1051 réponses à ce sujet

[Grieving Natashina]

Um, considering this thread is about cut bisexual content, I have no idea what you're getting at.  For the record, even with all the debate that's going on here, I'd bet a lot of cash that the DA team isn't going to change their minds.  So, no.

[Monica21]

Not really.

 

The content is/was there. And it would make a lot of people happy. So why not?

It hurts NOBODY. It benefits some people, but because that person isn't you, the person it does benefit should lose out?

 

I'm really failing to see the point you are trying to make.

 

I'm saying the character, as presented, is straight, but there are options if you want your Inquisitor to romance him. Failing to take advantage of those options is the player's choosing.

 

You keep ignoring the fact that Cullen was originally intended the be bisexual and the content was only cut at the animation stage. Also, you keep saying that a gay male Inquisitor gets Josephine as a romance option... so I'm not sure how well you grasp the concepts that are being discussed.

 

I said bi or homosexual male. A bi male Inquisitor can romance Josephine.

[Solbranthius]

I've said this in another thread but I'll repeat it here since it's relevant: I'm very much in favour of every romance partner being bisexual and adjusting to the player being either male or female. I think that would be the best compromise since if people want Cullen to be in a straight romance they can indulge in that whilst those who want him to be gay can still enjoy the character to the fullest extent.

 

I'll be very, very disappointed if Cullen was indeed intended to be bisexual only for it to be scrapped. After Alistair in Dragon Age I really wanted a classically handsome knight to romance - yet so far that hasn't been an option. Neither Dorian or Iron Bull appeals to me and so I ended up romancing Cassandra and Josephine instead.

[Thiefy]

I find it funny how Bioware remove favorite features from each new title, but always add to the homosexuality/bisexual content.  Are they trying to convey a message you think?

what message do you think they are trying to say?

 

please, tell us all about it since it seems like you already have a good idea.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I'm saying the character, as presented, is straight, but there are options if you want your Inquisitor to romance him. Failing to take advantage of those options is the player's choosing.

 

 

I said bi or homosexual male. A bi male Inquisitor can romance Josephine.

But then you list the same number of options for a gay Inquisitor. As a gay man, I've only got two options. Not three. Also, why can't a bisexual guy romance Cassandra? And of course a bisexual person is going to have more options (usually) than someone with more strict parameters for a potential partner. Most importantly of all, I don't even understand why you bring up the number of options because I fail to see what it has to do with some people wanting Cullen to be presented in DAI as they originally intended.

[veeia]

Even if its not restored by BW, the thread is not useless or sad. We don't have to get exactly what we want to get our point heard and considered. It's Feedback and Suggestions, not " Give Me What I Want or Nothing."

[Grieving Natashina]

what message do you think they are trying to say?

 

please, tell us all about it since it seems like you already have a good idea.

Uh oh. Might want to take shelter.  

 

 

No offense Thief, but I can see exactly where this is going.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't since there is different interpretations of characters. Some characters have been developed years if not decades (like Donald the Duck) and they have had many writers. Importance of race, gender and orientation depends on how important they are to characters personality or story. There is lot of characters whose sexuality for example is never discussed or shown so their sexuality doesn't matter to their character. I think in Dorian's case sexuality is important to his character since his story is deeply connected to it.

 

Well this is just how I see it.

If those aspects of the character are never explored, then it is more of a fair game to expand on that since they aren't altering anything about the character but adding. It'd be like giving Cole a sexual orientation by having him become interested in guys and/or girls if

Spoiler

you make him more human in his personal quest.

 

I'm more referring to characters where those aspects are disclosed but then are changed for whatever reason. For example since you brought him up, Donald Duck. Donald's love interest is Daisy Duck. It's been this way since 1940. But say that for whatever reason, someone decides to change Donald to being interested to males. That person has altered an aspect of the character, which is not something I and I hope most people would approve of.

 

To bring it back to Cullen, regardless of their intentions for him Bioware promoted, sold, and handled Cullen as a heterosexual male. Changing that post-release is altering his character. It'd be different if handled like Kaidan where the ability to romance happens in different games. But if they did this to Cullen in DAI, it'd be like making Miranda interested in women in ME2 when she was promoted, sold, and handled as a heterosexual woman in that game.

[Thiefy]

I'm saying the character, as presented, is straight, but there are options if you want your Inquisitor to romance him. Failing to take advantage of those options is the player's choosing.

 

 

I said bi or homosexual male. A bi male Inquisitor can romance Josephine.

I don't exactly get why you are arguing with me then. As of right now Cullen is just straight, but there is content that could be restored so he is Bi. If it is restored, I would support it. I think Bioware restoring the content would be a boon to our male Cullenites and be a show of support for them. I also think this would be a good thing.

