38 réponses à ce sujet

[MightyZan]

It invloves Blackwall, just as an FYI.  I'll put this under a spoiler cut just in case.  And I should say it's nothing against the characters themselves, I just found it odd.

 

Spoiler

When you take Blackwall with you to find Hawke's friend  (in this case it was Alistair) he says "you have a grey warden with you" and then mentions Duncan and whatnot.

 

Shouldn't he as a Grey Warden be able to tell that Blackwall doesn't have the taint, since they can feel it and all that (like whne Anders tracked them by feeling them)?

 

Just needed to get that out there.  Thank you.

[Willowhugger]

It invloves Blackwall, just as an FYI.  I'll put this under a spoiler cut just in case.  And I should say it's nothing against the characters themselves, I just found it odd.

 

Spoiler

When you take Blackwall with you to find Hawke's friend  (in this case it was Alistair) he says "you have a grey warden with you" and then mentions Duncan and whatnot.

 

Shouldn't he as a Grey Warden be able to tell that Blackwall doesn't have the taint, since they can feel it and all that (like whne Anders tracked them by feeling them)?

 

Just needed to get that out there.  Thank you.

 

We can softpedal this with the fact Alistair is a ******.

He also started taking Lyrium again.

[LOLandStuff]

Anders tracked them because he knew Stroud was around.

Guy is paranoid and believes everyone is out there to get him. His first reaction when Hawke meets him is if they were sent by the wardens. So no surprise he was spying on them.

[Willowhugger]

Anders tracked them because he knew Stroud was around.

 

I assume the Grey Wardens have regular patrols and stuff, being a military and all.

Anders would know them.

[MightyZan]

Anders tracked them because he knew Stroud was around.

But he mentions feeling them (something along the lines of, "I think they are up here, or it could just be a bunch of Darkspawn")

 

We can softpedal this with the fact Alistair is a ******.

He also started taking Lyrium again.

I guess it would help if I knew if Stroud mentions me.

 

Lyrium?

[Willowhugger]

I guess it would help if I knew if Stroud mentions me.

 

Lyrium?

Yeah, Alistair starts taking it again in "The Sleep" comics.

 

It's possible he's just flat out forgotten what a Grey Warden feels like too.

[LOLandStuff]

Huh, I got the impression that he heard some noise and thought it was the Grey Wardens, until Darkspawn start shrieking.

[MightyZan]

Yeah, Alistair starts taking it again in "The Sleep" comics.

 

It's possible he's just flat out forgotten what a Grey Warden feels like too.

I totally must have missed that part in the comics, though I don't know if it counts in this case since in that he is kings and wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff.

 

Forgetting what they feel like seems odd.  *shrug*

 

I'm assuming it's added because they didn't want it too be like... "waaaiiittt a minute."  but it still kinda bothered me

[Teshayel]

Alistair is apt to get distracted...

 

Seriously, though. If you want a reasonable explanation, you can ascribe it to the warden (whether it is Ali, Stroud or Loghain) being high strung, and not picking up on all the details. Otherwise, just consider it a tiny little plot hole  

[MightyZan]

Huh, I got the impression that he heard some noise and thought it was the Grey Wardens, until Darkspawn start shrieking.

I rewatched it on youtube.

 

He talks about sensing the Blight in your sibling, and then when they go looking stops and says "I think they are nearby... Or it could be Darkspawn." 

 

*Shrug*

 

 

Alistair is apt to get distracted...

 

Seriously, though. If you want a reasonable explanation, you can ascribe it to the warden (whether it is Ali, Stroud or Loghain) being high strung, and not picking up on all the details. Otherwise, just consider it a tiny little plot hole

Like I said, it didn't make me hate them or anything, it just made me go hmmm, since it was a second playthrough.

[Augustei]

It invloves Blackwall, just as an FYI.  I'll put this under a spoiler cut just in case.  And I should say it's nothing against the characters themselves, I just found it odd.

