1051 réponses à ce sujet

[eyezonlyii]

Which is why I said "largely" and not 'only'.

 

We have romance dialogue between Mqusitor and Cullen. We have Dorian and Cassandra's dialogue about the romance too.

 

We have QA saying it was cut only because some of the cutscenes weren't finished it time

 

We have what Bioware said during the GaymerX panel

 

and probably more if I look back through all the pages. Someone mentioned Bioware said something idk

I think a valiant effort was given, but ultimately they decided (for whatever reason) not to include it. Of course it sucks, but on the bright side, this opens up the door for a new character to take his place.

[Biotic_Warlock]

I think a valiant effort was given, but ultimately they decided (for whatever reason) not to include it. Of course it sucks, but on the bright side, this opens up the door for a new character to take his place.

Cullen MkII

Om nom nom

[Spirit Keeper]

I think a valiant effort was given, but ultimately they decided (for whatever reason) not to include it. Of course it sucks, but on the bright side, this opens up the door for a new character to take his place.

See, idk. I mentioned my concerns about LGBT romances around a year ago. Bioware even replied to my thread and we still only got Dorian and Iron Bull,, the same recycled stereotypes. We could have had Cullen yet they didn't feel this was important and decided to prioritse the female romance for Cullen and simply lock the male one away. Then they keep it hidden. None of that gives me much confidence.

[veeia]

I'm laughing so hard at this idea that any gay characters in Bioware could be the result of the poor writers who only wanted the artistic freedom to pursue only the interesting value of straight men but had to pander to the ~gay agenda~ or whateve.

Pretty sure it's the exact opposite. I imagine Dorian is the kind of character Gaider has wanted to write for years, but had to wait for the ~straight agenda~ to accept it.

[Grieving Natashina]

This has been a great conversation to come back to, and I'm honestly surprised the thread is still open.  Some decent points all around though.

 

Coffee anyone?

 

[Sizzle]

It's not only two dialogue lines. We also have lines of Dorian and Cassandra commenting on Cullen and the (male) Inquisitor's romance. 

Wow, awesome. 4 dialogue lines then..

Seriously, let's just drop this topic, it isn't really going to make Cullen bi by complaining about what gender he prefers. At least he is a romance option. 

Ugh, this thread makes me want to find out who the modder that found the dialogue lines was and show him what s/he caused. If the dialogue lines haven't been found then all this bull****erry wouldn't have happened..

[Baerdface]

Yep.  I did read that you said that.  And then clarified that you meant this only if the majority of the characters are straight.  I'm not putting words in your mouth.  That's what you said.  You might not like seeing them repeated back to you, but I didn't make it up.  Sorry.

 

Where I said that there should be a majority of straight characters? I never said or even allured to "majority of the characters having to be straight for LBGT being ok". So please quote it.

 

Also, I'm gonna spell out my point for you like to a toddler since you don't seem to get it:

 

A character that is only defined by his sexuality and is only there for the sake of satisfying a certain group of people without any other reason of being there and wouldn't have been there if not for that group's satisfaction IS a result of pandering and not of creative expression.

 

A character that is complicated, well fleshed out and his sexuality is NOT the only reason that defines him and he's not just there to satisfy a certain group of people is a result of creative expression and nobody has the right to have a problem with that kind of character. That is not pandering, that is good writing.

 

It's weird to see people complain about representation in the most progressive game franchise so far.

 

Learn the difference.

 

If you guys want shitty characters with no personality and only one character trait, good for you. So far Bioware has none of those and good for them. The writers know their strengths and work towards them. If Cullen being bi didn't work out as well as they planned I'm glad they cut it instead of half ass it.

[veeia]

Why on earth would you blame the modder and not Bioware or the posters on the BSN for this thread?

[sandalisthemaker]

Pretty sure it's the exact opposite. I imagine Dorian is the kind of character Gaider has wanted to write for years, but had to wait for the ~straight agenda~ to accept it.

 

YOU WIN.

[Monica21]

See, idk. I mentioned my concerns about LGBT romances around a year ago. Bioware even replied to my thread and we still only got Dorian and Iron Bull,, the same recycled stereotypes. We could have had Cullen yet they didn't feel this was important and decided to prioritse the female romance for Cullen and simply lock the male one away. Then they keep it hidden. None of that gives me much confidence.

 

Oh my god. Seriously, prioritizing the female romance makes more sense because there's already established canon for that. It's unfortunate that you don't like that.

[Sizzle]

Why not just roll a femquisitor and romance Cullen that way? This is coming from a straight female who is currently romancing Mr. Mustache

[SpiritMuse]

Here's the thing though, awkwardness doesn't mean attraction necessarily. The templars seems 'largely' and male organisation and Cullen is himself a dude. In DAO he's young and new to the organisation. It's not an unreasonable guess that Cullen is simply more at ease talking with men then woman. Same reason that some 'straight' men will still sleep with other men but will only form a commitment with woman, because to them it's less awkward for them. The fact that he runs away in DA:O could mean he feels so awkward talking to women when there are flirts going around because he's not interested and it makes him uncomfortable. People just assume that means he's straight.
 
It's all speculation, ALL of it. But we do know that Bioware fully intended Cullen to be bi for DA:I sooooo, yeah.

Not unreasonable, no. However, there are also mages gossiping about how he apparently has a crush on the female warden-to-be. It seems unlikely they'd say that if he reacted to every flirty female that way. So in this context his actions would indicate attraction again.

[Grieving Natashina]

Why not just roll a femquisitor and romance Cullen that way? This is coming from a straight female who is currently romancing Mr. Mustache

Gender-bending is exactly what I'm going to do with both Dorian and Cass.  

