33 réponses à ce sujet

[emAeye]

There have been a few translations of what Solas says to Abelas in the Temple of Mythal, but I thought I'd try a stab at it because the ones I've read so far don't seem to... hit the right spot,  I think, for something that Solas would say.


So, in my translation, "Malas amelin ne halam, Abelas" means:

 

"My prideful writing, My/The God's blood, is not your end, Abelas" and the blood writing of course refers to the vallaslin

also just to keep things simple i refer to the elven pantheon as "the gods" but of course they may have just been nobles, or had extreme powers, or whatever.

the breakdown:


"Malas amelin ne halam Abelas"


malas = ma , las

ma = my, mine, you

las = pride (solas)? slow (felas)? sorry (abelas)? writing (vallas)?


in which case = my pride, my apologies, my writing, my slowness

it wouldn't make sense for it to be "you/your", because the word for your is already "na"



amelin = ame , lin

ame = pronoun, "i am the one"

lin = blood


in which case = my blood, that blood is from me, i (am the one that) created that blood



ne = closest "na" = your

in which case = not your, not yours

this is going on the conjecture that "ne" is the negative or opposite of "na"

 

 

halam = end, the end

 

so what we're left with is:

"my pride, my blood, is not your end, Abelas"

"my writing, my blood, is not your end, Abelas"
        
"my slowness, my blood, is not your end, Abelas"
        
"my apologies, my blood is not your end, Abelas"


slowness really doesn't make any sense here, and apologies sort of does but not as much as pride or writing. it's purely conjecture on my part, but i like to think that the most meaning is derrived from taking both "pride" and "writing", something along the lines of "my proud writing" or "my prideful writing"

to me this is Solas saying that his/the god's blood writing (the vallaslin), is not Abelas' end; that those markings have no meaning anymore and that Abelas is no longer a slave to any of the gods and can go off and live his life.

considering that the gods took pride in having so many devoted/slaves, and because the vallaslin were their way of marking which people were devoted to which god, Fen'Harel had a bit to do with it as well. he was one of the gods, after all, and surely there were some that worshipped him. so it's His/Their writing, His/Their blood, that is on Abelas' face.

This idea also adds the sort of royal plural to "ame", as all of the Gods are the ones who created the vallaslin, or at least all of them used the vallaslin. So, when he says "ame" it wouldn't just mean "I", it would be "We" as in The Gods. Think about when a king or queen says "We are very pleased" but they just mean singularly, "I am very pleased." It would be exactly the opposite in case of "ame"

in decoding which tattoos belong to which gods, Fen'Harel is absent, but so are The Forgotten Ones. It's not impossible to think that they too had followers with vallaslin, which is why Solas would use "I/They" instead of just "They" to refer to both himself within the gods, and not just the gods.

this also makes sense in the context of what Solas says that he tells Abelas, that he hopes Abelas gets a different name. By telling Abelas that the markings have no bearing anymore, he's telling Abelas to change his life, to start over and become someone new; in a way, to be free like Fen'Harel had intended them to be. the easiest way to express that without outing himself as Fen'Harel (or at least as one of the gods) is to tell the inquisitor that he hopes Abelas gets a new name.

of course that leads to the idea that maybe Abelas knew that Solas was Fen'Harel? whether or not that can be sensed by ancient elves i do not know, but considering the way Solas talks about how things used to be i would not count it out, honestly.

 

As a side note, it sort of sucks that Bioware puts out these bits of elvish, but we have no concrete way of translating them aside from the Wiki and, well, conjecture. I understand that with the lore the elves don't really have a full grasp of their language, but it seems a shame to not have a fully fleshed out language that the players can actually translate easily and without so much guess work. Especially if you're going to throw in a character like Solas, who seems to speak it fluently.
 

[Jaron Oberyn]

I thought he said in game that he told him "may you find another name" or something to that extent?

[emAeye]

I thought he said in game that he told him "may you find another name" or something to that extent?

