1051 réponses à ce sujet

[Biotic_Warlock]

Is it me or have things been derailing slightly?
More Cullen please
Btw I love his singing voice... Mmm.
I'd love it if this was patched in. Not just for the sake of it: it makes sense too.

[daveliam]

I understand the situation and implications about Sera and I absolutely see no reason to make her bisexual, but that's not the point I was trying to make. If Bioware did make both Cullen and Solas bisexual, there would be only one straight male who could be romanced. What I am getting from your arguments is that because there are lots of heterosexuals, it's not so bad if they lose some. That strikes me as really wrong, though perhaps that's not what you're implying. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

You see where I am getting at though? The problem with equal representation in the media for minorities is that it then creates a new inequality in favor of formerly disenfranchised people. And it doesn’t actually solve the problem, because there’s no amount of “make-it-up-to-them” possible to compensate for all those years the minorities were excluded.

 

Let me make it clear that I really admire Bioware for trying to appeal to various demographics as much as they can. But I believe that more representation of one group shouldn't be happening in spite of another, even if they happen to be the majority. That's not the kind of solution we should aim for.

 

Two things:

 

1.)  I'm not in favor of it for Cullen.  I think I've been very clear about that.  I do however think it's a different thing to remove the one lesbian from the game versus removing one out of four straight guys.  It's not about romance.  It's about representation.  It's about representation related to romance.  Not romance options themselves to me.  If Cullen were the only straight guy but there were three other lesbians in the inner circle besides Sera, I'd be saying the exact same thing, but in reverse. 

2.)  I'm not sure what you mean by "The problem with equal representation in the media for minorities is that it then creates a new inequality in favor of formerly disenfranchised people."  Equal representation is just that.  It's equal.  There's no inequality.  Equality for minorities does not create inequality.  It creates equality.  Unless I'm understanding you wrong.  The formerly favored group has less proportionally than before, but it doesn't create inequality. 

 

daveliam disagrees agrees with me? That just made my day.

 

@Baerdface: While I did kind of agree with you in some of your previous posts, you're just making yourself look like a jackass now. Just stop, please.

 

Yours sincerely, a straight guy.

 

I know, right?  Holy ****.  The other day I agreed with Br3admax and I've actually been on the same page with steelcan lately too.  Who am I?  Are we all becoming more moderate?  I think I need to lay down....... 

[sandalisthemaker]

As long as LBGT characters are a result of Bioware's creative expression and not to tick checklists to satisfy tumblr I'm fine with it too. All I care is that the writers get to freely express themselves without being put into boxes by zealous whiners. It would be disingenuous and fake.

 

Alright, time for round two I suppose.

 

I feel the same way Baerdface, except for straight characters.

 

As long as straight characters are a result of BioWare's creative expression and not to tick checklists to satisfy people. All I care is that the writers get to freely express themselves without being put into boxes by zealous whiners.  It would also be disingenuous and fake.

[BiscuitieKai]

I enjoy a good debate and actually seek out other opinions when I don't understand them.  What I don't abide is when people make no attempt to understand the other side and make dismissive and rude comments to people trying to hold a civil conversation. 

 

Now, why don't you explain to me why you are opposed to or in favor of them including this cut content in the game.  So far, I've gathered that it's because you feel victimized in some way?  Or was that not your attempt at civil conversation? 

Great what do you consider a good debate, a debate that in the end i will abide by your opinion? 

clearly you havent read all the posts and i wont judge you, i "understand", 
 

i also understand that some dont consider what the developers intended for the character, or rather its no longer a matter of intentions. its a matter of the developer cutting the Cullen Bi angle in the final release because it doesnt fit in their whole perspective. And now you "want" to return a cut content because you "want it" breaking the intend sexual preference of a character that is consistent in his sexual preference. it like telling me anybody can be Bi and cut the sexual preference stuff

go outside and socialize in a real world a bit. Can you make a straight or Bi or gay or trans into something else??? and dont tell me this is a game a fantasy stuff..yea right a game that is trying to make a more realistic characters

 

 

Edit: gave all my points same as yours, dont need to be aggressive on me i never did sort of
 

[Isaidlunch]

Look what I found on twitter. 

 

Thank you, guess that settles it.

 

Though apparently, there's Manquisitor lines about Solas kissing him in the Fade. Maybe someone should start a "Restore Bisexual Solas" thread?

[sandalisthemaker]

Thank you, guess that settles it.

