60 réponses à ce sujet

[Sevitan7]

Agreed, that argument should never be made. It should not be up to the player to limit themselves when crafting characters just so that the game functions as intended. It's one thing not to use a single broken ability like Mana Clash back in Origins (which should have been fixed),  but it's another if the key mechanic that a class revolves around is broken. That's just an apparent design flaw, and for people that derive fun from the tactical and character building aspects of Dragon Age games (however small that number may be), it's a big issue.

[sunnydxmen]

Knight enchanter is a tank mage  simple as that in is a fact.

[Matth85]

Knight enchanter is a tank mage  simple as that in is a fact.

Yet, it can't tank. Just survive.

It's an immoral mage. Nothing more, nothing less. No team synergy at all. 

[RavenousIron]

This is the exact same thing that happened with Arcane Warriors back in Origin, you were basically unkillable. Battlemage classes for the most part are always slightly unbalanced because they can do a mixture of things really well. While I do agree that Fade Shield does need a slight nerf, if they go overboard the class will become unplayable. They need to find the perfect mix of defense and offense for KE which isn't going to be easy. They've already nerfed Spirit Blade which significantly decreased our damage, the next best thing they can do is maybe make Fade Shield 25% damage instead of 30%. 

 

Also, I'm not sure why everyone is worried about Knight Enchanter when you have classes like Rogue that can kill Dragons in 5 seconds.

[Bigdoser]

At least KE is not necromancer *cries in a corner* it looked soo good on paper before release. *cries* 

[sunnydxmen]

Yet, it can't tank. Just survive.

It's an immoral mage. Nothing more, nothing less. No team synergy at all. 

 what are you talking about it gives the team better shields in has the best focus ability in the game it also has skill too down pesky enemies who move around alot.

[JaegerBane]

"If it's broken, don't use it" ... that argument doesn't work. Especially not in a single player game. Let's say I want to play a Battlemage - my all time favorite class of any RPGs. I am forced to play as a KE and become immortal, or don't use it at all. 
So, no, that argument is bullshit.

Leaving aside the fact that people who play 'battlemage'-type characters shouldn't generally expect challenge (a class that can do everything isn't normally a platform for that), you assume that when people say don't use it, they mean the class entirely. The KE is only 'OP' if you insist on playing it as a two-button spammer. It's just like all that whining about the vanguard being overpowered back in ME2.

[Selea]

if it was as overpowered as you say how come vivienne dies so fast on nightmare you have to control her to played a certain way if not die like vivienne,

Have you watched the Vivienne AI? Of course she dies, as sometimes even in melee instead than using Spirit Blade (or using a spell) she just stand there staff attacking without a barrier on (because she casted it on other party members), for pitiful damage and little barrier. It's obvious that in nightmare when aggroed she dies (but NOT fast) in this way even with Fade Shield but no human player would ever do something like that.

Moreover at beginning she can die. By end game even by playing her horribly the AI never really dies because even without casting a barrier on herself properly the generation is so fast by end game that it more than compensate damage received.

And please show me a video of a Vanguard used by a beginner where you can simply carelessly attack everything on sight without caring for strategy at all. You can do that only when you know the enemies and their modus operandi, but that's still using strategy, albeit unconsciously.

[Selea]

They've already nerfed Spirit Blade which significantly decreased our damage, the next best thing they can do is maybe make Fade Shield 25% damage instead of 30%. 

And in fact the nerf on Spirit Blade made almost no sense at all. The problem of a KE is not the damage output but the immortality. Actually nerfing Spirit Blade has made the class even more dependant on Fade Shield than before. Before the nerf you could at least survive without taking Fade Shield in melee in certain situations since with combos you could effectively do it in lapses, as it is now it's simply impossible.

Nerfing the damage output when the problem is the damage mitigation is the best way to make damage mitigation even more important and broken than it already was.

[Selea]

The KE is only 'OP' if you insist on playing it as a two-button spammer. It's just like all that whining about the vanguard being overpowered back in ME2.

 

It's always OPed because also normal attacks and other spells recharge the barrier, not only SB. The best strategy is to spam a little SB > cast a couple spells/combos > spam a little SB and so on. Continuously and only spamming SB is actually the worst way to play a KE as you do less damage in that way. You surely don't need SB spam + Fade Cloak to be immortal, if you want you can neither use Fade Cloak at all and be immortal anyway.

As for the Vanguard, again, you need ability to make the class become OP, it doesn't automatically become so just because you take a skill. There's a great difference between the two things. Sure, in the right hands Vanguard is OP in ME, but that's perfectly fine in that way because that power is not tied to a broken skill/ability that does everything by itself automatically, and it is the result of a good build and ability to use the same on the side of the player. Practically everyone that uses KE can make the class OP, even someone that has never played the spec once.

