17 réponses à ce sujet

[Jazharah]

I just started a warrior playthrough on Nightmare (gotta get all the 'chievements, yo!) and after facerolling through Hard with a KE, I'm looking for a challenge and more... dynamic fun (as in 'less spamming one skill, more versatility')

 

The intent is to have Viv along for roleplay reasons (the character is a pious, aggressive hypocrite who intends to hold on to the 'old ways' - Viv should be delighted!), as well as Sera to keep challenging inquisitor through banter.

 

The question is: Champion or Templar? (Reaver is out of the question because RP) and also: 2-handed or Sword & Board?

 

Any suggestions for companion's builds other than Varric & Solas (srsly, no more Solas!) are very welcome as well.

 

Thanks!

[ashwind]

(the character is a pious, aggressive hypocrite who intends to hold on to the 'old ways'

 

 

 Sounds like a Templar to me

[sinosleep]

2 hander tree detonations are broken, so if you can't go reaver you can't detonate. So I would go sword and board even though 2/handers have been my class of choice in every fantasy game in the history of ever.

[Jazharah]

2 hander tree detonations are broken

Well that makes that choice easier Good to know though, thank you.

[sinosleep]

Well that makes that choice easier Good to know though, thank you.

Yeah it sucks big-time I have played a giant ax wielding dwarf in every game in which that combination is possible and I have had to self him this time around because I don't want to go Reaver and all the detonations in the standard to hander tree top out at 1 damage. To top it off earthshaking strike is bugged out in the opposite direction and instead of doing 20% burning damage it does 200% burning damage which I also don't want to abuse because exploiting is dumb. How on earth the game made it live with that tree that broken is beyond me.

[Zombie Chow]

As a Knight Enchanter player on Hard, this is a very useful thread.

 

Jazharah, I hope to hear from you soon when you experiment with your Sword & Board character.  I might be heading down that route myself soon.

 

Sinosleep, that's great insight, you really weighed the options and summarized what I was wondering about.

 

Thanks guys.

[Selea]

IMO if you want to have fun then go for S&S. The majority of people seem to really underestimate the power of a S&S DPS build, but in all my tests I always did more damage with a 1 hander than with a 2 hander, and, apart damage, it is infinitely more fun to use as you have a lot of skills with low CD at your disposal.

If for example you go 2 hander Templar you are practically stuck with Templar combos to do the bulk of the damage. With S&S is not so and you practically almost never stop to chain burst skills and combos. Same happens with 2 handed Reaver, where you just continuously spam the two skills in the Reaver spec over and over again.

2 handers have more base weapon damage but this is countered by the lack of burst skills. A S&S can do a lot of burst damage and plus many of those burst damage skills either serve as CC. Then a S&S has much more survivability so you can practically do whatever you want without problems.

As for what it concerns the visual aspect, if that's something that's important for you, shields in the game are really well done and S&S is the only class that has the weapon tied to the belt instead than on the back.

[Jazharah]

Selea, that is some great feedback!  I like what you say about being able to use many skills quickly - but how does that work with stamina?

 

And I have to admit that after playing and switching around a bit with 2-hand and having been steamrolled by the first serious encounter (Hinterlands Crossroads) it definitely looks I'll want to go into more survivability. I downed the Pride Demon at the end of the prologue the second time around with a shield. Being subsequently trampled by a few random mobs because I switched weapon just didn't made sense xD (of course, it's only the beginning of the game, but still...)

 

[edit for grammar >.>]

[Kage]

You are starting to convince me to switch to S&S

 

Jazharah, the thing about stamina. Each time you attack, you get stamina back as a warrior. With S&S you attack more times, with 2H you do more damage each attack and do AoE, depends on your playstyle.

 

However, as 2H you will be using Mighty Blow (50-35 stamina, 16 seconds) and Pommel Strike (35 stamina, 20-16 seconds) a lot. Whirldwind is kind of really broken atm, since only detonates correctly discharges, so you cannot use it without thinking. You must be careful. And the counter also requires you to think when to use it.

 

As a S&S you will be using Lunge and Slash (35 stamina, 8 seconds), which detonates everything correctly for 35 stamina, and it will be up a lot of the time. Payback strike (35 stamina, 8 seconds), that can be spammed even if the effect is greater is they attacked you, since it has only 8 seconds cooldown and does AoE damage. And Shield Bash (35 stamina, 8 seconds), which also detonates everything correctly.

 

So if you want to SPAM SPAM ATTACK ATTACK THINKING IS FOR ****** ATTACK ATTACK GO GO GO, then contrary of what you would think, S&S is better.

