skyrim came close to this system, and that aspect of Skyrim was very enjoyable.  Such a complex crafting system would increase the challenge of crafting, which in my mind, increases the enjoyment of it. 

 

An issue with that system, is it would take almost as much time crafting, as pursuing the main quest lines of the game.  Not a problem for me, although it does seem a little bit wrong to be spending time learning to be a blacksmith or leather tanner, while Thedas is going to hell in a handbasket, and that brand on the palm of your hand is needed to close the door on some demons.  And obviously, there would probably be many players that hate going through that type of crafting.  Not sure if it was an issue on Skyrim, but this is a different audience. 

[b10d1v]

Maybe adding a spell absorbtion option for mages 

[b10d1v]

DAI crafting was rather boring for me.  Just gathering resources and schematics, and adding them together, really is no challenge.  I know we supposedly enlisted master craftsmen to be doing these mundane tasks for us (strange that we did not have some 0-levels doing the mundane task of gathering those resources).  But I have been on player mods of Bioware games, over 12 years ago, that had a far more satisfying crafting experience, where you actually gained skill in crafting, allowing you to create better and better items.  Skyrim came close to this system, and that aspect of Skyrim was very enjoyable.  Such a complex crafting system would increase the challenge of crafting, which in my mind, increases the enjoyment of it. 

 

An issue with that system, is it would take almost as much time crafting, as pursuing the main quest lines of the game.  Not a problem for me, although it does seem a little bit wrong to be spending time learning to be a blacksmith or leather tanner, while Thedas is going to hell in a handbasket, and that brand on the palm of your hand is needed to close the door on some demons.  And obviously, there would probably be many players that hate going through that type of crafting.  Not sure if it was an issue on Skyrim, but this is a different audience. 

The DAO mods were more fun, especially the one with the elf that comes to camp looking for Duncan

[Dakota Strider]

To b19d1v:  Cannot recall which DAO mod you are referring to.  I was actually talking about crafting on a player server of NWN1.  Back on the classic Aurora game engine, that the players loved, because ANYBODY, could learn to mod on it.

[b10d1v]

I got it on Nexus I think Winterforge and it's not origin friendly, but it had two options a forge and an enchantment station.  As you found elven scrolls you could make new materials and use them in enchanting and crafting -both also allowed recovery of materials, but only a chance of rune recovery.  It was A bit complicated and sometimes cumbersome, so there was a cheat option.

[b10d1v]

Been a while since neverwinter and Skyrim was weak as I modded crafting extensively.

[b10d1v]

Except for the texture, dialog and quest items most of this is just a text edit. 

[Dakota Strider]

True, NWN was a very long time ago.  Yet players....not hired game designers, came up with a great crafting system.  Why could not professionals match what players were able to do, so long ago?

[StopCallingMeHarold]

K. Back to the point. Crafting in DA:I.

[Serza]

TL;DR.

 

OP seems full of bollocks.

[Silith]

I never craft in games because I find it kind of boring. However, I do craft in DA:I. I think the reason for this is that this way I can completely customize the look of my companions rather easily, which is awesome. But the crafting UI is so clunky that more often than not I actually do just pick the colours. I guess the thread aims more at people who take crafting in games much more seriously than I do, but I like to add my two cents as a casual player, heh.

 

It bugs me especially that:

- you can't display only certain tiers of schematics (if I want to know if I've got a T2 heavy armour schematic, why do I have to look at all other tiers as well?)

- much more bothersome is that you can't sort materials in tiers - when crafting, I like to use the highest tier I have, and I don't want to look at the bazillion of lower tier options at the same time, it just confuses me.

- the fact that you won't know if an item has upgrade slots or not bothers me greatly, because an item without those slots is usually pretty useless most of the time. (something to look out for: armours that don't change their appearance on your companions, like the Warden's Armour, Orlesian Armour, etc, don't have slots)

- show which slot supports which stat before going into the materials menu. I don't want to memorize that Utility Leather slots only give Dex/Cunning, that Utility Metal gives only str/con and so forth. I wrote it down, but the game could display this information just as easily. The system mostly makes sense, it's just not communicated well. [Thanks for the breakdown btw, OP - I'm going to update my spreadsheet, lol]

 

If those simple UI problems were fixed, the whole process would be so much more easier for me (again: casual audience here).

 

Oh and while I'm at it: please, PLEASE introduce dyes. I don't want to sacrifice stats just because a combination of materials looks hideous together...

[StopCallingMeHarold]

- the fact that you won't know if an item has upgrade slots or not bothers me greatly, because an item without those slots is usually pretty useless most of the time. (something to look out for: armours that don't change their appearance on your companions, like the Warden's Armour, Orlesian Armour, etc, don't have slot
 

Really?!! But what about formal wear? It had the highest armour rating for my mages, changed their appearance, and didn't have slots

[Silith]

Really?!! But what about formal wear? It had the highest armour rating for my mages, changed their appearance, and didn't have slots

 

The Formal Wear doesn't change its appearance across the characters, it looks the same on everyone. Yes, I found out about the no slots the hard way too.

I don't know how universal that rule is, but so far, it has held up for me. I guess Bioware didn't want to put several variations of these armours in, so you can't have slots on them because those would change the look of the item.