Vanguards at beginning were considered weak by people because they didn't yet know how to use the class properly. Same as it happened in DA:I with DW rogues. Yet now it is widely known that DW rogues are OP if played correctly. This is completely different than the case with KE that is OP no matter what and it has always been so, from beginning.

[sinosleep]

Leaving aside the fact that people who play 'battlemage'-type characters shouldn't generally expect challenge (a class that can do everything isn't normally a platform for that), you assume that when people say don't use it, they mean the class entirely. The KE is only 'OP' if you insist on playing it as a two-button spammer. It's just like all that whining about the vanguard being overpowered back in ME2.

What's hilarious about that is that the vanguard was the most whined about class at launch because people were getting their asses handed to them using it. The whole reason I started making mass effect videos was because I was getting told X is absolutely NOT at all in any way possible with vanguard. I would reply that it was, get told I was lying and was eventually forced into recording my PC monitor with my laptop's webcam before I knew what fraps was.

 

NO ONE was calling the vanguard OP until MONTHS after the fact and about 50 videos from Kronner, Gatsby, Me, SabreSandiego, and some others I'm sure I'm forgetting.

 

[edit here] Holy ****, I just remembered who you are. LOL. I had so many arguments with you on the ME 2 boards. That's awesome.

[Archiballd]

I have one problem i cant  find book about knight enchanter ..( you need 3x fire 10x some metal and this)

Where i can find it  Pl  help

[sunnydxmen]

i see them nerfing so much that it will be worthless then people will complain that they made it too weak, seems to me they gonnna nerf everything they already started with spirit blade, people will complain no matter if its too strong or too weak there is no just right with it.

[GattsuNinefinger]

so what masterwork items did you use on your weapon and armor hidden blades?

[RavenousIron]

I have one problem i cant  find book about knight enchanter ..( you need 3x fire 10x some metal and this)

Where i can find it  Pl  help

You can find the book in Vivienne's room.

 

so what masterwork items did you use on your weapon and armor hidden blades?

Yes I had Hidden Blades on both my armor and weapon.

 

 

P.S On the topic of nerfs, like I said before. They should only nerf Fade Shield by 5%. I believe 25% is a solid ground to stand on.

[Selea]

NO ONE was calling the vanguard OP until MONTHS after the fact and about 50 videos from Kronner, Gatsby, Me, SabreSandiego, and some others I'm sure I'm forgetting.

 

That's what I am repeating. There is a great difference between the two things. Vanguard requires skill and ability to use the class for it to become as powerful as it is, KE doesn't. From beginning (when people are usually not yet accustomed to the classes as to master them properly) there were already videos of KE soloing Dragons.

Hell, even before the game was out and somebody had the chance to test the spec properly people already began to notice that it looked a little too powerful on paper. Nobody expected, however, that it was even more so in practice.

[Farangbaa]

Thanks! All of that footage was recorded on Nightmare. I forgot to put that in the title of the video.
 
That passive only works if an enemy destroys your Barrier, not if it depletes overtime. Enemies rarely break my Barrier even on Nightmare. Fire has the best synergy with Knight Enchanter because of Flash Point and Flash Fire. Also, Fire spells are very cheap to cast and do insane amounts of damage so that's why they're my favorite.
 
P.S Did you watch the video? I used Fade Cloak 90% of the time. You should watch the video on Yotube so that you can put it in 720p.

Barrier does not have to be destroyed, you don't even need to take damage. You can test it easily by just casting a barrier on yourself and just watching it deplete.

Hell, I was just running around the Hinterlands (was gonna make you a vid but apparantly the program I used to use for that now freezes up like half a second into the vid :s), just using my staff on random critters like Fennecs. The staff from the damage alone was enough to get a minimal barrier, once that barrier depleted I got the Mana Surge.

In short: game text on the skill sucks, or the skill in the game is madly broken, but in any case: you get the Mana Surge as soon as your Barrier goes from a value bigger than 0 to a value of 0 (or lower ). Might be a really small minimal barrier size at play, but I didn't notice it.

[Farangbaa]

That's what I am repeating. There is a great difference between the two things. Vanguard requires skill and ability to use the class for it to become as powerful as it is, KE doesn't. From beginning (when people are usually not yet accustomed to the classes as to master them properly) there were already videos of KE soloing Dragons.