 

Solas did say that, but a lot of people were very "hmmmm" about whether or not Solas was lying, and according to a few translations (including mine), while it is a semi-accurate sentiment, it's at best a rough idea of what he said instead of exactly what he said. Playing as an elf inquisitor it's sort of a bummer to not fully understand everything Solas says in elvish, so for a lot of people (myself included) it's worthwhile to translate as accurately as possible.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Solas did say that, but a lot of people were very "hmmmm" about whether or not Solas was lying, and according to a few translations (including mine), while it is a semi-accurate sentiment, it's at best a rough idea of what he said instead of exactly what he said. Playing as an elf inquisitor it's sort of a bummer to not fully understand everything Solas says in elvish, so for a lot of people (myself included) it's worthwhile to translate as accurately as possible.

Well it would be difficult to know for sure without understanding the full language. I don't see why he would have lied about it though.

[DxWill103]

I don't think I follow where you're going with this.  Regardless of what Solas specifically says, I think the only thing to take from this is he says something meaningful toward Abelas, an attempt to make him feel better about himself.  It doesn't really matter specifically what he says, because, as far as hidden plot twists in this game that no one has discovered yet (if there even are any) I highly doubt this specific 1 sentence bit of dialogue is one of them.  We have no reason to disbelieve what he told us what he said to Abelas.  There's no reason or motivation for us to believe he would lie about something like this.  It's one thing to omit details, it's a whole nother notion to have a character blatantly lie about something when an author is developing character and story.  If you're going to have straight up blatant lies in your story, there needs to be a colossal overarching theme and motivational reason behind it, and the character's motivations in general. 

 

Anyway, if you're implying there's more to this conversation than what Solas told us, I'm just gonna have to disagree. 

[emAeye]

I wasn't meaning to imply that Solas somehow did mislead the inquisitor (I mean everyone that's tried to translate clearly found out that he didn't), or that he flat out lied about what he said. The sentiment that he gives us, "told him to change his name", is similar to what I think he specifically said, but there are curiosities in the language, nuances, that I'm interested in figuring out. I don't believe it's anything game changing or some big secret, but every language has nuances and connotations that I think are worth exploring just for the fun of it.

 

I guess basically what it boils down to is that I enjoy the language and I want to learn more about it. To be able to translate it accurately instead of just having to go off of, "this is basically what I said" or something like that, would personally enhance the game for me. This particular instance doesn't mean a lot, but if you take Solas into the fade with you what the Nightmare says to him does become somewhat important (I've only read about it though, I didn't have him in my party at the time).

 

So, yeah, while it doesn't matter what he specifically says, it's interesting to me to find out a closer approximation. I mean, even if he was referring to the vallaslin as having created them with the gods, that's just me throwing out theories because I think they're interesting to explore. There are lots of bits in the game where it's hinted at that Solas is more than he seems, and it doesn't really change the game or the ending, but I personally find it makes the game more fun --like it's just another mystery to try and solve, however minor and inconsequential, and exploring the language he uses adds to that for me.

[snackrat]

Wait crap, mis-read this. I thought this was Solas as Wisdom. My bad.

 

(Original post:)

Spoiler

I played as a dwarf, subtitles were elvish.

I played as an elf, subtitles were English.

Thought that was neat - was very impressed.

 

It was something like:
"I'm sorry"

Don't be, I am myself again. I am dying, but you must endure. Help me find my way.

"As you say."

...and then wooosh sparkly lights and stuff!

My elf guy gets to say "yep I heard her, she was right" and Solas just all sad face "So now.. I must endure."

[DxWill103]

I wasn't meaning to imply that Solas somehow did mislead the inquisitor (I mean everyone that's tried to translate clearly found out that he didn't), or that he flat out lied about what he said. The sentiment that he gives us, "told him to change his name", is similar to what I think he specifically said, but there are curiosities in the language, nuances, that I'm interested in figuring out. I don't believe it's anything game changing or some big secret, but every language has nuances and connotations that I think are worth exploring just for the fun of it.