You have 3 spammable skills to do damage, 8 seconds each, 35 stamina each, and 2 of them detonate everything correctly, meaning a detonation every 4 seconds.

 

As 2H, you require more finesse and thinking what to do. Also, it is much more squisshy.

 

So yeah, the "berserker" player would prefer S&S. The "each button press counts" player would prefer 2H.

Didnt expect the result, did you? xD

[ozymandiusz]

I just started a warrior playthrough on Nightmare (gotta get all the 'chievements, yo!) and after facerolling through Hard with a KE, I'm looking for a challenge and more... dynamic fun (as in 'less spamming one skill, more versatility')

 

The intent is to have Viv along for roleplay reasons (the character is a pious, aggressive hypocrite who intends to hold on to the 'old ways' - Viv should be delighted!), as well as Sera to keep challenging inquisitor through banter.

 

The question is: Champion or Templar? (Reaver is out of the question because RP) and also: 2-handed or Sword & Board?

 

Any suggestions for companion's builds other than Varric & Solas (srsly, no more Solas!) are very welcome as well.

 

Thanks!

You are looking for a challenge? lol 

Sounds like a joke. this game is not complicated enough to be a challenge. You can die sometimes on nightmare but I would never call it a challenge.

[GuyNice]

2 hander tree detonations are broken, so if you can't go reaver you can't detonate. So I would go sword and board even though 2/handers have been my class of choice in every fantasy game in the history of ever.

If you go Templar you have the best 2handed detonator in the game via Spell Purge. That being said, I agree about the S&S tree, the active skills are very rewarding and effective.

 

If you wanna go for a non-Reaver 2-hand build I would also consider Champion. With Walking Fortress+ and Flow of Battle (cooldown reduction when hit and when u crit) you can charge into a group of enemies (use Pull of the Abyss and/or Static Cage to gather mobs), War Cry, Mighty Blow, Earthshaking, then spin2win (Whirlwind). With the ability ring and upgraded WW it does alot of damage and helps reset your cooldowns quickly.

 

For bosses/single target use To the Death for ridiculous damage + ES (damage over time) and WW (becomes beastly the more you hold it). Also I don't think ES strike is imbalanced even with 200% dps. In fact it would be useless at 20% dps so I think it's a case of the tooltip being wrong not the ability being broken. The only major downside for this build is the unfortunately broken detonators for 2-hand. But you can work around it.

[Anelyn77]

Bartender! 99% Chance that Iron Bull will make a move on you in first night

[Selea]

Selea, that is some great feedback!  I like what you say about being able to use many skills quickly - but how does that work with stamina?

There are two main skills that replenish stamina for a warrior, one (the primary) is Deep Reserves in the Battlemaster tree (a must) and the other is in the S&S tree Warrior's Resolve (that's tied to health lost). These two, coupled with a mage with a Rejuvenating Barrier will keep you able to spam all the skills you want, also because S&S attacks faster than 2 hander so you replenish your stamina faster anyway.

Sincerely I never had problems with a S&S build for what it concerns stamina.

[Selea]

As 2H, you require more finesse and thinking what to do. Also, it is much more squisshy.

 

Finesse in what? Auto-attacking? Outside of the spec trees 2 handers have no burst skill at all of some relevance (either situational or too long in CD), and, in fact, when you go Templar or Reaver you actually just spam the abilities specs over and over.

2 hander Reaver gameplay? Dragon's Rage + Devour spam.
2 hander Templar gameplay? Wrath of Heaven + Spell Purge, lapse auto attacking to lower the CDs of those two, Wrath of Heaven + Spell Purge, and so on.

If this is what you call "finesse" then good for you. For me, the term encompasses something different. Just watch a simple Reaver video on Youtube (since all are 2 hander, usually) and you can see how it is just a continuous spam of two skills over and over again. You simply have nothing better to do reliable damage.

With a S&S you have a lot of options on burst skills to use depending on the moment, and two of the basic tree skills are either detonators so you can use them pretty effectively to combo with the party. It doesn't either help, in fact, that the main 2 hander detonators are broken atm and not working.

You know, the fact that you have more burst skills and with lower CDs on a S&S is NOT a detrimental thing to the enjoyment of a build, quite the contrary usually. For the squishy you are right, but I don't understand why that should be a good thing by itself, sincerely. Actually it forces you to take passives on the S&S tree (so wasting points on things that aren't primary to the build) to either survive. Just because you are a glass cannon doesn't immediately spell "tactical" in itself. It is such only if being a glass cannot is tied to an enjoyable gameplay out of it - usually concerning more damage output - a thing you cannot say of a 2 hander given the total lack of burst skills.

