Okay, so what if they wanted to write a cast brimming with gay and bisexual characters? Like, they legit wanted to and flat out said so.
Your thoughts?
Same as someone setting out to write a cast with whites, asians, blacks, mexicans just for the sake of it.
Disingenuous and forced.
Because it raises quite a few issues. For example, why was the female romance for Cullen prioritised over the male one, even without Cullen straight women would have 3 romances and bi ones 5. Also imagine if Cullen was a gay romance in DA:I instead of a straight one, then it's found that dialogue exists in the game for Cullen and a femqusiitor and Bioware then stated Cullen was made gay because they didn't finish the scene for a female character. How annoyed do you think people would be?
Right, I get your point, but it wouldn't really make sense for him to be gay in DA:I since in DA:O he clearly showed no interest in a male!Amell / Surana. Apart from that, if Cullen WAS re-written to be made a gay romance option, I wouldn't have much trouble with that. I'd just roll some smashing rump of a male and romance the Rutherford out of him. Literally.
Because it raises quite a few issues. For example, why was the female romance for Cullen prioritised over the male one, even without Cullen straight women would have 3 romances and bi ones 5. Also imagine if Cullen was a gay romance in DA:I instead of a straight one, then it's found that dialogue exists in the game for Cullen and a femqusiitor and Bioware then stated Cullen was made gay because they didn't finish the scene for a female character. How annoyed do you think people would be?
It was likely prioritized because there's already established canon for Cullen liking girls. Personally, I think that making him bi would be asking the players to head canon that he really did like dudes but just wasn't interested in the male Warden. Making him gay, well. I think a lot of people, including gay males, would be confused by a suddenly gay Cullen instead of straight women being just annoyed. That would be a complete retcon and asking people to just ignore what happened in Origins.
The difference is that Cullen has a history of being attracted to/awkwardly flirting with only human and elven women (I try not to use the terms male and female when talking about people). So if he was suddenly gay then that would be be even more of an issue for me (though not going to lie, I would still romance his fennec boa off).
Bi, not gay.
Anders also only talked about his atraction to women in Awakening, but it still didn't make him less bisexual in DAII.
I love that I was thanking the mature and thoughtful posters of this thread right in between posts by many of the ones i was talking about making fellatio jokes. <333 you guys
Two things:
1.) I'm not in favor of it for Cullen. I think I've been very clear about that. I do however think it's a different thing to remove the one lesbian from the game versus removing one out of four straight guys. It's not about romance. It's about representation. It's about representation related to romance. Not romance options themselves to me. If Cullen were the only straight guy but there were three other lesbians in the inner circle besides Sera, I'd be saying the exact same thing, but in reverse.
2.) I'm not sure what you mean by "The problem with wanting more representation in the media for minorities is that it can create a new inequality in favor of the formerly disenfranchised people." Equal representation is just that. It's equal. There's no inequality. Equality for minorities does not create inequality. It creates equality. Unless I'm understanding you wrong. The formerly favored group has less proportionally than before, but it doesn't create inequality.
1. In that case, I misunderstood.
2. English not being my first language, I sadly mess it up sometimes. See sentence in bold. Do I make more sense now? 
I was bringing it up because there are plenty of loud fans who say they want more representation, but don't actually strive for equality. If Bioware gives in to these fans, it can create a new inequality for the majority group. That was the message was I trying to convey. 
Same as someone setting out to write a cast with whites, asians, blacks, mexicans just for the sake of it.
Disingenuous and forced.
Nope.
The cast full of gay is their artistic vision in this hypothetical. You'd have to deal with it because, by your own criteria, they are writing what they want to write.
I was responding to a hypothetical post in which Cullen was written as gay this game.Bi, not gay.
Anders also only talked about his atraction to women in Awakening, but it still didn't make him less bisexual in DAII.
Bi, not gay.
Anders also only talked about his atraction to women in Awakening, but it still didn't make him less bisexual in DAII.
