1051 réponses à ce sujet

[eyezonlyii]

But how does that apply to mods? Or mods regarding character sexuality.

 

Veeia - thank you! I truly had no idea.

 

 

when someone said offensive mods I immediately thought of White Isabela so that's what I was talking about!

definitely mods like that

[Thiefy]

Again, you stated that restoring the content would show bi and homosexual male fans that they matter. Tell me exactly why you think those fans matter less to Bioware.

I don't think they matter less.

 

I think they are disappointed at the choice Bioware made. I think supporting the restored content would show solidarity with them.

Or is there something else you are trying to get at with the "what I think Bioware thinks" angle?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Yeah but the backlash against those mods means only a total jag is gonna do it. Popular opinion matters, even if it won't stop the whitewashing mods, it contextualized them by making them shameful and bad, not just a thing that happens.

I know, but the people who use them couldn't care less. They were who I was referring to. 

 

There were mods making Alistair gay. I think there were two. They were fairly popular IIRC and there was no backlash. I guess that wasn't whitewashing because whitewashing is only when someone gay is made straight? Honestly asking here. I've never heard this term before and I have a gay brother. I guess we're too old for some of these terms or he's never said them around me.

Whitewashing is when someone takes a character who is a person of color and makes them white. 

 

As for the Homosexual Alistair mods, yeah let's not bring that up. The double standard in some people's reactions to mods is infuriating. Mods that make Alistair Theirin available for homosexual romances is seen as perfectly fine to some people, but those same people blow a gasket at the mods that make Samantha Traynor available for heterosexual romances. 

[eyezonlyii]

 

 

I know, but the people who use them couldn't care less. They were who I was referring to. 

 

Whitewashing is when someone takes a character who is a person of color and makes them white. 

 

As for the Homosexual Alistair mods, yeah let's not being that up. The double standard in some people's reactions to mods is infuriating. Mods that make Alistair Theirin available for homosexual romances is seen as perfectly fine to some people, but those same people blow a gasket at the mods that make Samantha Traynor available for heterosexual romances. 

 

it always comes down to the representation issue. the "it's ok because there's less for us" mentality.

[Monica21]

I don't think they matter less.

 

I think they are disappointed at the choice Bioware made. I think supporting the restored content would show solidarity with them.

Or is there something else you are trying to get at with the "what I think Bioware thinks" angle?

 

Well, then you might want to edit your post.

 

The choices Bioware made are because of lack of resources, and that's really it. And solidarity is, again, more hyperbole. You have romance options. You just don't have Cullen. And what on earth are you getting at with your last sentence?

[Greetsme]

Do you have any idea how videogame production process works? I mean, you obviously don't, but yeah. Wow.

the person responsible for animating romance scenes with Dorian was not the person building the battle system like lmao come on

I mean srsly this is a troll right?

I'm gonna go with that. Hahahah you're hilarious. Good one. Almost got me there.

 

Oh, I'm sorry, I never realized that you were Bioware staff, and have day to day communications with the developers.

You obviously don't have the faintest clue as to what it is that I am trying to convey.  Luckily I do.

[Grieving Natashina]

Edit: I'm going to just bow out here.    

[SurelyForth]

If those aspects of the character are never explored, then it is more of a fair game to expand on that since they aren't altering anything about the character but adding. It'd be like giving Cole a sexual orientation by having him become interested in guys and/or girls if

Spoiler

you make him more human in his personal quest.

 

I'm more referring to characters where those aspects are disclosed but then are changed for whatever reason. For example since you brought him up, Donald Duck. Donald's love interest is Daisy Duck. It's been this way since 1940. But say that for whatever reason, someone decides to change Donald to being interested to males. That person has altered an aspect of the character, which is not something I and I hope most people would approve of.

 

To bring it back to Cullen, regardless of their intentions for him Bioware promoted, sold, and handled Cullen as a heterosexual male. Changing that post-release is altering his character. It'd be different if handled like Kaidan where the ability to romance happens in different games. But if they did this to Cullen in DAI, it'd be like making Miranda interested in women in ME2 when she was promoted, sold, and handled as a heterosexual woman in that game.

 

Just because a person has only been seen in heterosexual relationships, or only engages in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex during a certain period of their life, does not make them straight. If Donald and Daisy broke up and Donald started seeing David Duck, that would not be an undermining of his character or a change of who he is. It just means he probably liked men and women all along, but was happy with Daisy.

 

And Cullen was not sold as a straight love interest, he was offered as a love interest to women only. I would argue that it is wonky to change the timeline, such that it is, in order to incorporate the bisexual content in DAI proper, but him not wanting to be involved with a man during the span of Inquisition does not mean he's straight and BW deciding to patch it in would not be a violation of anything because neither they nor Cullen have set his sexual boundaries in such a way to preclude an attraction to men.