 

I guess basically what it boils down to is that I enjoy the language and I want to learn more about it. To be able to translate it accurately instead of just having to go off of, "this is basically what I said" or something like that, would personally enhance the game for me. This particular instance doesn't mean a lot, but if you take Solas into the fade with you what the Nightmare says to him does become somewhat important (I've only read about it though, I didn't have him in my party at the time).

 

So, yeah, while it doesn't matter what he specifically says, it's interesting to me to find out a closer approximation. I mean, even if he was referring to the vallaslin as having created them with the gods, that's just me throwing out theories because I think they're interesting to explore. There are lots of bits in the game where it's hinted at that Solas is more than he seems, and it doesn't really change the game or the ending, but I personally find it makes the game more fun --like it's just another mystery to try and solve, however minor and inconsequential, and exploring the language he uses adds to that for me.

I think I read about what you're referring to in the fade part.  Didn't pay much heed to it at the time when that happened to me in my game obviously, but after I read that, I was also curious if it was actually translated as some people were speculating.  Wasn't it something about the demon referring to him as a wolf? Or a trickster or something?  I can't recall exactly but if that's the case it certainly makes things more interesting as far as Solas' true nature and fears are concerned. 

 

I also seem to recall reading about people saying elvhen in general doesn't really have any specific translations, like you can find in tolkein's elf language.  Which is a shame, as I would also like to hear more about it.  Sadly, I think if there were translations accurate enough to make sense, someone would have discovered it by now.

 

I know in the 'Faded, for her' quest for Solas, as an elf inquisitor, the subtitles are translated, so maybe someone can utilize that bit of dialogue, even though it was brief, and find out more about the language, and how to translate it.

[emAeye]

I think I read about what you're referring to in the fade part.  Didn't pay much heed to it at the time when that happened to me in my game obviously, but after I read that, I was also curious if it was actually translated as some people were speculating.  Wasn't it something about the demon referring to him as a wolf? Or a trickster or something?  I can't recall exactly but if that's the case it certainly makes things more interesting as far as Solas' true nature and fears are concerned. 

 

I also seem to recall reading about people saying elvhen in general doesn't really have any specific translations, like you can find in tolkein's elf language.  Which is a shame, as I would also like to hear more about it.  Sadly, I think if there were translations accurate enough to make sense, someone would have discovered it by now.

 

I know in the 'Faded, for her' quest for Solas, as an elf inquisitor, the subtitles are translated, so maybe someone can utilize that bit of dialogue, even though it was brief, and find out more about the language, and how to translate it.

 

Yeah, some people have translated it roughly, and the demon refers to Solas as "the trickster" or "the rebel" or something like that, but it all alludes to being the Dread Wolf. But yeah, like snackrat said during the Faded, For Her quest there are english subtitles for what Wisdom says so long as you play an elf. It's not a lot to go on, you're right, but I'm sure some more words can be translated from it at least.

 

I think the real reason that there's no tolkein-esque guide to elvhan is that Bioware probably doesn't have it completely fleshed out as a full on language. It's a hard thing to do, and I'm sure they work on it, but it's really disheartening to have to guess all the time. I mean most of what we do know about the language may not even be completely accurate. Like taking the part of one word, or even a whole word, and mashing it onto another to form a new word, like with "vallaslin", but whether or not that rule exists throughout the language or just in certain cases is unclear --at least to me. I'm sure someone out there has a scholarly article written about elvhan language, but I have yet to come across it. 

 

Anyway, I just think it would be neat if Bioware would come out with an actual guide to the language instead of relying on fans to do so much guesswork. It's fun, like solving a riddle, but it's also incredibly frustrating and there are such wild variations that it's nearly impossible to know anything for sure.

Like one translation I read of Solas' line to Abelas comes out like, “Your story does not end here, it’s within you, Abelas.” So, same sort of sentiment, wildly different wording and connotations.

[DarkSpiral]

Are the translated subtitles unique to All New, Faded for Her quest?

[Kantr]

Are the translated subtitles unique to All New, Faded for Her quest?

 
yes

[emAeye]

Are the translated subtitles unique to All New, Faded for Her quest?