Something makes me think that Awakening Anders was also bisexual, but I can't remember what it was. I just remember it being pretty clear to my female Warden that, even though he was flirting with her, that he also liked guys.
The difference is that Cullen has a history of being attracted to/awkwardly flirting with only human and elven women (I try not to use the terms male and female when talking about people). So if he was suddenly gay then that would be be even more of an issue for me (though not going to lie, I would still romance his fennec boa off).
Here's the thing though, awkwardness doesn't mean attraction necessarily. The templars seems 'largely' and male organisation and Cullen is himself a dude. In DAO he's young and new to the organisation. It's not an unreasonable guess that Cullen is simply more at ease talking with men then woman. Same reason that some 'straight' men will still sleep with other men but will only form a commitment with woman, because to them it's less awkward for them. The fact that he runs away in DA:O could mean he feels so awkward talking to women when there are flirts going around because he's not interested and it makes him uncomfortable. People just assume that means he's straight.
It's all speculation, ALL of it. But we do know that Bioware fully intended Cullen to be bi for DA:I sooooo, yeah.
Nope.
The cast full of gay is their artistic vision in this hypothetical. You'd have to deal with it because, by your own criteria, they are writing what they want to write.
So the actual situation doesn't represent the point you're trying to make so you make up hypothetical situations.
The real situation that they didn't set out to write that kind of cast for the sake of it, they set out to write interesting characters in a fantasy RPG. And lots of jimmies got rustled because some characters weren't written with that artistic vision in mind.
Oh the pleasure was all mineI love that I was thanking the mature and thoughtful posters of this thread right in between posts by many of the ones i was talking about making fellatio jokes. <333 you guys
Something makes me think that Awakening Anders was also bisexual, but I can't remember what it was. I just remember it being pretty clear to my female Warden that, even though he was flirting with her, that he also liked guys.
Your memory is wrong, then. Anders shows no sign of same sex atraction in Awakening.
Here's the thing though, awkwardness doesn't mean attraction necessarily. The templars seems 'largely' and male organisation and Cullen is himself a dude. In DAO he's young and new to the organisation. It's not an unreasonable guess that Cullen is simply more at ease talking with men then woman. Same reason that some 'straight' men will still sleep with other men but will only form a commitment with woman, because to them it's less awkward for them. The fact that he runs away in DA:O could mean he feels so awkward talking to women when their are flirts because he's not interested and it makes him uncomfortable. People just assume that means he's straight.
It's all speculation, ALL of it. But we do know that Bioware fully intended Cullen to be bi for DA:I sooooo, yeah.
In the Broken Circle quest he says something like "being taunted with the only thing he's ever wanted" when seeing the female mage Warden while being trapped. That's pretty clearly not just awkward flirting. It's a guy who is legit attracted to a female. He may be young, but that doesn't mean he's unaware.
So the actual situation doesn't represent the point you're trying to make so you make up hypothetical situations.
The real situation that they didn't set out to write that kind of cast for the sake of it, they set out to write interesting characters in a fantasy RPG.
Yes, and if those interesting characters all happened to be bisexual or gay, or trans, no matter what, you and many others would still consider it pandering. No matter how complex they were, no matter how much or how little they talked about or displayed their sexuality. Correct?
Not saying that's not a valid read on the situation, but probably the most unlikely one. However, if there could be a way for a. Character to explore their sexuality in game (without it being due to the PC's amazing amazingness) then I could be down for that. Something like a super slow burn, let's take it slow because I've never done this before type dealHere's the thing though, awkwardness doesn't mean attraction necessarily. The templars seems 'largely' and male organisation and Cullen is himself a dude. In DAO he's young and new to the organisation. It's not an unreasonable guess that Cullen is simply more at ease talking with men then woman. Same reason that some 'straight' men will still sleep with other men but will only form a commitment with woman, because to them it's less awkward for them. The fact that he runs away in DA:O could mean he feels so awkward talking to women when their are flirts because he's not interested and it makes him uncomfortable. People just assume that means he's straight.
