44 réponses à ce sujet

[Yuyana]

Ok, qunari will attack, and win the war. How many people will they lose? 20%? 50%? More? And why? Because they really wanted to crush? If they are not threatened by Tevinter, then I see no reason for war. Yea, they can destroy Tevinter and rest of Thedas and win some darkspawn infested land. Sounds good.

[Vox Draco]

Because Thedas would kick their sorry ar*ses even then, sending them back to the sea and crushing the Qun hopefully once and for all ... pft...horned idiots...

 

However they have this awesome secret weapon that really makes me worry ... horribly rendered dreadnoughts...they have the potential to make everyone that sees them die instantly of either laughter or shame ...

 

Fear the Qunari-Dreadnoughts!

[TobiTobsen]

Yeah, but keep in mind that Arvaarad is essentially the Qunari version of a Templar and in his case, he happened to be particularly militant in both his dislike of mages and those outside the Qun. How does that make him any different from some of more corrupt or overzealous Templars we've seen in the series, like Alrik or Varnell?

 

For all we know there are Arvaarad who are far more tolerant and modern in their treatment of Saarebas, but who aren't afraid of doing their job when it needs to be done, making them the Qunari equivalent of Templars like Cullen, Greagoir or Evangeline.

 

(And personally, I bet that those Arvaarad's reaction to their colleague's death was "Thank goodness, that guy was a complete tool...")

 

 

Of course that could be possible too.

But since we know that the Qunari employ such nice tactics as cutting out tongues and seewing lips shut if mages "misbehave" I tend to think that the Arvaarad in DAII was a rather apt example of the usual mage-handler under the Qun.

[Aimi]

The Qunari lost the Battle of Warsaw and Trotsky got purged. They're after the Qun in One Country right now.

Ok, qunari will attack, and win the war. How many people will they lose? 20%? 50%? More?

In actual military history, twenty percent casualties usually constitutes a "defeat". Fifty percent casualties is somewhere between "rout" and "massacre".

[The Baconer]

Yeah, but keep in mind that Arvaarad is essentially the Qunari version of a Templar and in his case, he happened to be particularly militant in both his dislike of mages and those outside the Qun. How does that make him any different from some of more corrupt or overzealous Templars we've seen in the series, like Alrik or Varnell?

 

For all we know there are Arvaarad who are far more tolerant and modern in their treatment of Saarebas, but who aren't afraid of doing their job when it needs to be done, making them the Qunari equivalent of Templars like Cullen, Greagoir or Evangeline.

 

(And personally, I bet that those Arvaarad's reaction to their colleague's death was "Thank goodness, that guy was a complete tool...")

 

The Arvaarad's response was not one of "dislike" or particular intolerance, but what was demanded by the Qun. Arvaarad means "one who hold back evil", and the Qunari contend that mages cannot control themselves. An un-collared Saarebas is "lost", representing a threat to both themselves and others. Thus, Saarebas who lose their lead, and bas Saarebas -- mages who previously lived outside the Qun, are either killed or lobotomized by Qamek by default.

 

The idea of a "Cullen" or "Greagoire" esque Arvaarad is a total fantasy, because it is based on a misunderstanding of the Qun in general.

[myahele]

They're probably waiting for a "sign" to start invading. War is expensive and will cost a lot of life.

But I do agree with all the nations in civil war or recovering from a civil war it is a good time to invade. There also the fact that there was a hole in the sky that proves to the Qun just how chaotic these Thedosians are.

A qunari invasion will be nice for the next game since its not the end of the world scenario and you're fighting a philosophy not big evil dude

[Former_Fiend]

They're probably waiting for a "sign" to start invading. War is expensive and will cost a lot of life.

But I do agree with all the nations in civil war or recovering from a civil war it is a good time to invade. There also the fact that there was a hole in the sky that proves to the Qun just how chaotic these Thedosians are.