 

What's the problem?

 

In this case, I'm certain there is a great deal of content that will be discovered as modders dig through the files. We are only a month into the game and they've barely scratched the surface. What if someone uncovers another part of the game that isn't romance related but a part of a quest or something like that? Or more armors? More anything? Sure, it should all be in the game and in a perfect world it would be but here it then is a matter of who do they serve? What is restored first, if anything. This is why PC is the best option because if modders can restore it as they did with some of DAO content that was cut from Morrigan IIRC, they will. But for BW to do it, I don't think they will because it just opens the flood gates. And if they do it only because it was Cullen being bi for the LGBT community then there will be people ranting about that. I personally hope it does get restored as I think it would be nice for cullen fans to have that option. But I don't foresee that happening in this lifetime or any other by BW. By modders absolutely if it can it will. But but BW? Never. That's what makes this whole thread a bit sad because people are upset about it and knowing it could have been but isn't makes it worse. For PCer they'll have some hope that it might be a mod one day. For console, that's a smack in the face. The person who started this thread didn't even give that a thought - that it will never get restored because that is not what BW does unless it is massive outcry as was with the ME3 endings and that was a huge thing. I don't know if this could garner that much attention. So the whole thing is just pointless which is kind of sad. Bright side though is modders will absolutely restore it if they can so PCers will gain on that front.

Yeah, you bring up a lot of good, rational points. I've thought a lot about this too but it always boils down to I think this stuff should always be talked about instead of swept under a rug and that the people who would really enjoy/appreciate this content are also the ones who generally get over looked the most kind of make the mild headache worth it. 

[dgcatanisiri]

Even if its not restored by BW, the thread is not useless or sad. We don't have to get exactly what we want to get our point heard and considered. It's Feedback and Suggestions, not " Give Me What I Want or Nothing."

 

And the fact that there's this outcry, it's likely to at the least result in a discussion and dialogue, on both BW's part and between them and us. Even in the (if I'm honest and realistic, probably likely, though I can hope otherwise) event that they don't restore this content, they are very much aware of the problem BECAUSE we bring this up. They know that the players very much want, if not Cullen, then at the least a character cut from the same cloth who is bi/gay in future games. And maybe this will do something about the tendency within the game development circle of having the same-sex romance option cut due to time.

 

If we don't say anything, they won't know what to improve in the future.

[Monica21]

But then you list the same number of options for a gay Inquisitor. As a gay man, I've only got two options. Not three. Also, why can't a bisexual guy romance Cassandra? And of course a bisexual person is going to have more options (usually) than someone with more strict parameters for a potential partner. Most importantly of all, I don't even understand why you bring up the number of options because I fail to see what it has to do with some people wanting Cullen to be presented in DAI as they originally intended.

 

Well, "originally intended" didn't work because they apparently didn't have the resources. They likely didn't have the resources for a lot of things. I wish they had the resources to prevent me from falling through the floor in Skyhold or for me not to have encountered several of the bugs I've encountered. The game is probably half of what was "originally intended" and Cullen's sexuality is likely a very small part of it. What was "originally intended" is not terribly meaningful to me because a lot of content that the devs want to see doesn't make it into the game for a variety of reasons.

 

And, because this is a role-playing game after all, how about we talk about Inquisitors instead of ourselves? I understand that people often feel most comfortable playing characters that resemble themselves, but my Inquisitor is not me. I may be a straight female, but that certainly doesn't mean my Inquisitor has to be.

 

For what it's worth, I'd love to find out if Cassandra also has bisexual dialogue and see if there's nearly as much hue and cry about it as there is with Cullen.

[Greetsme]

One has nothing to do with the other. It's not like someone is sitting there and saying 'well we need more lgbt content so let's cut that' though you seem to have this kind of weird line of thinking as if that's actually how it works. Nope. They didn't cut something so they could make Dorian and Bull be options for gay men. Nothing was cut so Josephine and Sera were options for gay women. Sorry but that's just not how it works. There's not some master list of everything to include in a game and then some magical LGBT santa saying 'Sera? Check. Bull? Check. Dorian? Check. Josephine? Check. Now let's cut potions and tactics because we have to have balance.'

 

You know?  Something like "We will have to slim down the tactical combat and skill trees as we need to get those 3 new gay related companionship's finished before launch."

[Grieving Natashina]

You know?  Something like "We will have to slim down the tactical combat and skill trees as we need to get those 3 new gay related companionship's finished before launch."

Please tell me that you aren't serious.