It's all speculation, ALL of it. But we do know that Bioware fully intended Cullen to be bi for DA:I sooooo, yeah.
Something makes me think that Awakening Anders was also bisexual, but I can't remember what it was. I just remember it being pretty clear to my female Warden that, even though he was flirting with her, that he also liked guys.
Yes, and if those interesting characters all happened to be bisexual or gay, or trans, no matter what, you and many others would still consider it pandering. No matter how complex they were, no matter how much or how little they talked about or displayed their sexuality. Correct?
You still didn't read the point where I said that I only care about good writing.
Here's the thing though, awkwardness doesn't mean attraction necessarily. The templars seems 'largely' and male organisation and Cullen is himself a dude. In DAO he's young and new to the organisation. It's not an unreasonable guess that Cullen is simply more at ease talking with men then woman. Same reason that some 'straight' men will still sleep with other men but will only form a commitment with woman, because to them it's less awkward for them. The fact that he runs away in DA:O could mean he feels so awkward talking to women when there are flirts going around because he's not interested and it makes him uncomfortable. People just assume that means he's straight.
It's all speculation, ALL of it. But we do know that Bioware fully intended Cullen to be bi for DA:I sooooo, yeah.
There were women in the templar order.. So I REALLY doubt that was the case. And what makes you think it was fully intended? 2 dialogue lines? Smh..
EDIT: Also, what makes you think he was uncomfortable with a fem!mage flirting with him? Maybe he wasn't used to it, considering he was pretty young in DA:O. Maybe he is just shy. Doesn't really make him bi by running away, does it?
Same as someone setting out to write a cast with whites, asians, blacks, mexicans just for the sake of it.
Disingenuous and forced.
Ah, so it's a case of "You should write what you want to write and not be forced to write what other people want. Unless you want to write what I don't want, in which case you should be forced to write what I want."
Great to know.
You still didn't read the point where I said that I only care about good writing.
Unless that good writing is all bisexual and gay people in which case it's disingenuous and forced?
There were women in the templar order.. So I REALLY doubt that was the case. And what makes you think it was fully intended? 2 dialogue lines? Smh..
It's not only two dialogue lines. We also have lines of Dorian and Cassandra commenting on Cullen and the (male) Inquisitor's romance.
You still didn't read the point where I said that I only care about good writing.
I'll hold you to that if BioWare ever decided to offer more gay romance than straight. However unlikely that may be.
There were women in the templar order.. So I REALLY doubt that was the case. And what makes you think it was fully intended? 2 dialogue lines? Smh..
Which is why I said "largely" and not 'only'. I can't remember a single female templar in DA:O. There were more male than female templars in DA2 and I can only remember 1 female templar in DA:I, there is likley more though.
We have romance dialogue between Mqusitor and Cullen. We have Dorian and Cassandra's dialogue about the romance too.
We have QA saying it was cut only because some of the cutscenes weren't finished it time
We have what Bioware said during the GaymerX panel
and probably more if I look back through all the pages. Someone mentioned Bioware said something idk
Ah, so it's a case of "You should write what you want to write and not be forced to write what other people want. Unless you want to write what I don't want, in which case you should be forced to write what I want."
Great to know.
Unless that good writing is all bisexual and gay people in which case it's disingenuous and forced?
You're putting words into my mouth. I never said that I don't like LBGT characters, all I said was that they should be the result of free creative expression instead of ticking off checklists to pander to people. Please learn to read, seriously.
All I want is interesting characters, I don't care if it's gay/straight/bi.
You're putting words into my mouth. I never said that I don't like LBGT characters, all I said was that they should be the result of free creative expression instead of ticking off checklists to pander to people. Please learn to read, seriously.
Yep. I did read that you said that. And then clarified that you meant this only if the majority of the characters are straight. I'm not putting words in your mouth. That's what you said. You might not like seeing them repeated back to you, but I didn't make it up. Sorry.
Ce sujet est fermé
Retour en haut