 

Spoiler

When you take Blackwall with you to find Hawke's friend  (in this case it was Alistair) he says "you have a grey warden with you" and then mentions Duncan and whatnot.

 

Shouldn't he as a Grey Warden be able to tell that Blackwall doesn't have the taint, since they can feel it and all that (like whne Anders tracked them by feeling them)?

 

Just needed to get that out there.  Thank you.

Whats weirder is when you take Blackwall to Adamant Fotress and can get Blackwall to talk to the Wardens there

Those Wardens would know who Blackwall was, He was the second in command of the Orlais chapter of the Grey Wardens

[MightyZan]

Whats weirder is when you take Blackwall to Adamant Fotress and can get Blackwall to talk to the Wardens there

Those Wardens would know who Blackwall was, He was the second in command of the Orlais chapter of the Grey Wardens

Blood Magic is a ******.

[MightyZan]

Yeah, Alistair starts taking it again in "The Sleep" comics.

 

It's possible he's just flat out forgotten what a Grey Warden feels like too.

Oh I also might have forgotten because it wouldn't have been a started retaking it, but a started taking it since he said in DA:O that he never started in the first place since he didn't take his vows.

 

I think I'm going to headcanon that he was distracted by... things, and the Wardens in the fortress are really distracted by the demon stuff.

[Wawek22]

Whats weirder is when you take Blackwall to Adamant Fotress and can get Blackwall to talk to the Wardens there

Those Wardens would know who Blackwall was, He was the second in command of the Orlais chapter of the Grey Wardens

No, they wouldn't. He was the second in command of Montsimmard Fortress. They heard about him though.

[Augustei]

No, they wouldn't. He was the second in command of Montsimmard Fortress. They heard about him though.

Montsimmard is the headquaters of the Orlesian chapter of the Grey Wardens. Blackwall was the Warden-Constable and so second in command of the Orlesian Wardens. They would have known who he was

[VanishedFaces]

I wondered about this as well, but then I figured it could the the Calling shutting out everything else.

[Zombie Chow]

I was thinking about this as well after completing that questline. I have 3 possible explanations, let me know what you think (as in my world state, I had Stroud as Hawke's Grey Warden ally, so maybe these do not apply).

Spoiler

1.) Not sensing the lack of Taint in Blackwall: it's because of the Calling.

I remember Stroud describing the Calling as whispers that grow into a song, incessant enough to drive them mad, which is why they take the Long Walk. If it's that strong an influence, it may conceivably drown out their ability to sense the Taint.

I think of sensing someone's Taint during the Calling like trying to hear someone's voice in a noisy bar; I can see them talking to me, but I can't hear their voices over the loud music, but I pretend to be listening out of politeness.

Example: if sensing other Wardens' Taint was so strong (keeping in mind the Calling may be affecting it), the other Wardens sent to hunt Stroud would have probably already found him.

Thus, the Calling may explain why the lack of Taint sensed seemed no big deal AT THAT TIME.


2.) Not recognizing Blackwall: the Wardens are a loose network.

I know of the Grey Wardens mostly from DA:O, so please correct me if I'm mistaken. The Grey Wardens, to my knowledge, are relatively few in number and really spread out. In DA:O, there were basically only 2-3 Wardens left in ALL Ferelden.

As a Warden-Constable, he'd have been a field commander (according to the Wiki), meaning he was mostly out in the field. It's possible the only people that met him were his recruiter and his recruits, not that many people.

The Wardens may know each other only from their letters, as they're so spread out. I worked in a multinational where we do things mostly by email and conference calls; some key colleagues I never ever met, so this happens even today.

We always joked we could have a hacker or someone bluff his way into our offices as a colleague. We even have a system where we can see each other's profile photos in our email, but many people replace them with cat pictures.

Thus, considering the loose, independent Warden work-style, again it wasn't so surprising.


3.) Surely, there must be somebody to recognize Blackwall: but maybe they were all dead already.