As far as I've seen only the Faded quest has english translations if you're an elf. Solas speaks to Sera in elvish as a banter and it's not translated at all. He also speaks to an elf in The Hinterlands (I forget which quest) that isn't translated, but you end up getting an amulet of power for him out of it.

So from as best I know the Faded quest is the only translated dialogue.

[LobselVith8]

I think you get them for any Eleven Dialogue (if your an elf) as long as it's not solas talking to Abelas or the nightmare demon

 

I recall one prime example, when a friend of Solas' speaks elvish to him, and Lavellan understands it. Lavellan even speaks fluent elvish at one point.

[emAeye]

I recall one prime example, when a friend of Solas' speaks elvish to him, and Lavellan understands it. Lavellan even speaks fluent elvish at one point.

 

Do you happen to know what triggers the dialogue for Lavellan to speak elvish? I definitely didn't get that on my last play through, but I'd like to try and get all the instances of translated elvish that I can find in game to help translate other things.

[theDuchess]

Special delivery for emAeye :

Solas and Sera's banter:

 

1. Solas: Ar dirthan'as ir elgara, ma'sula e'var vhenan.
2. Sera: Pppbbthh!
3. Solas: Excuse me?
4. Sera: Excuse yourself, whatever you said and what I did, same difference to me.
5. Solas: I'd hoped, well, our people can sometimes feel the rhythm of the language despite lacking the vocabulary.
6. Sera: Uh huh? Know what else is good? Words that mean things. Like these, words.
7. Solas: Fenedhis lasa.
8. Sera: Pppbbthh!

What I personally could translate to myself (before I find this topic) was:

1. Solas : My heart tells me that there were many spirits here /or 'passing through'/ - or s.t. like that

...

7. Solas: Cursed/ stupid child.

 

I would love to know too when Lavellan speaks elvish, because I cannot recall the scene.

May be I've missed it and I would love to see it - now I'm playing my second pt.

 

Edit: Many thanks to AstusOz - the quest name is Measuring the Veil - the first one where you could find and activate one of the elven artifacts. I haven't hear her speak elvish, because I always ask Solas to speak with Mhiris.

[Ozzy]

Do you happen to know what triggers the dialogue for Lavellan to speak elvish? I definitely didn't get that on my last play through, but I'd like to try and get all the instances of translated elvish that I can find in game to help translate other things.

 

She speaks elvish when she convinces Mhiris to hand over whatever she found in the temple (that turns out to be an Amulet of Power for Solas). It's Solas' quest in The Hinterlands.

[rigron]

As far as I've seen only the Faded quest has english translations if you're an elf. Solas speaks to Sera in elvish as a banter and it's not translated at all. He also speaks to an elf in The Hinterlands (I forget which quest) that isn't translated, but you end up getting an amulet of power for him out of it.

So from as best I know the Faded quest is the only translated dialogue.

 

"Meassuring the Veil", the first Solas´s personal (Inncer Circle) quest

 

He talks with the other elf in elven every time and you can use Solas to make her give you the amulet of power at the end of the mission instead of killing her to loot it. Seems that what he says to her if you use that option is Ma harel, da´len, which translates into something like Fear me, little child

[theDuchess]

Actually , he says to Mihris "Ma harel, da'len" if you ask her what is she doing there, and it triggers before you enter the cave.

After she finds the 'thing that was left from her ancestors" - the option Solas to talk to her triggers this:

Solas: "Ma halani, ma glandival. Vir enasalin"

Mihris: "I... perhaps you're right. Here, take it. Go with Mythal's blessing."

All I could find was:

vir - way; path

enasal - joi, triumph or relief

and

lin - blood.

If there is s.o. better to translate the other 4 words, it'll be great.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=X6i7m_yUEMs

[Arisugawa]

A brief aside - I just played through Measuring the Veil and Mhiris was nowhere to be found. The entire quest proceeded without her.

