1051 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

It was sad when they announced him to be straight, but hearing that him being bisexual is actually cut content?  That stings really bad.  I adore Cullen's romance, and it should have been bisexual.  This is very depressing news indeed.  

I think the biggest concern from some is optics of it - either it's patching in 'more content' post-release that should have been there to begin with, setting precedent for shipping things in unfinished states, and that NOW it's a retcon, that they're giving in to player demands, or that it's 'favoritism' because now they're 'putting in' more romance material and such for people who raised a fit and are considered 'minority' of players, that if BioWare 'gives in' on Cullen, shouldn't they do the same with every other romance?

 

Which, frankly, I am tempted to say they should just say bull and do it anyway. Either way is going to make some segment upset, this way at least it makes a segment happy with content they're actually getting, rather than pissed off over content they could have gotten.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, there's probably enough controversy around this game already.

 

I'm out of likes again.  Seriously, where do they go?  I owe each of you one like for being awesome.

[AEve1]

I think the biggest concern from some is optics of it - either it's patching in 'more content' post-release that should have been there to begin with, setting precedent for shipping things in unfinished states, and that NOW it's a retcon, that they're giving in to player demands, or that it's 'favoritism' because now they're 'putting in' more romance material and such for people who raised a fit and are considered 'minority' of players, that if BioWare 'gives in' on Cullen, shouldn't they do the same with every other romance?

 

Which, frankly, I am tempted to say they should just say bull and do it anyway. Either way is going to make some segment upset, this way at least it makes a segment happy with content they're actually getting, rather than pissed off over content they could have gotten.

Guess that's what PC mods are for. Hey, it worked for KOTOR2!

[Spirit Keeper]

I think the biggest concern from some is optics of it - either it's patching in 'more content' post-release that should have been there to begin with, setting precedent for shipping things in unfinished states, and that NOW it's a retcon, that they're giving in to player demands, or that it's 'favoritism' because now they're 'putting in' more romance material and such for people who raised a fit and are considered 'minority' of players, that if BioWare 'gives in' on Cullen, shouldn't they do the same with every other romance?

 

Which, frankly, I am tempted to say they should just say bull and do it anyway. Either way is going to make some segment upset, this way at least it makes a segment happy with content they're actually getting, rather than pissed off over content they could have gotten.

Bioware's update post for patch 2 did mention updating the games content with things they had originally wanted to do. This 'could' mean putting Cullen's bi romance status back into the game. If not, then we'll all just have to hope PC modders figure out a way. Modders do have a habit of doing the impossible.

[veeia]

I would be fine with them restoring the content, and I really don't care as much about the backlash, but I don't like the idea of gay content being the "afterthought", or the "oh now we have time we can do the content we deemed less important!"

 

It wouldn't bother me as much if it turned out a character was race gated for time and they intended on patching it in later, but for that. Nah. That just...doesn't sit well with me. But I do think some people would be really happy if they did it, even though that, so I wouldn't raise a fuss or anything.  

[Spirit Keeper]

Guess that's what PC mods are for. Hey, it worked for KOTOR2!

Frostbyte 3 Engine. It's notorious for being difficult to mod.

[ZawiszaTheBlack]

DLC? Let's pray to the maker! Those dialogue lines cannot be wasted.

 

You made my day with this post. BTW, I really like Stephen Colbert.
 

[Lee80]

I would be fine with them restoring the content, and I really don't care as much about the backlash, but I don't like the idea of gay content being the "afterthought", or the "oh now we have time we can do the content we deemed less important!"

 

It wouldn't bother me as much if it turned out a character was race gated for time and they intended on patching it in later, but for that. Nah. That just...doesn't sit well with me. But I do think some people would be really happy if they did it, even though that, so I wouldn't raise a fuss or anything.

They absolutely should add it in.  There's no good reason in my mind why they shouldn't.  People are going to complain about things anyway, might as well give them something new to talk about.  Ugh, please BioWare!  Do the right thing!  

[Lunatic Lace]

I would be fine with them restoring the content, and I really don't care as much about the backlash, but I don't like the idea of gay content being the "afterthought", or the "oh now we have time we can do the content we deemed less important!"

 

It wouldn't bother me as much if it turned out a character was race gated for time and they intended on patching it in later, but for that. Nah. That just...doesn't sit well with me. But I do think some people would be really happy if they did it, even though that, so I wouldn't raise a fuss or anything.

 

 

Wait, am I misunderstanding or are you saying it would be okay for them to alter one sexual preference if it was in the works at one point and not another? How is one more acceptable than the other?

[eyezonlyii]

Yeah, I'd rather they not change it back either. Like I said in another thread, this opens up the opportunity for another character without his baggage. I just think of it as things deleted scenes from a movie: could they have been in, sure, but at the same time, there was a reason they were cut and the movie was still complete without it.