[Thiefy]

Well, then you might want to edit your post.

 

The choices Bioware made are because of lack of resources, and that's really it. And solidarity is, again, more hyperbole. You have romance options. You just don't have Cullen. And what on earth are you getting at with your last sentence?

If someone belonging to that particular community thinks I should edit it, I'll be more than happy to.

 

Saying that wanting to support my fellow male Cullenites is somehow exaggerated is petty as hell. I've looked forward to his romance for a while - even when I was an Alistair girl back in 2009. Why is it so odd to think I empathize with them and their disappointment? Yes bisexual and homosexual men have romance options - and Cullen could have been one of them, on their preferred gender. As fans, it's something we could have shared in common.

 

Is there a problem with me saying I think it would be a GOOD thing if Bioware went in this direction? Because that's literally all I've been saying.

[Monica21]

If someone belonging to that particular community thinks I should edit it, I'll be more than happy to.

 

 

Okay. Last time. If you don't intend to say that Bioware thinks that bi and gay male fans don't matter, then don't say so. The lack of me being in "that particular community" has nothing to do what your statement. You said that Bioware, regardless of the romantic content that's already in the game specific to gay and bi male fans, needs to reincorporate Cullen's bi content to prove that bi and gay male fans "matter." Your words. If Bioware thought that fanbase didn't matter, then there wouldn't be any gay or bi content.

[Panda]

If mods want to mod him as bisexual, I think other player's opinions won't matter in the slightest to them. Otherwise the mods found to be offensive would have stopped years ago. 

 

The point is that I don't think those mods should be found offensive.

[dgcatanisiri]

The point is that I don't think those mods should be found offensive.

 

I think that in a perfect world, either should be offensive. BUT we do not live in that perfect world. Right now, headcanons and fanfic and fanart and, yes, mods are how non-straight consumers of all media are most likely to find that representation. These reinterpretations have a long history of being the only way to provide that representation, those mirrors. And even if you want to argue that, on the basis of Inquisition offering options and having a few references of side characters who are in same-sex relations, Inquisition is a shining beacon of representation, it is still a drop in the bucket compared to the overflowing amounts of straight and assumed straight characters throughout media.

 

Until that scale begins to balance, when media across the board is giving us non-straight characters of all types on a basis enough that they're entirely normalized, where people who aren't heterosexual or gender-conforming are not unsafe for the crime of existing, we're not in that perfect world of representation. So in the world we live in today, right now, yes, modding straight characters to be bi is different from the other way around. When that day of normalization comes, then these mods would be just as offensive either way, but we're a long way off from that day right now.

[Uhh.. Jonah]

my heart can't take this

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I think that in a perfect world, either should be offensive. BUT we do not live in that perfect world. Right now, headcanons and fanfic and fanart and, yes, mods are how non-straight consumers of all media are most likely to find that representation. These reinterpretations have a long history of being the only way to provide that representation, those mirrors. And even if you want to argue that, on the basis of Inquisition offering options and having a few references of side characters who are in same-sex relations, Inquisition is a shining beacon of representation, it is still a drop in the bucket compared to the overflowing amounts of straight and assumed straight characters throughout media.

 

Until that scale begins to balance, when media across the board is giving us non-straight characters of all types on a basis enough that they're entirely normalized, where people who aren't heterosexual or gender-conforming are not unsafe for the crime of existing, we're not in that perfect world of representation. So in the world we live in today, right now, yes, modding straight characters to be bi is different from the other way around. When that day of normalization comes, then these mods would be just as offensive either way, but we're a long way off from that day right now.

This is more or less my opinion on the matter. I understand why some people view it as hypocrisy since we're talking about Dragon Age which is one of the most LGBT inclusive media franchises in history, but if you took every LGBT character in all of fiction and compared it to all of the straight characters in all of fiction, the LGBT ones wouldn't even be a fraction of one percent. They probably wouldn't even be 0.001%. So, yes, taking away one of those fractional decimal points is inherently different than taking one from the super majority on the other hand. You've still got more straight characters, in fact, you have more straight characters than anyone could ever mod, or write slash fic about, or even headcanon as queer. You've got almost the entirety of human history and art to keep drawing from, but queer people don't. That's the difference and that's why people get touchy about the possible Dorian and Sera mods but don't have problems with the Alistair mod. You don't have to agree with it, but it's not an irrational distinction to make.

