1051 réponses à ce sujet

[AWTEW]

No thanks..

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Someone give me a petition to sign.

[daveliam]

[OPENS MOUTH]

 

[CLOSES MOUTH]

 

[OPENS MOUTH AGAIN]

 

I--I don't know what to say. On one hand, I want this very much, and I'd love to have this added into the game. I mean, it's all there except the scenes.

 

On the other hand, I feel a little like a hypocrite for wanting a straight LI to be made bisexual when I'd flip my lid for someone making the same suggestion for a homosexual LI. (But only a little--the situations are very different.)

 

I definitely don't want it now.  I'm pissed about what might have been, but I definitely think that it's too late for them to fix it at this point.  He's straight.  It's been established now.  If it were a bug (like Juhani) that would be one thing.  But it sounds like it was an active decision to cut this content.  I'm just very, very disappointed that this happened this way. 

 

Again, all I can hope is that the devs read how disappointed so many of us are that this type of character has not been available to gay PCs and make note for the future.  There have been 4 KISA characters.  4 out of 5 of the straight guys have been KISAs.  0 out of the 5 bisexual and gay guys have been KISAs.  There's a clear audience for this character type:  See the 60+ page gay KISA thread and the reaction in both this thread and that one. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I definitely don't want it now.  I'm pissed about what might have been, but I definitely think that it's too late for them to fix it at this point.  He's straight.  It's been established now.  If it were a bug (like Juhani) that would be one thing.  But it sounds like it was an active decision to cut this content.  I'm just very, very disappointed that this happened this way. 

 

Again, all I can hope is that the devs read how disappointed so many of us are that this type of character has not been available to gay PCs and make note for the future.  There have been 4 KISA characters.  4 out of 5 of the straight guys have been KISAs.  0 out of the 5 bisexual and gay guys have been KISAs.  There's a clear audience for this character type:  See the 60+ page gay KISA thread and the reaction in both this thread and that one. 

Wait, who are the 4 KISAs? The only one who I would count is Alistair, though he is a LLP(Long Lost Prince/Princess) rather than a KISA.

[Ryzaki]

Wait, who are the 4 KISAs? The only one who I would count is Alistair, though he is a LLP(Long Lost Prince/Princess) rather than a KISA.

 

Alistair, Cullen, Blackwall?, Sebastian.

 

That would be my guess.

[dgcatanisiri]

Wait, who are the 4 KISAs? The only one who I would count is Alistair, though he is a LLP(Long Lost Prince/Princess) rather than a KISA.

Alistair, Sebastian, Cassandra, and Cullen. All of them are fit the archetype of being a virtuous warrior of honor, as well as, in-universe, being holy warriors of the main religious force of Thedas (three of them having templar training, the fourth being a Chantry brother.)

[daveliam]

Wait, who are the 4 KISAs? The only one who I would count is Alistair, though he is a LLP(Long Lost Prince/Princess) rather than a KISA.

 

I would say that Alistair, Sebastian, Cullen, and Blackwall all fit that stereotype.  Remember that KISAs don't have to be squeaky clean.  Lancelot is the quintessential KISA and he had demons.  Sebastian could be argued that because he's an archer, he doesn't fit, but if Kaidan counts, Sebastian counts.  And I could see an argument against Blackwall except that his entire being as Blackwall is KISA to the max.  It's his past that isn't. 

 

The only straight guy that isn't a KISA to any extent is Solas.  On the other hand, none of the gay/bisexual guys are even close.

 

ETA:  I was only counting guys, but if we count gals, then Cassandra and Aveline are also KISAs.  Both straight.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I would say that Alistair, Sebastian, Cullen, and Blackwall all fit that stereotype.  Remember that KISAs don't have to be squeaky clean.  Lancelot is the quintessential KISA and he had demons.  Sebastian could be argued that because he's an archer, he doesn't fit, but if Kaidan counts, Sebastian counts.  And I could see an argument against Blackwall except that his entire being as Blackwall is KISA to the max.  It's his past that isn't. 

 

The only straight guy that isn't a KISA to any extent is Solas.  On the other hand, none of the gay/bisexual guys are even close.