A qunari invasion will be nice for the next game since its not the end of the world scenario and you're fighting a philosophy not big evil dude

 

The flip side of that is the challenge of giving us all proper motivation while maintaining moral ambiguity. 

 

For a lot of people on these forums, opposing the Qun is a no-brainer, which, good for them. They're qunari-like in their certainty. 

 

For the rest of us... would I have a reason to oppose the qunari instead of leaving Tevinter to it's fate and heading south? Assuming my character wouldn't just switch teams and convert.

[Sifr]

The Arvaarad's response was not one of "dislike" or particular intolerance, but what was demanded by the Qun. Arvaarad means "one who hold back evil", and the Qunari contend that mages cannot control themselves. An un-collared Saarebas is "lost", representing a threat to both themselves and others. Thus, Saarebas who lose their lead, and bas Saarebas -- mages who previously lived outside the Qun, are either killed or lobotomized by Qamek by default.

 

The idea of a "Cullen" or "Greagoire" esque Arvaarad is a total fantasy, because it is based on a misunderstanding of the Qun in general.

 

Except that you're forgetting that Arvaarad showed open contempt for Hawke and his companions and his dialogue with them, regardless of whether or not he truly believed them guilty of murdering the karataam, showed barely restrained hostility.

 

"My role is to hold the leash and hunt the grey ones who leave the Qun... or bas who have yet been enlightened."

 

"It is my role to secure Saarebas. It is the role of another to purge the perversions of your kind"

 

Sure, I understand that his entire job is to restrain and keep mages under check and that's what he's trying to do (with Hawke and his friends getting in the way) but nonetheless, the guy seems way too overzealous in his appointed task and even more intolerant of bas than most Qunari in DA2 (which is saying something).

 

As Sten and Iron Bull mention, while the Qunari do collar and leash their mages, they also respect and admire them for constantly having to cope with that struggle inside of themselves, being the embodiment of the search for control that those under the Qun aspire to.

 

Why does that therefore make the idea of a more tolerant Arvaarad a fantasy? I never said that they wouldn't be prepared to execute them the moment they thought they might be corrupted, nor not bind them in the Qunari fashion, merely that they might not be so eager to lop off people's heads as this guy seemed to be?

[AtreiyaN7]

Because there's a big hole in the sky - and frankly, that probably takes precedence over anything else, including any urge to spread the Qun to non-qunari nations.

[The Baconer]

Except that you're forgetting that Arvaarad showed open contempt for Hawke and his companions and his dialogue with them, regardless of whether or not he truly believed them guilty of murdering the karataam, showed barely restrained hostility.

 

"My role is to hold the leash and hunt the grey ones who leave the Qun... or bas who have yet been enlightened."

 

"It is my role to secure Saarebas. It is the role of another to purge the perversions of your kind"

 

The Qunari stuck in Kirkwall are generally appaled by the city, and to make matters worse for Arvaarad, Hawke arrives with the uncollared mage in tow and further demonstrates their ignorance of how mages are dealt with in the Qun.

 

 

As Sten and Iron Bull mention, while the Qunari do collar and leash their mages, they also respect and admire them for constantly having to cope with that struggle inside of themselves, being the embodiment of the search for control that those under the Qun aspire to.

 

Sten has absolutely nothing positive to say about the Saarebas, and Iron Bull states that he personally respects them, but that they are also treated with general fear and mistrust in his society. To "admire" them, or infer that they face a greater struggle, is to imply that their calling is beyond what is expected of every other Qunari, and thus an insult, as stated by the Arishok.

 

 

Why does that therefore make the idea of a more tolerant Arvaarad a fantasy? I never said that they wouldn't be prepared to execute them the moment they thought they might be corrupted, nor not bind them in the Qunari fashion, merely that they might not be so eager to lop off people's heads as this guy seemed to be?

 

Because, again, his apparent eagerness to do violence is an ingrained reflex, his role within the Qun demands nothing less in the given situation.