I remember at Adamant, the person we saw sacrificed was an old guy, a close friend of the Commander of the Grey Clarel. It reminded me how Grey Wardens have shorter lifespans due to the Taint anyway.

Now, Blackwall is probably in his 40s or 50s. So are probably his closest peers, the guys who may have served with him, who'd recognize him. But I think they would have been sacrificed first.

With the blood magic sacrifices, plus the Grey Warden's selfless mentality, the older Wardens probably volunteered to go first. They'd be like, "I'm closest to my death anyway, the Calling is loud, use me instead of the recruits."

The only person who may recognize Blackwall was Clarel, maybe. But even then, perhaps she didn't become the Commander until after the real Blackwall died, possibly never really worked with him, plus he's been dead at least 10 years.

Thus, considering Blackwall is around the age when they would take the Long Walk anyway, not many people were left who'd really recognize him, and he's been gone a long time, so they may not be totally sure.

Any single one of these reasons...IMHO, is not enough. But all of them working, together, especially during a moment of crisis when someone shows up and says "I'm here to help", people might see what they want to see.

Maybe they weren't totally convinced, but like Mother Giselle said, you don't have to convince everyone, just make some of them doubt. But overall, I thought the whole questline made quite a lot of sense and I liked the twist.

[Chrys]

Given that the fake Calling was nearly driving them crazy, I think they're not in the best shape to feel out those things.

[Former_Fiend]

This bothered me at first, but thinking back on it I don't recall any point in the series where it was clearly and explicitly established that Grey Wardens can sense each other. There are a few times in Origins where you meet Grey Wardens(Riorden, Avernus) who don't instantly recognize you for what you are, for instance. 

[Milan92]

This bothered me at first, but thinking back on it I don't recall any point in the series where it was clearly and explicitly established that Grey Wardens can sense each other. There are a few times in Origins where you meet Grey Wardens(Riorden, Avernus) who don't instantly recognize you for what you are, for instance. 

 

Yeah, I think the taint is too weak within Grey Wardens to sense it like with darkspawn.

 

I also think that they assumed the inquisitor was aware wether Blackwall was truly a GW or not, so they just trusted their judgement.

[Br3admax]

No, Anders sensed the Taint within Stroud and his comrades, and within Carver. Duncan could sense the Taint within the Dalish Elf Warden, and it's not like they became less Tainted in the months that followed. 

[errantknight]

We can softpedal this with the fact Alistair is a ******.
He also started taking Lyrium again.

I haven't done a playthrough with Alistair yet, that will be for the one I'm doing now (sorry Hawke, nice to know ya ), but Alistair left the templar order before he was sworn in and never used Lyrium, although he could use the abilities. He didn't think Lyrium was necessary, but was used to let the chantry control the templars. If he's using it now, that's new and if he says he did before, that's a retcon.

[Former_Fiend]

No, Anders sensed the Taint within Stroud and his comrades, and within Carver. Duncan could sense the Taint within the Dalish Elf Warden, and it's not like they became less Tainted in the months that followed. 

 

Are you sure Anders and Duncan sensed the taint in Bethany/Carver/Dalish Warden and didn't just recognize the symptoms of being blight-sickened?

 

I was also under the impression that Anders didn't sense Stroud and his companions so much as he simply knew what route they were taking and heard movement when they approached.

[Chernaya]

I figured Alistair or whoever was in the warden's place was really distracted by The Calling. Because yeah, I'd think a senior warden of 10+ years should've been able to sense it, but there was a lot going on at the moment with him being hunted down and hearing voices, so I could kinda understand.

[Andres Hendrix]

It's an oversight, I myself did not like the twist; more so because I saw it coming.

Spoiler

In the rookery, you find out where Blackwall was during the fifth blight (it is a codex entry) and what he was doing. When you ask 'our Blackwall' what he did, he says that he was alone in Ferelden killing Darkspawn.  Contradicting what you find in the codex, which has a speech from Warden Blackwall explaining why they could not go to Ferelden to help fight the blight.