 

ETA:  I was only counting guys, but if we count gals, then Cassandra and Aveline are also KISAs.  Both straight.

As I said, I grant Alistair that even though I see him as a different thing. 

Sebastian isn't a warrior thus isn't a knight. I read the KISA thread and you all said rogues don't count. 

Cullen is hardly a KISA anymore since he has advocated genocide in DAO. I know people can have ghosts but that's too big to dismiss.

Thom Rainier is the exact opposite of a KISA. Everything he did as "Blackwall" was all to cover and an attempt at redemption. 

Aveline doesn't count since she isn't a romance and if the flirting counts then she is a bi one. 

Cassandra counts I suppose, even though she does or supports some not KISA things. 

[daveliam]

As I said, I grant Alistair that even though I see him as a different thing. 

Sebastian isn't a warrior thus isn't a knight. I read the KISA thread and you all said rogues don't count. 

Cullen is hardly a KISA anymore since he has advocated genocide in DAO. I know people can have ghosts but that's too big to dismiss.

Thom Rainier is the exact opposite of a KISA. Everything he did as "Blackwall" was all to cover and an attempt at redemption. 

Aveline doesn't count since she isn't a romance and if the flirting counts then she is a bi one. 

Cassandra counts I suppose, even though she does or supports some not KISA things. 

 

I'm not going to debate this with you.  The fact that you refuse to call Blackwall by that name (thus spoiling it for anyone who reads any posts of yours), all because he woos Josephine if you don't romance her, makes it clear that you and I are never going to be able to come to agreement on this.

 

It's not something that you are interested in.  Fine.  But don't feel the need to come in and pick apart other people's request.  Especially since most of those same people have been very supportive of your requests.

[level4paperboy]

It was probably just a "phase". 

[daveliam]

That's not even close to the reason why I do that, but sure go ahead and make me seem petty. This coming from the person whining "Woe is me. I didn't get the exact kind of gay man I wanted." 

 

Yep.  We're done.  Clearly support flows one with you.  I'll continue to support your request because I think it's fair, though. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yep.  We're done.  Clearly support flows one with you.  I'll continue to support your request because I think it's fair, though. 

Again, have I ever once not supported the notion of having a gay KISA? The answer is no, I have never not supported that. I hope you do get one. 

[ZawiszaTheBlack]

http://danaduchy.tum...nd-m-inquisitor

 

Have a listen everyone.

 

Please do it Bioware, Cullen is so...Cullen *swoon*

 

Edit: This has also been discovered for Bi Cullen http://danaduchy.tum...andras-dialogue

 

You just made me... I'm shocked. Seriously. What's next? A cutscenes?

 

PS: If they know how to get the sound files, then how about the music files?

[karushna5]

Woah KISA is a general character trope. It is impossible usually to fit a general character idea perfectly into an individual. Some people will say Sebastian can't be a rogue because he doesn't steal. I actually played a dnd game where I played a lawful good rogue who was like the top detective of his city and was told that went aggainst the "rogue code"

 

KISA really is someone who is tough, capable, and generally "noble" (although that word is pretty subjective and changes it meaning deciding on how you interpret it) and usually the sweeper than the sweepee so maybe confident.

 

Alistair counts

Aveline does count she is just Donnics KISA (sigh)

Sebastian counts

Cassandra is practically the trope personified (sigh)

Blackwall personally to me is on the edge for the same reason Fenris and Bull are. Both good people but Blackwall is all about his own redemption and still very much struggling about his horrific deeds that his cruelty seems to be about him more than his goodness, but Noble is a subjective term. One's Dark angst ridden tragic figure is another's KISA.

[eyezonlyii]

Technically one could count Justice as KISA too...just saying.

[veeia]

Blackwall plays with KISA tropes, but if he had been the only gay LI, I think people would be (rightfully) upset about that.

If he was bi Id have to choose between him and Dorian for male Quizzie, and I would die. But it's a death id suffer though

Really disappointed about Cullen. It would be cool to restore it, but the damage is done, you know?

[Natashina]

Technically one could count Justice as KISA too...just saying.

Yeeah, but there is the whole "in the rotting body of Kristoff" thing that kinda ruins it.  