[veeia]

Wait, am I misunderstanding or are you saying it would be okay for them to alter one sexual preference if it was in the works at one point and not another? How is one more acceptable than the other?

 

They're not altering anything. These are design choices. Cullen was designed to be bisexual, but due to time constraints, they cut it. Adding back in the gay content later would make it feel like an afterthought or less important, which I'm not comfortable with due to a lot of real life implications there with how gay men are viewed and treated in society in general.  I mean, I wouldn't argue against it, because like I said, it would make some people really happy, and I'm gonna prioritize them over my frustrations with the process. 

 

If Solas was designed to be straight and for elves and dwarves, but they ran out of time and made him only for elves, but added in the dwarf content later when they had time, I wouldn't care as much, because while I am obsessed with dwarves and feel they are often an afterthought, they are also fictional and there's not the same weight behind it.

 

Does that make sense? 

[dgcatanisiri]

My big thing about the whole matter is that, for me, and I know I'm just one player among millions, but Dorian and Iron Bull both are not to my personal tastes in terms of romances. Meanwhile Cullen makes for a near perfect hit. But if I'm going to play a character of my sexuality, something that I almost exclusively am only able to do in BioWare produced games, Cullen is not an option in the game as is. Just Dorian and Iron Bull. So yes, I know that there's some things about it that look bad, and I'm aware that it may not be the best precedent in the business, but I would be happiest if they'd restore this content.

 

Sure, we could wait until the next game comes out and see a character of this archetype be bi/gay there, but frankly, I'm TIRED of having to wait, of being told 'someday you'll get a character like this.' The foundation is there. I'd rather they take it and build something with it, rather than start from the ground up and having to wait for another game, wait at least a year for POSSIBLY ME4 to provide a character like this, or the next Dragon Age game to come out in three plus years. I am SICK of being told 'your time will come.' It could be here right now!

[eyezonlyii]

My big thing about the whole matter is that, for me, and I know I'm just one player among millions, but Dorian and Iron Bull both are not to my personal tastes in terms of romances. Meanwhile Cullen makes for a near perfect hit. But if I'm going to play a character of my sexuality, something that I almost exclusively am only able to do in BioWare produced games, Cullen is not an option in the game as is. Just Dorian and Iron Bull. So yes, I know that there's some things about it that look bad, and I'm aware that it may not be the best precedent in the business, but I would be happiest if they'd restore this content.

 

Sure, we could wait until the next game comes out and see a character of this archetype be bi/gay there, but frankly, I'm TIRED of having to wait, of being told 'someday you'll get a character like this.' The foundation is there. I'd rather they take it and build something with it, rather than start from the ground up and having to wait for another game, wait at least a year for POSSIBLY ME4 to provide a character like this, or the next Dragon Age game to come out in three plus years. I am SICK of being told 'your time will come.' It could be here right now!

I completely understand this sentiment, I do as I too would have liked a Templar/Knight type character, and honestly, I thought neither Dorian or Bull would be for me either (and really Dorian still isn't), but adding this back in would not be a good business move, nor would it set a good precedent as had been noted earlier. Gamers are already viewed as a whiny, spoiled bunch, there's no reason to add more ammo to the fire.

[veeia]

Well said, dgcatansiri. I hope they do. I think my frustrations are mostly with things that have already happened, which is why there's no point in me saying that it's useless and should be tossed aside. Can't change the past, but if it makes people happy in the future to restore it even though it's uncomfortable and messy? Well, I'd rather y'all be happy. 

[Grieving Natashina]

I completely understand this sentiment, I do as I too would have liked a Templar/Knight type character, and honestly, I thought neither Dorian or Bull would be for me either (and really Dorian still isn't), but adding this back in would not be a good business move, nor would it set a good precedent as had been noted earlier. Gamers are already viewed as a whiny, spoiled bunch, there's no reason to add more ammo to the fire.

I can see both sides of this, but I feel the same way as eyez does here.  I think we've had enough folks trying to claim that they've been "blasted in the face" and had LGBT characters "shoved down their throats."  Okay, as ironically amusing as those terms can be, it's getting old.  Well, old again. This must be a post-release thing.

 

Anyway, I can certainly understand the disappointment.  Shoot, I had been rooting for Cullen to be a bisexual romance for the sake of his gay/bi male fans as well.  This is an archetype that I think would help benefit Dragon Age games as a whole, in terms of storytelling and representation.  Unfortunately, it's probably for the best that Cullen remains the way he is.  Adding something this big later would not only cause needless controversy, but we also have gotten enough comments like, "Content gets cut so evil EA can make their money in DLC, sheeple!"  This would just make things so much worse.