Hell, even before the game was out and somebody had the chance to test the spec properly people already began to notice that it looked a little too powerful on paper. Nobody expected, however, that it was even more so in practice.

This would be a problem if it was a PvP multiplayer game. But it isn't.

What do you care someone else like to spam two buttons to win?

[Farangbaa]

It's an immoral mage. Nothing more, nothing less. No team synergy at all.

Was removed in the most recent patch. Before the Spirit Blade could cause Weakness and Nightmare.

[Rynas]

Just a little something I spliced up and glued together. Mainly for those of you Interested in the class and want to get a small taste of what it's like. Enjoy~

 

 

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

Nice vid. Why no Fire Mine?  And do you think Disruption Field is worth it?

[Gaz83]

Disruption Field is totally worth it, even though it no longer works on bosses. Drop down a fire wall and watch them cook slowly, like a nice leg of lamb.

 

The original video is a perfect demonstration of the class. It shows how powerful it can be, without cheap spamming of the spirit blade. 

[Rynas]

Yeah, it's great to see a vid from someone who like, actually knows how to play the class.

 

That Fire Wall idea sounds fun - will have to try it

[sinosleep]

This would be a problem if it was a PvP multiplayer game. But it isn't.What do you care someone else like to spam two buttons to win?

I guess the closest thing to relate it to would be a thread in this very forum where people are complaining about being over leveled for story missions . Now in my opinion it seems a little bit silly considering all the story missions have very clearly marked level recommendations which allow you to simply stop doing sidequest once you hit the appropriate range and then go do the mission. Common sense would seem to dictate the only reason people are over leveled is because they aren't paying attention or can't stop themselves from doing side missions long enough to do story missions at the clearly labeled appropriate level.

Now commonsense may also dictate here that all anyone has to do that feels that there's an issue with the night enchanter is to give themselves and not use those abilities. But just like the people who are complaining about being over level can't seem to stop themselves from doing side missions in order to bypass that issue they are going to be people who can't help but be irritated by being forced into gimping themselves.

Either way I think I'm about done derailing this thread as this is kind of a off-topic discussion at this point. The video was cool and really that's pretty much all we should be discussing.

[Farangbaa]

I guess the closest thing to relate it to would be a thread in this very forum where people are complaining about being over leveled for story missions . Now in my opinion it seems a little bit silly considering all the story missions have very clearly marked level recommendations which allow you to simply stop doing sidequest once you hit the appropriate range and then go do the mission. Common sense would seem to dictate the only reason people are over leveled is because they aren't paying attention or can't stop themselves from doing side missions long enough to do story missions at the clearly labeled appropriate level.

Now commonsense may also dictate here that all anyone has to do that feels that there's an issue with the night enchanter is to give themselves and not use those abilities. But just like the people who are complaining about being over level can't seem to stop themselves from doing side missions in order to bypass that issue they are going to be people who can't help but be irritated by being forced into gimping themselves.

Either way I think I'm about done derailing this thread as this is kind of a off-topic discussion at this point. The video was cool and really that's pretty much all we should be discussing.

I agree with everything you say.

That's farily uncommon

[RavenousIron]

Barrier does not have to be destroyed, you don't even need to take damage. You can test it easily by just casting a barrier on yourself and just watching it deplete.

Hell, I was just running around the Hinterlands (was gonna make you a vid but apparantly the program I used to use for that now freezes up like half a second into the vid :s), just using my staff on random critters like Fennecs. The staff from the damage alone was enough to get a minimal barrier, once that barrier depleted I got the Mana Surge.

In short: game text on the skill sucks, or the skill in the game is madly broken, but in any case: you get the Mana Surge as soon as your Barrier goes from a value bigger than 0 to a value of 0 (or lower ). Might be a really small minimal barrier size at play, but I didn't notice it.

 

So yeah, you can see there why I was confused. The skill description is evidently wrong if what you're saying is true. Which I totally believe because Bioware has done a poor job with their skill descriptions. Either way the skill doesn't fit my play-style, but if it works for you that's awesome.

 

Nice vid. Why no Fire Mine?  And do you think Disruption Field is worth it?

It's a bit hard to see, but if you look closely when I first cast Disruption Field immediately after I cast Fire Mine right under the enemies feet. I like combing those two skills together because they work really well. It's also a great combo because it activates Conductive Current and Chaotic Focus which in turn buffs my Fire Mines damage by around 70%.

 

Also, yes. I totally think Disruption Field is worth it. It's especially potent at stopping those pesky Archers. If you Fade Step + Disruption Field into a crowd of Archers they're completely immobile for a few seconds. Giving you more than enough time to dispatch of them and move on to other enemies.