[Panda]

I think that in a perfect world, either should be offensive. BUT we do not live in that perfect world. Right now, headcanons and fanfic and fanart and, yes, mods are how non-straight consumers of all media are most likely to find that representation. These reinterpretations have a long history of being the only way to provide that representation, those mirrors. And even if you want to argue that, on the basis of Inquisition offering options and having a few references of side characters who are in same-sex relations, Inquisition is a shining beacon of representation, it is still a drop in the bucket compared to the overflowing amounts of straight and assumed straight characters throughout media.

 

Until that scale begins to balance, when media across the board is giving us non-straight characters of all types on a basis enough that they're entirely normalized, where people who aren't heterosexual or gender-conforming are not unsafe for the crime of existing, we're not in that perfect world of representation. So in the world we live in today, right now, yes, modding straight characters to be bi is different from the other way around. When that day of normalization comes, then these mods would be just as offensive either way, but we're a long way off from that day right now.

 

Well since the whole game and canon doesn't change with mods I don't think mods erase representation, they mostly alter game for those who decide the use them. I get that there isn't lot of representation but if someone wants to romance character in either way in the game with mod it doesn't bother me. However I think the white skin mods are different since the motivation is often rather racist instead of just wanting to romance your favorite character and remove "gating".

[WindFury]

Patch in bi Cullen, patch in bi Harding - everyone`s happy

[john-in-france]

I think that Bioware did a marvellous job of representing all tastes within the romances. 

They have also given us 22 different inquisitors (both sexes, all races and types) not even including the specialty skills. How you play those characters is your choice, as is the choice not to play certain ones. However Bioware has provided the option to do so.

 

I support representation of all romantic tastes in games, but that also includes heterosexual ones.

 

So:

 

I support a mod or DLC for bisexual Cullen.

I DO NOT support patching the game, as this would likely lead to issues with the heterosexual romance presently included.

 

Please remember that often Bioware records lines that are never used (Tali/Femshep and Thane/Maleshep), but that their final choice of story arc for that person may not use them. They may have logical reasons for this - future game or DLC that we are not aware of, so please be respectful with their choice.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Patch in bi Cullen, patch in bi Harding - everyone`s happy

 

I don't think this will happen, but Maker, I wish it would. The best of all possible worlds!

[DameGrace]

Until that scale begins to balance, when media across the board is giving us non-straight characters of all types on a basis enough that they're entirely normalized, where people who aren't heterosexual or gender-conforming are not unsafe for the crime of existing, we're not in that perfect world of representation. So in the world we live in today, right now, yes, modding straight characters to be bi is different from the other way around. When that day of normalization comes, then these mods would be just as offensive either way, but we're a long way off from that day right now.

 

I'm afraid that day will never come as long as there are people who hate people different from them just because the latter exist... and as long as there are people who think "it's okay because we are less represented, but it's not okay because you've had your share". 

[WindFury]

I don't think this will happen, but Maker, I wish it would. The best of all possible worlds!

 

Realistically i don`t think it will happen either, but, you know, Christmas. miracles and stuff. I do think it would be awesome.

 

I DO NOT support patching the game, as this would likely lead to issues with the heterosexual romance presently included.

 

Er, what kind of issues? I just can`t think of any? I don`t think anybody wants to remove any heterosexual romance content.

[ZawiszaTheBlack]

Guys, I'm following this thread all the time, reading all of your suggestions and opinions. DLC would be good, but if they ever made it - it will be really big and not cheap, I think. I remember this big storm after ME3 endings very well. I was one of these disappointed gamers. Ofc BioWare see there is a big issue with Cullen's bisexuality, but not that big like ME3 endings.
I'm not sure how long we will have to wait for mods or if we even ever get any, because Frostbite seem to be mod-unfriendly.
 

I'm afraid that day will never come as long as there are people who hate people different from them just because the latter exist...

I don't think it's about hatred against LGBT.

[DameGrace]

I don't think it's about hatred against LGBT.

 

Well, the person I was quoting mentioned 'where people who aren't heterosexual or gender-conforming are not unsafe for the crime of existing' describing the world we have now as opposed to the world we should have, that's why I said that as long as there are haters we won't get that perfect world. 

 

Personally, I prefer to be consistent. If I think that changing characters skin colour from white to non-white (I've seen the gorgeous art of a person who changed Disney characters' nationalities) is okay, then I should think the same for changing their skin colour from non-white to white. If I find making homosexual characters heterosexual offensive, then I should think the same for vice versa. And I do think so. 

 

As for Cullen - there is no confirmation yet that he was supposed to be bisexual or that he is bisexual. If someone makes the mod making him available to male characters - honestly, regardless of whether I find it offensive, it's not something to rant about. After all, people have a right to wish for something.