[Sifr]

 

Sten has absolutely nothing positive to say about the Saarebas, and Iron Bull states that he personally respects them, but that they are also treated with general fear and mistrust in his society. To "admire" them, or infer that they face a greater struggle, is to imply that their calling is beyond what is expected of every other Qunari, and thus an insult, as stated by the Arishok.

 

That's not what the codex says in regards to how the Qunari view them;

 

"The Qunari pity and honour the saarebas, for striving under constant threat from within is truly selfless, which is the highest virtue of the Qun".

 

As for the Arishok, he only says that he does not wish to insult Saarebas' memory by saying that the decision to immolate himself was difficult, because the Saarebas are conditioned to commit suicide when they're unbound. Indeed, the Arishok muses that his reaction to hearing that Saarebas followed the Qun to his death, is probably the greatest honour he could have gotten in his life.

[Willowhugger]

That's not what the codex says in regards to how the Qunari view them;

 

"The Qunari pity and honour the saarebas, for striving under constant threat from within is truly selfless, which is the highest virtue of the Qun".

 

Which I think everything points out is like the Chantry honors and loves Circle Mages as champions of Chantry values.

 

Is the Tallis webseries canon?

[Sifr]

Which I think everything points out is like the Chantry honors and loves Circle Mages as champions of Chantry values.

 

Is the Tallis webseries canon?

 

Nah, it's from the DA2 codex, right after you meet Arvaarad in "Shepherding Wolves".

[Aren]

ahh Thedas with crazy demons, archedemons,mages, anciet magisters ah    , qunari are not so stupid, better to stay safe at home, who cares about this crazy land of thedas.

[Medhia_Nox]

Comitting to an invasion when Tevinter is trying to bulk up with Red Lyrium... 

 

Bad idea. 

[Sifr]

It makes me wonder if the Qunari are just waiting for the bas in Thedas to stupidly kill themselves, so they'll have no problems recolonising the place afterwards? Given the relative stupidity pile up that happens in Inquisition from all the major players, it does seem like it's heading in that direction?

[The Baconer]

That's not what the codex says in regards to how the Qunari view them;

 

"The Qunari pity and honour the saarebas, for striving under constant threat from within is truly selfless, which is the highest virtue of the Qun".

 

Not written by an actual Qunari. (Riviani human, and a Seer no less. Guess what they don't have within the Qun?)

 

 

As for the Arishok, he only says that he does not wish to insult Saarebas' memory by saying that the decision to immolate himself was difficult, because the Saarebas are conditioned to commit suicide when they're unbound. Indeed, the Arishok muses that his reaction to hearing that Saarebas followed the Qun to his death, is probably the greatest honour he could have gotten in his life.

 

Yes, and he also literally says that the same would be expected of any other Qunari.

[SgtSteel91]

It makes me wonder if the Qunari are just waiting for the bas in Thedas to stupidly kill themselves, so they'll have no problems recolonising the place afterwards? Given the relative stupidity pile up that happens in Inquisition from all the major players, it does seem like it's heading in that direction?

 

Then again you sort through the stupidity and by the end of the game potentially become Top Dog in Southern Thedas, with nearly every nation and organization dancing to your tune.

[Sasie]

My impression from the last two games or perhaps even Origin is that Qunari soldiers/people actually start to change when they come in contact with the rest of the world. They are not perfect in their roles and start to make connections/friendships just like everyone else and the doubt that comes from that makes a portion of their polulation go Tal-Vashoth. Aka the longer one of their people spend outside of Qunari lands the greater the risk of turning. Not that they necessarily will turn even then but it's more likely for someone to have doubt when they see the alternative. 

 

It happened to every Qunari we seen so far, even the Arishok eventually lost his cool and went on a rampage because he could not stand being in the south while maintaining his Qunari attitude.

So even if the Qunari did invade and made good progress at the start I think the Qunari will always lose that fight in the end because even if they could conquere new lands they don't have the people to hold it while also dealing with their own deserters and continue to press on at the same time.