52 réponses à ce sujet

[StopCallingMeHarold]

I freaking love CC. DA:2 had plenty of opportunities to hail arrows, gravitate, freeze, or fry groups of bad guys. I feel like I am mourning the loss of crowds. Sure rifts have waves but not like the waves in DA:2 at the docks where you couldn't wait for another round. I found no fun in any kind of wall (ice, fire, warriors) here. It felt like most battles wee too spread out in an area and limited bottle-necks.There were no great opportunities for traps, either. Just sayin'.

[Baerdface]

True, "holding the line" with a tank character is kind of annoying when enemies are all over the place unless you pull them from far away like in an MMO. And fighting bigger crowds is less about controlling the battlefield and is more about DPS race, to make sure you have your barriers up and kill all the heavy hitters as fast as your tank loses guard. I find fights to be quite short in general. Seems everything is more risk/reward and if you don't do things right it is quick to snowball into your face. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

DAO was awesome for crowd control.  DAI has far fewer options.

[StopCallingMeHarold]

Exactly. Solas has grav ring and he uses it on one enemy at a time! I just shake my head, "Oh Solas. Born without a brain"

[Zombie Chow]

I was wondering about this, too.  I played a lot of DA:O, but skipped DA2 entirely, so I thought I misunderstood something in DA:I.

 

In DA:O, I remember a casual gamer friend saying it looked like a tabletop board game or Real Time Strategy game, which I found so interesting.  By studying the map, the enemies, it's like you planned and prepped each encounter in advance, like a chess puzzle.  It was like a battle was decided before it began.

 

In DA:I, having experimented with Rogue Dual Wield, Rogue Archer, then a Mage.  It's still very fun, but I felt it was more about reacting to the enemies.  I think it was deliberately designed that way with a lot more random elements, like random encounters, you can't tell what comes out of rifts, etc.  It feels very reactionary.

 

I wondered why that was the difference and at 1st, I thought it was because I didn't like the DA:I tactical camera as much, but I think you guys are more correct.  It's the nature of the DA:I in particular.  I actually really liked both games, but I'm also thinking a Dual Wield Dwarf would be really fun now.

[StopCallingMeHarold]

Funny. I thought it was the tactical camera at first as well. I've started to think that the camera is too far from the action now. It's not the same not needing to squeegee blood and brains off of my glasses.

 

 

The tactical pause scenes aren't nearly as much fun either.   

[tmp7704]

I routinely have 1-2 enemy characters CC'ed during fights in DAI, if just to reduce incoming damage and to set up damage combos. It may not be on mass scale it was in DAO/DA2 but then the amount of enemies you typically face is reduced in similar manner, so it evens out.

[StopCallingMeHarold]

@tmp7704 Yeah, OK. I get your point and I think 3 is the minimum for a crowd. But I want crowds of 10, 12, and waves of the same.

[Farangbaa]

Oh yeah, lets reminesce some more about DA:O and it's awesome crowd control

 

Where you could beat half the game by doing the following in every room:

 

Glyph of Repulsion + Glyph of Paralysis --> Paralysis Explosion

Spell Might + Blizzard + Tempest --> Storm of the Centuries

 

Then smoke your weed, maybe add an Earthquake into the mix to make sure no one leaves the storm.

 

Nightmare was a real challenge, right?

[Matth85]

Don't forget health potion chugging!

DA O was like good old Diablo II. Chug 'dem potions. Plant your pinky firmly on the button and spam the **** out of it for the remainder of the battle!

 

You know, the reduction of spell, spell combos, potions, healing and stat allocation does make sense when we look at DA O in hindsight. 

[Farangbaa]

And not just one health potion, oh no, four of them, which you could use separately from each other to basically be immortal.

As if that wasn't enough, here, we also give you heal spells, mass healing spells and lifewards

[Pluvie]

Oh yeah, lets reminesce some more about DA:O and it's awesome crowd control

 

Where you could beat half the game by doing the following in every room:

 

Glyph of Repulsion + Glyph of Paralysis --> Paralysis Explosion

Spell Might + Blizzard + Tempest --> Storm of the Centuries

 

Then smoke your weed, maybe add an Earthquake into the mix to make sure no one leaves the storm.

 

Nightmare was a real challenge, right?

 

Oh you forgot send tank in, aggro everything, then Force Field + Crushing Prison

[Farangbaa]

Oh you forgot send tank in, aggro everything, then Force Field + Crushing Prison

 

So not necessary when everyone and their mom is paralysed for 20 seconds

[Imryll]

Don't forget health potion chugging!

DA O was like good old Diablo II. Chug 'dem potions. Plant your pinky firmly on the button and spam the **** out of it for the remainder of the battle!

 

You know, the reduction of spell, spell combos, potions, healing and stat allocation does make sense when we look at DA O in hindsight. 