[Timpants]

Given that Abelas has been locked up in a temple for a few thousand years, only waking to kill people who go too close (and so probably didn't have time for a nice chat), wouldn't his elvish be much different to the version spoken by the Dalish anyway? So even if the words have some resemblance to other elvish words we've already seen in the series, they could have a much different meaning for him. 

[theDuchess]

A brief aside - I just played through Measuring the Veil and Mhiris was nowhere to be found. The entire quest proceeded without her.

Did you take Solas with you ?

[emAeye]

Special delivery for emAeye :

Solas and Sera's banter:

 

1. Solas: Ar dirthan'as ir elgara, ma'sula e'var vhenan.
2. Sera: Pppbbthh!
3. Solas: Excuse me?
4. Sera: Excuse yourself, whatever you said and what I did, same difference to me.
5. Solas: I'd hoped, well, our people can sometimes feel the rhythm of the language despite lacking the vocabulary.
6. Sera: Uh huh? Know what else is good? Words that mean things. Like these, words.
7. Solas: Fenedhis lasa.
8. Sera: Pppbbthh!

What I personally could translate to myself (before I find this topic) was:

1. Solas : My heart tells me that there were many spirits here /or 'passing through'/ - or s.t. like that

...

7. Solas: Cursed/ stupid child.

 

I would love to know too when Lavellan speaks elvish, because I cannot recall the scene.

May be I've missed it and I would love to see it - now I'm playing my second pt.

 

Edit: Many thanks to AstusOz - the quest name is Measuring the Veil - the first one where you could find and activate one of the elven artifacts. I haven't hear her speak elvish, because I always ask Solas to speak with Mhiris.

 

Ahhh, thank you very much !! I've been waiting and waiting to get that banter to trigger again but it hasn't yet for the playthrough I'm on.

My translation varies a bit from yours to be honest, but whether mine is more accurate there's really no telling. Yours makes sense for something that Solas would say, but I think because he's speaking directly to Sera it might go a bit like this?

 

Ar dirthan'as ir elgara, ma'sula e'var vhenan.

ar = i, me / personal pronoun



dirthan'as = dirth, an, as  

dirth = speak, tell

an = place, location

as = probably a present-tense modifier as best i can guess

so, "speaking the language of this place"  -- I'm not sure if the banter is location specific or not, though. If it is that might be why it hasn't come up for me again, as I've just barely gotten to Skyhold.
 

ir = very, more / an exaggeration or extention



elgara = elgar , a

elgar = spirit

a = ?? another modifier, perhaps "old" or at least past tense?


ma'sula


ma = my, mine, you

sula = su , la


su = happen

la = ?? no clue



e'var

el = our

vir = path

so, maybe "our old path" or "our old ways". It seems in a few cases "a" replaces "i" to denote tense, but that might also be completely wrong.


vhenan  = heart


the best i can tell is Solas is saying something like, "I'm speaking the language of this place, the great spirit and heart of our old ways"

though that's such a loose translation, I have no idea what he's saying with "ma'sula", maybe like, "you happen to know?" or asking if Sera understands what he's saying? considering his next lines in English, that he hoped she would at least get the rhythm.

My final call on this is, "I'm speaking the language of this place, which had great spirit. Do you know it? It's the heart of our old ways."

You're right about fenedhis lasa though, he's definitely just like, "stupid kid", or maybe "damn kid" because Solas doesn't like that Sera, you know, completely doesn't appreciate elven culture at all.
 

Again thank you so much for giving me the text!

 

 

"Meassuring the Veil", the first Solas´s personal (Inncer Circle) quest

 

He talks with the other elf in elven every time and you can use Solas to make her give you the amulet of power at the end of the mission instead of killing her to loot it. Seems that what he says to her if you use that option is Ma harel, da´len, which translates into something like Fear me, little child

 

 

Actually , he says to Mihris "Ma harel, da'len" if you ask her what is she doing there, and it triggers before you enter the cave.

After she finds the 'thing that was left from her ancestors" - the option Solas to talk to her triggers this:

Solas: "Ma halani, ma glandival. Vir enasalin"

Mihris: "I... perhaps you're right. Here, take it. Go with Mythal's blessing."