[sandalisthemaker]

Where I said that there should be a majority of straight characters? I never said or even allured to "majority of the characters having to be straight for LBGT being ok". So please quote it.

 

Also, I'm gonna spell out my point for you like to a toddler since you don't seem to get it:

 

A character that is only defined by his sexuality and is only there for the sake of satisfying a certain group of people without any other reason of being there and wouldn't have been there if not for that group's satisfaction IS a result of pandering and not of creative expression.

 

A character that is complicated, well fleshed out and his sexuality is NOT the only reason that defines him and he's not just there to satisfy a certain group of people is a result of creative expression and nobody has the right to have a problem with that kind of character. That is not pandering, that is good writing.

 

Learn the difference.

 

If you guys want shitty characters with no personality and only one character trait, good for you. So far Bioware has none of those and good for them. The writers know their strengths and work towards them. If Cullen being bi didn't work out as well as they planned I'm glad they cut it instead of half ass it.

 

How ironic then that Cullen being bisexual would not have changed him in the slightest. He'd still be the same person. With the same personality. He would just be into guys as well as women. If you thought he was well written as a straight guy, why would making him bisexual suddenly mean BioWare was pandering? When all the writing would have stayed the same?

[veeia]

Oh my god. Seriously, prioritizing the female romance makes more sense because there's already established canon for that. It's unfortunate that you don't like that.

Sure, but why not human male and female vs human and elf female? I get that its a time issue, and I get that they wanted to make sure there was female content because of that, but it's not the only solution. Shrug.

[daveliam]

Where I said that there should be a majority of straight characters? I never said or even allured to "majority of the characters having to be straight for LBGT being ok". So please quote it.

 

 

Okay, so I'll just leave this conversation here for you and then I'll stop speaking with you because you can't seem to carry on a conversation without insults. 

 

So far all my points were that characters shouldn't be defined only by their sexuality and sexuality shouldn't be the only reason for their existence. Writers write a character, he happens to be straight/bi/gay, it's all good as long as it is not the other way around. So yes, pandering in any capacity is bad.

 

Only thing that needs to be focused on is good writing and all the complexity and diversity will be the natural result of it.

Okay, so what if they wanted to write a cast brimming with gay and bisexual characters?  Like, they legit wanted to and flat out said so. 

 

Your thoughts?

Same as someone setting out to write a cast with whites, asians, blacks, mexicans just for the sake of it.

 

Disingenuous and forced.

 

So to summarize:

 

You:  Characters should be written without the sexuality being their only point (fair point).  Writers should write what they want to write and not to tick off boxes.

sandal:  Okay, but what if they want to write a majority of gay and lesbian characters legitimately.

You:  Well then that would be disingenuous and forced because it would be 'just for the sake of it'.

 

Basically, the only way that the majority of the characters can be gay is if it's to "tick off boxes"?  Right?  Because if they set out to write gay characters because they want to write gay characters it must be because it's disingenuous.  That's what you said. 

 

And, with that, I'm done.  Peace everyone.  I'll see if the thread is still open when I get back tomorrow!

[MelissaGT]

This has been a great conversation to come back to, and I'm honestly surprised the thread is still open.  Some decent points all around though.

 

Coffee anyone?

 

 

So I just saw this and felt I needed to add that last night I totally made about 3 gallons of homemade coffee liqueur...it came out fantabulous...   

[Monica21]

Sure, but why not human male and female vs human and elf female? I get that its a time issue, and I get that they wanted to make sure there was female content because of that, but it's not the only solution. Shrug.

 

You mean why not make Cullen bi only for humans? Probably because he also flirts with a female elf mage in Origins.

[eyezonlyii]

Sure, but why not human male and female vs human and elf female? I get that its a time issue, and I get that they wanted to make sure there was female content because of that, but it's not the only solution. Shrug.

well, because he only flirted with human and elven women, so cutting off elven women to add human men wouldn't make sense. Honestly I wanted Carrol more than Cullen, but then he became a red Templar monster thing. In fact, I killed him so fast, I didn't even know he was there until the quest dialogue popped up telling me he was dead.

[Baerdface]

How ironic then that Cullen being bisexual would not have changed him in the slightest. He'd still be the same person. With the same personality. He would just be into guys as well as women. If you thought he was well written as a straight guy, why would making him bisexual suddenly mean BioWare was pandering? When all the writing would have stayed the same?

 

Depends on the reason why they cut it, I'm not aware of it. I assume they couldn't finish the general romance arc.

[Grieving Natashina]

So I just saw this and felt I needed to add that last night I totally made about 3 gallons of homemade coffee liqueur...it came out fantabulous...   

Ah, very nice.  

[MelissaGT]

Why not just roll a femquisitor and romance Cullen that way? This is coming from a straight female who is currently romancing Mr. Mustache

 

I named that mustache "Stephen..." it is amazing and he wouldn't be Dorian without it! 

[Monica21]

So I just saw this and felt I needed to add that last night I totally made about 3 gallons of homemade coffee liqueur...it came out fantabulous...   

 

I have no idea how to do this, so all I want to know is if I can have some of what you made.

[Grieving Natashina]

I have no idea how to do this, so all I want to know is if I can have some of what you made.

I don't drink any more, but even I think this thread needs alcohol.  

[Sizzle]

Why on earth would you blame the modder and not Bioware or the posters on the BSN for this thread?

Why should I blame Bioware?? It's their game, they make a character bi? I'm cool with that. Gay? That's fine. Straight? Sure. In the end Cullen came out as straight, due to this reason and that reason.

I don't really see your point? Modders are the ones who find these files. And I'm not saying the modder did anything wrong. S/he probably didn't see all that coming.