This DAO in which one chugged health potions and spammed healing spells  ... it is not the game I played. I don't doubt that some did, but I think the question is why did they chose that approach when alternatives were available. 

[Sidney]

There are fewer of your basic AoE spells (sleep, mass paralysis although horror is back)  but then again there are fewer mobs so having a fire spell that causes a single target to panic is functionally a form a crowd control because it will eliminate 1/3 of the foes you face from a lot of battles. Heck, full draw upgraded puts things to sleep and assuming it doesn't die it is "controlled" for a rather long time. CC isn't an area where I don't feel like I have options.

[StopCallingMeHarold]

Potion chugging? LMAO! I played through DA:I on hard and didn't have a mage take a lyrium potion. Ever.

[Siven80]

I also miss the crowd control options from previous games.

 

I honestly get the impression that the multiplayer combat had a factor in the lack of long CC options in the game.

 

I used to play DAO by CC'ing as many as i could, then my party would at most engage 1 opponent each, i barely used the healing spell i had (it was last resort), barely chugged potions (didnt need to with such good CC). I had fun.

 

I chug more potions in DAI than i did in DAO and DA2, DAI is just a case of Spam barrier and potions due to the lack of real longterm CC. Its disapointing.

[Matth85]

I chug more potions in DAI than i did in DAO and DA2, DAI is just a case of Spam barrier and potions due to the lack of real CC. Its disapointing

 

Winter's grasp

Frost Mine

Blizzard(I guess it can be seen as a small CC?)

Fire Wall

Flashfire

Chain Lightning

Static Cage

Stonefist

Pull of the Abyss

Mana Surge

 

Pommel Strike

Mighty Blow

Payback Strike

Grappling Chain

Charging Bull

War Horn

Wrath of Heaven

 

 

Twin Fang

Deathblow at < 50%

Knockout Powder

Knockout Bomb

Flask of Frost

Explosive Shot

Full Draw

 

Yep. There really is a lack of CC in this game. Granted, they are short durationed(is that even a word?). Which is because this game is more action-focused than Origins. A side effect from DA II probably.

[Siven80]

All short durations.

 

Give me spells with longer durations like Paralyze, Mass Paraysis or Sleep.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Winter's grasp

Frost Mine

Blizzard(I guess it can be seen as a small CC?)

Fire Wall

Flashfire

Chain Lightning

Static Cage

Stonefist

Pull of the Abyss

Mana Surge

 

Pommel Strike

Mighty Blow

Payback Strike

Grappling Chain

Charging Bull

War Horn

Wrath of Heaven

 

 

Twin Fang

Deathblow at < 50%

Knockout Powder

Knockout Bomb

Flask of Frost

Explosive Shot

Full Draw

 

Yep. There really is a lack of CC in this game. Granted, they are short durationed(is that even a word?). Which is because this game is more action-focused than Origins. A side effect from DA II probably.

 

There are a couple more like Shield Bash and Ice Wall. I'm baffled that anyone would think this game lacks cc o.o

[Lukas Trevelyan]

All short durations.

 

Give me spells with longer durations like Paralyze, Mass Paraysis or Sleep.

Not true at all. Most sleep/terrify spells last at least 8* seconds. That being said they're less broken this game. 

*Just remembered Flash Fire or w/e its called only terrifies for 8 seconds  

[dreamgazer]

You know, the reduction of spell, spell combos, potions, healing and stat allocation does make sense when we look at DA O in hindsight.

Kinda, yeah. Wonder if people would prefer less options or a fuller range of options with heavily nerfed capabilities.

[StopCallingMeHarold]

There are a couple more like Shield Bash and Ice Wall. I'm baffled that anyone would think this game lacks cc o.o

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting it lacks cc, I was saying it lacks the crowds to control

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting it lacks cc, I was saying it lacks the crowds to control

 

Oh. That was confusing. Anyway the lack of waves of enemies was because that particular aspect was one of the most hated parts of the game, I do still believe there are a handful of encounters that badly require proper cc if you don't want to chug 4-6 potions, whether its Keep fights, rift fights (those that have multiple demons) or enemy encampments or enemy clusters in main quests, plus the map designs allow for some cool plays. I'd agree though, more random encounters should have more enemies because they were pretty much (too?) easy to handle .-. 

[Matth85]

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting it lacks cc, I was saying it lacks the crowds to control

Which is a side effect of wanting shorter combat and more action paced combat.

It's simply how the game is built. There are a handful of fights CC are required, and out of those about 70% of the abilities in the game does some sort of CC. By timing them right you got some solid CC.

 

Obviously, I know what you are saying. Long lasting CCs was nice. This game isn't designed for it, though, which is probably why they are not present. Just as healing and stat allocation are gone as well. They tried to balance the game as it is now, since it is a nightmare to balance a game like origins -- the failed at it; but they tried.