[Lunatic Lace]

They're not altering anything. These are design choices. Cullen was designed to be bisexual, but due to time constraints, they cut it. Adding back in the gay content later would make it feel like an afterthought or less important, which I'm not comfortable with due to a lot of real life implications there with how gay men are viewed and treated in society in general.  I mean, I wouldn't argue against it, because like I said, it would make some people really happy, and I'm gonna prioritize them over my frustrations with the process. 

 

If Solas was designed to be straight and for elves and dwarves, but they ran out of time and made him only for elves, but added in the dwarf content later when they had time, I wouldn't care as much, because while I am obsessed with dwarves and feel they are often an afterthought, they are also fictional and there's not the same weight behind it.

 

Does that make sense? 

 

 

To a certain extent, maybe?

 

If Cullen was designed to be bisexual, the content is already present in the game files and in the possible characterization, so to me personally it wouldn't be an afterthought but an opportunity to use something that they got far enough into production that there is actual viable content on the disc. It's restoring something that should have been there, and to me it's something that has made sense for the character since I first started playing.

 

Something along the lines of Solace having a sudden interest in dwarves doesn't seem nearly as logical to me specifically for the same reason that Cullen's does. It makes sense for the character.

 

If it was something that they completely developed on a whim after the game was released, rather than something that was plotted while the character was being developed, making it feasible even within the existing content of the game, it would be different to me. 

 

That being said, I would certainly prefer that a character be entirely developed and released officially over something getting patched in. It's just a serious shame that this had to happen for whatever reason, and I would be very happy to see Cullen's entire characterization be represented.

[eyezonlyii]

I wouldn't have a problem if they had pulled a scout Harding and let either sex flirt with Cullen, but have nothing happened until if/when his content was finished, then patched that into the game, so that it could be stated that yes, he is bisexual without changing his character. As it stands now, he turns down male characters as far as I know, so in essence it would be changing his character.

 

Bioware would be pulling a reverse of what Dorian's father wanted to pull on him. 

[veeia]

Well I could go on forever about why I think a Solas-Cadash relationship would make sense and in fact, be a better relationship than the one with Lavellan, but that's neither here nor there.

I hear what you're saying though, Lunatic Lace.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I wouldn't have a problem if they had pulled a scout Harding and let either sex flirt with Cullen, but have nothing happened until if/when his content was finished, then patched that into the game, so that it could be stated that yes, he is bisexual without changing his character. As it stands now, he turns down male characters as far as I know, so in essence it would be changing his character.

 

Bioware would be pulling a reverse of what Dorian's father wanted to pull on him. 

That's rather hyperbolic. Cullen turns down a male Inquisitor, but he never says it's because he's male, like Cassandra does with a female Inquisitor for example.

[veeia]

I also wouldn't care if he turned down maleQuizzie and it was changed. It's not retconning, it's fixing. I never got Dorian's personal quest with my character and never saw Mother Giselle's jerk face side, but after that was fixed, I didn't think she was retconned or that Dorian suddenly liked my Quizzie more, just that a problem was fixed. I mean it's different to change content, but not that different.

 

I am also a jerk who doesn't care if entitled gamers whine. They're gonna do it no matter what, I'd rather just ignore them and concentrate on the happy people who would get the content, because they're the people I care about.

 

Perhaps that's short sighted of me? But whatever. I'll accept it. I can be kind of bratty.

[Andir]

Re: how is it orientation changing.

 

First, I would like to say I know how this might come off. But please don't paint me with the wide stroke of, "unless they identify as otherwise they must be straight!" camp. I am not. Like stated before, I am bi and very well know what being bi means. Secondly, I also stand firmly that Anders was not a retcon. His writer clearly stated that he had always been bi. Sometimes you feel more comfortable flirting with one sex, sometimes you have a preference, etc. etc. Maybe that was the case with Anders in A. (even though I still think he was totally flirting with Nate. : p)

 

But with Cullen I do not believe that was the case. In Origins, it's not flirting. He has a massive crush on you no matter what you say to him or look like as long as you are a female. Copy paste that same character but now as a male and he does not have that attraction to you. It's the same character, but it's gender that he makes this attraction towards. Anyways, I definitely do not feel he was bi in Origins. You can create a lot of workarounds as to why he was only attracted to the female mage, but they're just that: workarounds. I strongly believe he was created as a straight male originally.

 

Back on to my new point. Yes, bi people can have a preference and can realize they're bi later in life. But if you add this to his character solely so he can become a romance, you're changing the character just to be romanced. I thought this was something Bioware would never do, which is why it just devastates me. 

 

And this is all coming from the guy that would have loved to romance a Cullen-type with a male Inquisitor.

 

Anyways, I do know how this comes off. Obviously I think that "straight is default unless they state otherwise" and such. I don't. 