[veeia]

Also if Cullen was bi then gay men would have more romance options than straight men, can you imagine what a wonderful gesture that would have been. Sigh. but yeah. What's done is done.

[karushna5]

Technically one could count Justice as KISA too...just saying.

 

Yeah he is! Personified. No one wants to romance him, but he is a KISA.

 

I forgot, Cullen is a KISA too. I wouldn't count him in DA2 or Origins, but DA3 he was virtuous pretty well. Cullen in Inquisition is definitely a KISA

[eyezonlyii]

Also if Cullen was bi then gay men would have more romance options than straight men, can you imagine what a wonderful gesture that would have been. Sigh. but yeah. What's done is done.

oh that was brought up in the KISA thread LOL

[AEve1]

Sorry, maybe I'm being dense. What would be the potential objections to restoring the content? If Cullen was intended to bi from the beginning, how would that be a retcon or changing his orientation? It's not like he says in-game that he's not interested in men - he just tells certain inquisitors that he's not looking for a relationship at the moment. Is the problem that Bioware referred to him as straight in some panels/press releases, so people who aren't aware of the original intent would view it as a retcon if they'd seen that information?

[daveliam]

Sorry, maybe I'm being dense. What would be the potential objections to restoring the content? If Cullen was intended to bi from the beginning, how would that be a retcon or changing his orientation? It's not like he says in-game that he's not interested in men - he just tells certain inquisitors that he's not looking for a relationship at the moment. Is the problem that Bioware referred to him as straight in some panels/press releases, so people who aren't aware of the original intent would view it as a retcon if they'd seen that information?

 

I just think it's a slippery slope.  They've referred to him as straight.  He's been straight in thousands of playthroughs.  If they restored that content in a patch, it would be construed as 'turning a straight character bisexual'.  People already lose their minds about Kaidan and Anders and they were bisexual when their games shipped.  I think it would cause more trouble than it's worth, personally.  I can already hear the "pandering", "SJW", "gay agenda", "shoving things down throats", etc.  I think it's better to leave this one alone and just move forward.   He's still an awesome guy in DA: I (surprisingly) and we have two other awesome guys available to us.  Hopefully, the feedback is noted for the future, though.  It's really all I'm hoping for.

[Lee80]

It was sad when they announced him to be straight, but hearing that him being bisexual is actually cut content?  That stings really bad.  I adore Cullen's romance, and it should have been bisexual.  This is very depressing news indeed.  

[dgcatanisiri]

Sorry, maybe I'm being dense. What would be the potential objections to restoring the content? If Cullen was intended to bi from the beginning, how would that be a retcon or changing his orientation? It's not like he says in-game that he's not interested in men - he just tells certain inquisitors that he's not looking for a relationship at the moment. Is the problem that Bioware referred to him as straight in some panels/press releases, so people who aren't aware of the original intent would view it as a retcon if they'd seen that information?

 

I think the biggest concern from some is optics of it - either it's patching in 'more content' post-release that should have been there to begin with, setting precedent for shipping things in unfinished states, and that NOW it's a retcon, that they're giving in to player demands, or that it's 'favoritism' because now they're 'putting in' more romance material and such for people who raised a fit and are considered 'minority' of players, that if BioWare 'gives in' on Cullen, shouldn't they do the same with every other romance?

 

Which, frankly, I am tempted to say they should just say bull and do it anyway. Either way is going to make some segment upset, this way at least it makes a segment happy with content they're actually getting, rather than pissed off over content they could have gotten.

[AEve1]

I just think it's a slippery slope.  They've referred to him as straight.  He's been straight in thousands of playthroughs.  If they restored that content in a patch, it would be construed as 'turning a straight character bisexual'.  People already lose their minds about Kaidan and Anders and they were bisexual when their games shipped.  I think it would cause more trouble than it's worth, personally.  I can already hear the "pandering", "SJW", "gay agenda", "shoving things down throats", etc.  I think it's better to leave this one alone and just move forward.   He's still an awesome guy in DA: I (surprisingly) and we have two other awesome guys available to us.  Hopefully, the feedback is noted for the future, though.  It's really all I'm hoping for.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, there's probably enough controversy around this game already.