 

Though apparently, there's Manquisitor lines about Solas kissing him in the Fade. Maybe someone should start a "Restore Bisexual Solas" thread?

 

It is a shame that gay/bisexual content is constantly the thing that gets cut due to time constraints.

[daveliam]

Great what do you consider a good debate, a debate that in the end i will abide by your opinion? 

clearly you havent read all the posts and i wont judge you, i "understand", 
 

i also understand that some dont consider what the developers intended for the character, or rather its no longer a matter of intentions. its a matter of the developer cutting the Cullen Bi angle in the final release because it doesnt fit it in their whole perspective. And now you "want" to return a cut content because you "want it" breaking the intend sexual preference of a character that is consistent in his sexual preference. it like telling me anybody can be Bi and cut the sexual preference stuff

go outside and social in a real world a bit. Can you make a straight or Bi or gay or trans into something else??? and dont tell me this is a game a fantasy stuff..yea right a game that is trying to make a more realistic characters

 

HA!

 

Yeah, I'm the one who didn't read, as you seem to think that I'm in favor of returning the content. 

 

It's okay.  I understand.  I also understand that you feel the need to be condescending instead of polite.  We're done.  Thanks though.

[Baerdface]

In a game franchise as big as this, I feel like both should be reasons.
Fair representation in a game which so much dialogue and story (so to speak) is important. But anything rushed wouldnt be effective at that.

 

Forcing a certain type of writing doesn't end well since the writer tends to overdo and focus too much on the point that he is pushed to express. I hope people don't want shallow underdeveloped characters that are just there to be paraded around to represent whatever they represent.

 

Only thing I'm interested is good writing, I don't care what they happen to represent. As long as it is not the only reason the character exists and it is not his/her defining quality. I dont identify with characters based on their sexual orientation or whatever, I identify with them based on their personalities, how they express their beliefs, moral values and if they have interesting things to say.

 

This obsession with one character trait is really weird, people just seem to objectify the characters in this game as if they're only there to be your sex toys. You guys discussing your romance options sounds like you're discussing which brand phones you like.

 

 

Alright, time for round two I suppose.

 

I feel the same way Baerdface, except for straight characters.

 

As long as straight characters are a result of BioWare's creative expression and not to tick checklists to satisfy people. All I care is that the writers get to freely express themselves without being put into boxes by zealous whiners.  It would also be disingenuous and fake.

 

 

That didn't have the intended ironic effect as you probably hoped, sorry. Because it doesn't make sense in the context.

[Bunansas]

What bothers me about this whole situation is the reason Cullen's romance got cut. 

 

In Mass Effect 2, Miranda Lawson had romance lines for a Fem!Shep, and Thane also had romance lines for a Man!Shep. Bioware didn't use the lines because they decided Miranda and Thane are straight. That's a good reason to cut content.

 

Cullen's romance only got cut because of time restraints. Not because his writer decided he was straight,  or because being bi didn't fit his narrative. That's not a good reason. 

 

I understand the fact that Bioware is a business, and they care about profits first, so to deliver the game in time they cut stuff out. But now that the game is out, why don't they just patch it? It probably won't be that expensive. 

[sandalisthemaker]

Don't get me started on Solas, though.  

 

I'm not going to go into it in depth, but they said that Solas was for straight female elves only because of "super" story reasons. 

 

Lots of people assumed that it would be because he wanted elven babies or something. But that's not what his story was about. The only story reason to restrict him to elves was due to the vallaslin thing. Being a female elf had nothing to do with it. His romance could have worked just as well with a male elf PC. If they didn't have time to make him bisexual, the same way they didn't have time to make Cullen bisexual, why not simply make him a LI for male elves only?  It's not like they didn't already have enough straight men in the companion roster.   Why default to heterosexuality is my question.

 

Not a huge deal. Just food for thought.

[Phate Phoenix]

Spoiler

Look what I found on twitter. 

 

Ah, a shame.   Good to have it said, though.

 

Still pullin' for a gay/bi KISA for the next game, though! You guys can get your dwarf KISA, and I can get my ace Tal Vashoth. 

[eyezonlyii]

Yet they had all the time to make the Iron Bull Romanceable by everyone.

From what I read, that was a personal mission because one of the animators wanted to romance bull and couldn't with whatever character he was using, so he personally went back and redid all of bull's scenes. Not quite the same.

[Melca36]

What bothers me about this whole situation is the reason Cullen's romance got cut. 