 

I am just disappointed. Like, I can't even explain why this disappoints me so much it just does. I just thought that it was something Bioware wouldn't do. I really need to take a step away and figure out why a video game character and it's company disappoints me so much. It's making me really devastated and IDK even know why, send help.

 

And it's frustrating because I really would like to see a "KISA" (is that how you acronym it? x3) and would love to romance one with a male, finally.  (And another female KISA for the ladies.) But I don't think Cullen was the way to go.

 

I definitely don't think patching it in would be good. They've established him as straight by this point in DAI, so it would feel sketchy. And it would feel like making him bi wasn't intended, and was just an afterthought. Which is also sketchy. Which frustrates me too. GAH. I am just frustrated at a lot.

 

And sorry for the long complaint. I just am not okay with this whole situation. (Both that I felt that they changed him and the fact that it was so close to having a Knight m/m.) I hope you guys don't roll your eyes at me, I think you are all really snazzy. I just find this uncomfortable for certain reasons. : c

 

(Re-reading, I do come off as whiny and annoying. Oh well, no where else to express my thoughts.)

[veeia]

Only if they make Dorian bi.

 

Are you seriously comparing cut content for a "straight" character who was intended to be bi to a character who was always intended to be gay, and in fact, has "the horribleness of altering his sexuality" as a main part of his story??

[khellus]

@pengwin you are obviously not a "ginger"

[veeia]

You don't sound whiny, Andir,  you have a very well thought out position on it. 

 

I do think it's totally possible for Cullen to be bi and not have a crush on male!Warden. 10 years have passed since then, that's a lot of time for him to discover new things about himself.  And we don't know they did that just for him to be a romance, in fact, I would argue that they decided to do it for more reasons than that, because DA:I was all about not making romances bisexual just to be options. 

[eyezonlyii]

Re: how is it orientation changing.

 

First, I would like to say I know how this might come off. But please don't paint me with the wide stroke of, "unless they identify as otherwise they must be straight!" camp. I am not. Like stated before, I am bi and very well know what being bi means. Secondly, I also stand firmly that Anders was not a retcon. His writer clearly stated that he had always been bi. Sometimes you feel more comfortable flirting with one sex, sometimes you have a preference, etc. etc. Maybe that was the case with Anders in A. (even though I still think he was totally flirting with Nate. : p)

 

But with Cullen I do not believe that was the case. In Origins, it's not flirting. He has a massive crush on you no matter what you say to him or look like as long as you are a female. Copy paste that same character but now as a male and he does not have that attraction to you. It's the same character, but it's gender that he makes this attraction towards. Anyways, I definitely do not feel he was bi in Origins. You can create a lot of workarounds as to why he was only attracted to the female mage, but they're just that: workarounds. I strongly believe he was created as a straight male originally.

 

Back on to my new point. Yes, bi people can have a preference and can realize they're bi later in life. But if you add this to his character solely so he can become a romance, you're changing the character just to be romanced. I thought this was something Bioware would never do, which is why it just devastates me. 

 

And this is all coming from the guy that would have loved to romance a Cullen-type with a male Inquisitor.

 

Anyways, I do know how this comes off. Obviously I think that "straight is default unless they state otherwise" and such. I don't. 

 

I am just disappointed. Like, I can't even explain why this disappoints me so much it just does. I just thought that it was something Bioware wouldn't do. I really need to take a step away and figure out why a video game character and it's company disappoints me so much. It's making me really devastated and IDK even know why, send help.

 

And it's frustrating because I really would like to see a "KISA" (is that how you acronym it? x3) and would love to romance one with a male, finally.  (And another female KISA for the ladies.) But I don't think Cullen was the way to go.

 

I definitely don't think patching it in would be good. They've established him as straight by this point in DAI, so it would feel sketchy. And it would feel like making him bi wasn't intended, and was just an afterthought. Which is also sketchy. Which frustrates me too. GAH. I am just frustrated at a lot.

 

And sorry for the long complaint. I just am not okay with this whole situation. (Both that I felt that they changed him and the fact that it was so close to having a Knight m/m.) I hope you guys don't roll your eyes at me, I think you are all really snazzy. I just find this uncomfortable for certain reasons. : c

 

(Re-reading, I do come off as whiny and annoying. Oh well, no where else to express my thoughts.)

I completely agree with this. It lends a sort of Kaidan feel to the game, which as we can still see, people are still sore about. The main issue being that the second and third games clearly built on the fact that Kaidan was bi if modded in. Dragon Age doesn't do that with Cullen (as he is not a major character and cannot be romanced in the other two games). I would be ok if the content had made it into the finished game and he had some lines that reminisced about the mage character of either sex from the circle tower. As it stands now, he still only references the female mage. 

Other than what I have states, I really don't have any more points to argue other than to me it would seem a really skeezy move.