[Thiefy]

Uh oh. Might want to take shelter.  

 

 

No offense Thief, but I can see exactly where this is going.  

     

 

None taken. I actually thought that was a hilarious response. 

 

 

 

For what it's worth, I'd love to find out if Cassandra also has bisexual dialogue and see if there's nearly as much hue and cry about it as there is with Cullen.

If there is cut bisexual content for Cass I'd support that too. I'm sure most of the other people here would as well.

[Panda]

If those aspects of the character are never explored, then fine it is fair game to expand on that since they aren't altering anything about the character but adding. It'd be like giving Cole a sexual orientation by having him become interested in guys and/or girls if

Spoiler

you make him more human in his personal quest.

 

I'm more referring to characters where those aspects are disclosed but then are changed for whatever reason. For example since you brought him up, Donald Duck. Donald's love interest is Daisy Duck. It's been this way since 1940. But say that for whatever reason, someone decides to change Donald to being interested to males. That person has altered an aspect of the character, which is not something I and I hope most people would approve of.

 

To bring it back to Cullen, regardless of their intentions for him Bioware promoted, sold, and handled Cullen as a heterosexual male. Changing that post-release is altering his character. It'd be different if handled like Kaidan where the ability to romance happens in different games. But if they did this to Cullen in DAI, it'd be like making Miranda interested in women in ME2 when she was promoted, sold, and handled as a heterosexual woman in that game.

 

If those aspects of the character are never explored, then fine it is fair game to expand on that since they aren't altering anything about the character but adding. It'd be like giving Cole a sexual orientation by having him become interested in guys and/or girls if

Spoiler

you make him more human in his personal quest.

 

I'm more referring to characters where those aspects are disclosed but then are changed for whatever reason. For example since you brought him up, Donald Duck. Donald's love interest is Daisy Duck. It's been this way since 1940. But say that for whatever reason, someone decides to change Donald to being interested to males. That person has altered an aspect of the character, which is not something I and I hope most people would approve of.

 

To bring it back to Cullen, regardless of their intentions for him Bioware promoted, sold, and handled Cullen as a heterosexual male. Changing that post-release is altering his character. It'd be different if handled like Kaidan where the ability to romance happens in different games. But if they did this to Cullen in DAI, it'd be like making Miranda interested in women in ME2 when she was promoted, sold, and handled as a heterosexual woman in that game.

 

Well I'm sure that BW has decided and they won't change it now. However I just think this means that Cullen's sexuality is not something set in the stone, he has been thought of both bisexual and hetero and he could be altered or rewritten in different ways. So if mods want to mod him as bisexual I don't have anything against it.

[Monica21]

I don't exactly get why you are arguing with me then. As of right now Cullen is just straight, but there is content that could be restored so he is Bi. If it is restored, I would support it. I think Bioware restoring the content would be a boon to our male Cullenites and be a show of support for them. I also think this would be a good thing.

 

What's the problem?

 

Again, you stated that restoring the content would show bi and homosexual male fans that they matter. Tell me exactly why you think those fans matter less to Bioware.

[veeia]

You know? Something like "We will have to slim down the tactical combat and skill trees as we need to get those 3 new gay related companionship's finished before launch."

Do you have any idea how videogame production process works? I mean, you obviously don't, but yeah. Wow.

the person responsible for animating romance scenes with Dorian was not the person building the battle system like lmao come on

I mean srsly this is a troll right?

I'm gonna go with that. Hahahah you're hilarious. Good one. Almost got me there.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well I'm sure that BW has decided and they won't change it now. However I just think this means that Cullen's sexuality is not something set in the stone, he has been thought of both bisexual and hetero and he could be altered or rewritten in different ways. So if mods want to mod him as bisexual I don't have anything against it.

If mods want to mod him as bisexual, I think other player's opinions won't matter in the slightest to them. Otherwise the mods found to be offensive would have stopped years ago. 

[veeia]

Yeah but the backlash against those mods means only a total jag is gonna do it. Popular opinion matters, even if it won't stop the whitewashing mods, it contextualized them by making them shameful and bad, not just a thing that happens.

[eyezonlyii]

There were mods making Alistair gay. I think there were two. They were fairly popular IIRC and there was no backlash. I guess that wasn't whitewashing because whitewashing is only when someone gay is made straight? Honestly asking here. I've never heard this term before and I have a gay brother. I guess we're too old for some of these terms or he's never said them around me.

whitewashing in this context refers to the changing of one aspect of a character to something completely different and usually more conventional for example the making of people of color white like the Airbender movie that came out years ago.

[veeia]

when someone said offensive mods I immediately thought of White Isabela so that's what I was talking about!