All I could find was:

vir - way; path

enasal - joi, triumph or relief

and

lin - blood.

If there is s.o. better to translate the other 4 words, it'll be great.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=X6i7m_yUEMs

 

Thank you also for prividing the text! not playing on PC makes taking screencaps impossible and I can never seem to keep up with the subtitles so this is all very helpful! Okay, so, onwards!


Ma halani, ma glandival. Vir enasalin


halani = closest is "halam" = the end, finished

ni might be a negator, so, "not finished"


glandival = ?????? who the hell knows ??????

val might break down into "writing", or "written", as it's the root for vallas, but other than that i'm at a loss. There's supposedly a sword with a similar name to "glandival" but that isn't translated either so it's of absoutely no help.

vir = way or path

enasalin = enasal , lin

enasal = joy or triumph

lin = blood

so, something like, "I'm not finished, I'm -------. That's [the locket] the path to Our [elvish] triumph."

or maybe, "I'm not at the end, I need that because it's the path to our triumph."

It seems like Solas only threatens Mihris if the inquisitor is not elvish, because I believe she lies about why she is there if the inquisitor is anything but Dalish? I'm not 100% on that though, but the translation of "ma harel, da'len" is accurate, in "fear me, child". It definitely doesn't come up if the inquisitor is Dalish though, because Mihris talks about how her clan is dead and she's looking for a new one or something and Solas doesn't say anything during that conversation.
 

 

Given that Abelas has been locked up in a temple for a few thousand years, only waking to kill people who go too close (and so probably didn't have time for a nice chat), wouldn't his elvish be much different to the version spoken by the Dalish anyway? So even if the words have some resemblance to other elvish words we've already seen in the series, they could have a much different meaning for him. 

 

I wondered if maybe elvish language had changed a lot since Abelas was "awake", so to speak. It's entirely possible that it has, though I don't know that Bioware is prepared to make at least two variations of the same language. From a lore perspective this is interesting to debate, but honestly I doubt that in game that's going to play a factor. Would be realllllly neat if it did though, just to find out the Dalish are even more wrong than they have been.

 

----

 

If anyone else comes across more elvish text and wants me to take a stab at translating it I'd be more than happy to. In the meantime someone else has a page full of their translations (some I think are accurate, others I don't really agree with), here: http://archiveofouro...g/works/2719730
 

[SpookyDjinn]

Does anyone know what Corypheus says to Solas in the Fade, during 'Here lies the Abyss'.....and what he says back?

[emAeye]

Does anyone know what Corypheus says to Solas in the Fade, during 'Here lies the Abyss'.....and what he says back?

 

I think there's a translation of it here: http://archiveofouro...g/works/2719730

 

But now that I have the text for it I'm going to also do one myself, but it may take a bit as I want to take Solas into the Fade first so that I can hear how they say it... that sounds strange, but, it makes it easier to translate if I can hear what emphasises they use and tones and whatever blahblah dumb language stuff.

 

Anyway!

 

Their translation has it as: “Tell me traitor, what will it feel like when you lose everything? Your pride will be your end.” And Solas says “Nothing is certain.” Another interpretation is “Tell me, rebel, will your victory be an empty one? It appears pride is all you have left."

[SpookyDjinn]

I think there's a translation of it here: http://archiveofouro...g/works/2719730

 

But now that I have the text for it I'm going to also do one myself, but it may take a bit as I want to take Solas into the Fade first so that I can hear how they say it... that sounds strange, but, it makes it easier to translate if I can hear what emphasises they use and tones and whatever blahblah dumb language stuff.

 

Anyway!

 

Their translation has it as: “Tell me traitor, what will it feel like when you lose everything? Your pride will be your end.” And Solas says “Nothing is certain.” Another interpretation is “Tell me, rebel, will your victory be an empty one? It appears pride is all you have left."

Thank you for the link.
I found the 'tone' of the conversation curious......Especially Solas' tone when he replied.