 

In Mass Effect 2, Miranda Lawson had romance lines for a Fem!Shep, and Thane also had romance lines for a Man!Shep. Bioware didn't use the lines because they decided Miranda and Thane are straight. That's a good reason to cut content.

 

Cullen's romance only got cut because of time restraints. Not because his writer decided he was straight,  or because being bi didn't fit his narrative. That's not a good reason. 

 

I understand the fact that Bioware is a business, and they care about profits first, so to deliver the game in time they cut stuff out. But now that the game is out, why don't they just patch it? It probably won't be that expensive. 

 

 

They won't do it because it would cause a domino affect. People would want Sera and Cassandra Bi.  

 

If modders want to do it fine...but as of now Cullen is fine the way he is.   We can't always get what we want in this world. Its how it is.

 

I romanced Dorian with a male.   if people have issues romancing the opposite gender...then its on them. The writers should not be forced to cater to ANYONE's needs/demands

[Sizzle]

Yet they had all the time to make the Iron Bull Romanceable by everyone. 

And what? Cullen (along with Solas) was added as a romance option much later than all the other romance options.

[Bunansas]

They won't do it because it would cause a domino affect. People would want Sera and Cassandra Bi.  

 

If modders want to do it fine...but as of now Cullen is fine the way he is.   We can't always get what we want in this world. Its how it is.

 

I romanced Dorian with a male.   if people have issues romancing the opposite gender...then its on them. The writers should not be forced to cater to ANYONE's needs/demands

But Sera and Cassandra are lesbian / straight, respectively. It's a part of their character. 

Cullen didn't turn out straight in the final game because his writer said so, It was simply because they didn't have the time to make his romance for males. 

There's a clear difference between these two situations. 

[daveliam]

To be fair, we don't know why Cullen was cut.  We have two different things to go on:

 

1.)  At GaymerX, it was said that character was going to be bisexual and they couldn't get the story right and went with him/her being straight.

2.)  There are anonymous dev tweets that state the only reason why Cullen wasn't bisexual is because of time constraints.

 

If it's the former, I'm totally fine with it.  I'd rather not see them force it with a character who they think it doesn't work with.  If it's the latter, then I'm just disappointed that it's the s/s content that gets deprioritized.  I understand why, but it doesn't mean that I won't be disappointed.

 

If the former is Solas and the latter is Cullen, then I'm really disappointed because it meant that they made the decision against s/s content twice in favor of offering straight women double the content of everyone else.  Again, I'm fine with the way things turned out, but I'm a little disappointed is all.  And I don't anything wrong with discussing it on the official forums.  Seems, oh I don't know, appropriate, for some reason......

[Monica21]

 

Cullen's romance only got cut because of time restraints. Not because his writer decided he was straight,  or because being bi didn't fit his narrative. That's not a good reason. 

 

I understand the fact that Bioware is a business, and they care about profits first, so to deliver the game in time they cut stuff out. But now that the game is out, why don't they just patch it? It probably won't be that expensive. 

 

I'd take that tweet with a giant load of salt, considering the "confirmation" about time constraints is from a former employee who may or may not have been very involved in that decision making process. And frankly, when you've already been given two extensions by your parent company and you still don't have time for bi content for a single character, then that's an excellent reason not to do it. There's a lot more involved in DAI than who you decide to romance.

[daveliam]

From what I read, that was a personal mission because one of the animators wanted to romance bull and couldn't with whatever character he was using, so he personally went back and redid all of bull's scenes. Not quite the same.

 

And I am eternally grateful to Epler for this because otherwise my gay dwarves would only have had one option. 

[Isaidlunch]

Yet they had all the time to make the Iron Bull Romanceable by everyone. 

 

Not to start a flame war, I know there are people who like Blackwall, but it boggles my mind that they made him one of only two straight female romances before the extra year. Blackwall and Iron Bull with no Cullen at all, these forums would be on fire!

[Baerdface]

All this stuff is very important since the game is clearly a dating simulator and not an action RPG where you murder demons from hell for 80 hours. 

[Sartoz]

Cullen is so straight.. he'll react like Dorian if you try to change him...

[daveliam]

All this stuff is very important since the game is clearly a dating simulator and not an action RPG where you murder demons from hell for 80 hours. 

 

This is literally one of the least convincing arguments.  Romance content is one of the things that Bioware is known for.  So, uh, yeah, it's important to many people.  Bully for you if you don't care either way.  But there are zero people in here asking for it to be dating sim.  In fact, the only person who brought that up was you.  So maybe you don't fully understand what Bioware games are like.