 

[WillieStyle]

2 hander tree detonations are broken, so if you can't go reaver you can't detonate. So I would go sword and board even though 2/handers have been my class of choice in every fantasy game in the history of ever.

Does Dragon Rage count as a detonator? I didn't think it did.

[EngineerEd]

Does Dragon Rage count as a detonator? I didn't think it did.

It doesn't, at least not as listed in skill trees. Maybe one of them is a detonator that's not listed, but I doubt it.

 

I think he was more referring to the fact that he was hoping to use 2H's detonators (they have two, mighty blow and whirlwind) to do a good chunk of damage in combination with a well designed supporting party. However, since detonations are bugged and do like, 1 damage, not only do detonations not buff the damage output of a 2h warrior, but actually nerf it....

 

Meanwhile Reaver does loads and loads of DPS relative to other warriors, but are boring to play after a few hours. 

 

________

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree that S&S is simply better to play in basically every way, especially if you don't want to specialize as a reaver for role-playing reasons. More damage skills that are worth a damn, a guard-generator/defensive active skill that's worth a damn (block and slash is soooooo clunky), and DPS/damage which basically matches if not exceeds that of a 2-handed warrior anyways, especially if you enchant your weapon with a rune (because rune is +fixed damage, not +% damage, and S&S attacks faster with exception of dragon rage spamming reaver).

 

 

Basically the only way 2-handed warrior is better is if you go reaver and dragon rage spam, because 2-handed weapons are just stat sticks at that point (you don't even use them in the dragon rage animation T_T), and 2-handed weapons have the highest damage of any single weapon type in the entire game. Dragon rage also has a fixed attack speed/rate, so it overrides the 2-handed weapon's slow as balls attack rate. 

[sinosleep]

It doesn't, at least not as listed in skill trees. Maybe one of them is a detonator that's not listed, but I doubt it.

 

I think he was more referring to the fact that he was hoping to use 2H's detonators (they have two, mighty blow and whirlwind) to do a good chunk of damage in combination with a well designed supporting party. However, since detonations are bugged and do like, 1 damage, not only do detonations not buff the damage output of a 2h warrior, but actually nerf it....

 

Meanwhile Reaver does loads and loads of DPS relative to other warriors, but are boring to play after a few hours. 

 

________

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree that S&S is simply better to play in basically every way, especially if you don't want to specialize as a reaver for role-playing reasons. More damage skills that are worth a damn, a guard-generator/defensive active skill that's worth a damn (block and slash is soooooo clunky), and DPS/damage which basically matches if not exceeds that of a 2-handed warrior anyways, especially if you enchant your weapon with a rune (because rune is +fixed damage, not +% damage, and S&S attacks faster with exception of dragon rage spamming reaver).

 

 

Basically the only way 2-handed warrior is better is if you go reaver and dragon rage spam, because 2-handed weapons are just stat sticks at that point (you don't even use them in the dragon rage animation T_T), and 2-handed weapons have the highest damage of any single weapon type in the entire game. Dragon rage also has a fixed attack speed/rate, so it overrides the 2-handed weapon's slow as balls attack rate. 

 

 

yeah that's what I was getting at, I didn't really want to go with any of the specializations and was just going to go straight 2 hander and battlemaster for the course of the game making heavy use of whirl wind so I was really disappointed that as the game currently stands the only detonation that actually works with mighty blow or whirl wind are lightning based detonations which kind of hurts my plan of rotating through detonations through sustained whirl winds while switching from paralyze, to freeze, to sleep, with my squad. 

 

I do think I may have been a bit hasty in shelfing the playthrough entirely though as I picked it back up today, bit the bullet and went templar. The templar bonuses DO stack so with Cass and I in the party everyone's got 20% elemental resistances minimum which is nice. The wrath of heaven/spell purge combo is pretty magnificent with a 2 hander and even though it's not technically a combo I still get pretty absurd damage out of mighty blow on knock down since it's upgraded and I also have the +30 to downed enemies talent from the battlemaster tree.

 

So Cass tanks and casts blessed weapons every cool down, I charge in get a free wrath of heaven, then spell purge, then charge again, mighty blow on the downed enemies, and by the time that happens wrath of heave and spell purge are just about ready to come off cool down. I also have Varric casting knock out powder all over the place for spell purge detonations when I don't have wrath avail. It's not what I was planning to do, but it's still fun.

[zeypher]

I agree with selea that even for a reaver S&S is better. Hell it has better passives, fun skills. I played a 2 handed reaver first and it was boring as hell, i still had to get S7S passives, the 2 handed skills were terrible. 

 

Really would like to play an S&S berserker as templars do not interest me, champion is ok at best and reavers is a ll in kind of boring style.