74 réponses à ce sujet

[JeffKaos]

It's been a while so I don't remember the exact circumstances but I remember playing as an "evil" mage character and during the origin part of the play through I killed Wynne. This was a real blow because on my previous play through's she was me main healer and pretty much stayed in the party all the time.

[Guha sharan]

Why is sparing Loghain such a big deal? He's a Godamn National Hero!! Yes he made some poor choices and yes he for some strange reason allied with Howe. But overall he's a good General, a Fine Warrior and has his nation's best interests at heart. Personally I could never understand why Alistair had to get so butthurt about the whole thing. I always let him become a drunk. He won't even stick around for the final battle, and he calls himself a Grey Warden.

[JeffKaos]

Why is sparing Loghain such a big deal? He's a Godamn National Hero!! Yes he made some poor choices and yes he for some strange reason allied with Howe. But overall he's a good General, a Fine Warrior and has his nation's best interests at heart. Personally I could never understand why Alistair had to get so butthurt about the whole thing. I always let him become a drunk. He won't even stick around for the final battle, and he calls himself a Grey Warden.

Wow, I saw him as an opportunist who abandoned his king to certain death so that he could seize power for himself. There's a bona fide blight happening and he single handedly starts a civil war right in the middle of it. But aside from the Couslands I wouldn't give a squirt of spit for any Fereldan noble. And if he WASN'T an opportunist and really did have the nations best interest at heart than why didn't he use his obvious influence to make sure the king lived? 

[DeadEyeMaster1]

So that's why I didn't kill Connor and bring the circle for a ritual to get into the fade instead. 

 

As the sacred Ashes, I think u should more suit yourself as the protagonist and think under the dragon age world perspectives. It's something religious and as u can see the whole game is about the Chantry, the Maker and Andraste so on, so I think it's a good thing to do not to pollute the ashes.

[DeadEyeMaster1]

Wow, I saw him as an opportunist who abandoned his king to certain death so that he could seize power for himself. There's a bona fide blight happening and he single handedly starts a civil war right in the middle of it. But aside from the Couslands I wouldn't give a squirt of spit for any Fereldan noble. And if he WASN'T an opportunist and really did have the nations best interest at heart than why didn't he use his obvious influence to make sure the king lived? 

When I was told by Arl Eamon that Loghain is not the man he used to be, I was wondering if he's an abomination I'd kill in the future or he's possessed leading him to be a distinct person. Then I chose let him die by my hands.

[Drakonys]

You don't need to be possessed to act treacherously. Loghain was full of hate about the Orlesians and the Wardens (That were, according to his perspective, Orlesians) and hateful people can do pretty much stupid things.

[DarknessNox]

Well I always tried to play for the best outcome. I tried to do everything as a bad person once. It was horrible and I deleted that save.

For me there are a lot of reprehensible actions in this game.

 

Killing any of the companions for example. Sten was at first questionable. Because you also have the secret companion. He is truly evil, Sten isn't. He was in a foreign country, left all alone and scared like a fox that is being hunted. He deserved a chance to redeem himself, which he did.

 

Another one is defiling the urn of sacred ashes. I'm totally not religious and my ingame actions are pretty much the same, but I respect that other people do believe and even ingame I couldn't do that. Leliana speaks with such devotion about Andraste, so clearly defiling her ashes is wrong.

 

Another such action for me is not helping the werewolves. Zathrian is to blame, but why do innocents have to suffer for a crime someone else commited so long ago? What happened to his children was a tragedy, but now his clan and innocents were suffering. I helped the werewolves and convinced the clan to let go of the grudge. 

 

Also I must mention Nathaniel. I had very strange feelings about him at first. Yes I was mad because I know what his father did and I could not forgive Rendon, not ever. But Nathaniel wasn't even there. He never knew. And most of all he was never told the whole truth eighter. I'm not some kind of tyrant so I let him go. And when I recruited him I made sure to keep him alive until the end. And I'm happy I did.

 

Much of the other things have already been said. Although I didn't read all of them. Also I saved Connor. I hate this stupid Fade so much, but after all he is just a stupid, desperate little kid. He was not evil in his soul and deserved a chance from me. 

[Ambivalent]

Hmm urn of sacred ashes is a "questionable" thing to save. Not only because i didn't like all that Maker/Andraste stuff that was preached to me for hours but also i think it is open to manipulation in due time. I think in time there will be a  few tons of ashes availible to trade But no i don't generally litter it.

 

For Loghain choice i think Bioware failed here.

 

Loghain is right about hatred towards Orlessians and right to be skeptical towards Wardens since nobody really knows what are Wardens for until last battle, not counting they betrayed Ferelden too.

 

Cailan was trying to get rid of his daughter to marry to Orlessian queen which means Cailan was trying to form an alliance and even more, though old wounds didn't heal yet. Not mentioning Cailan's "fascination" with tales and lack of leadership.

 

If i was lead designer or story writer i'd make Loghain more sensible, just like what'd suit to him. A war hero, a powerful man(Probably most powerful man alive after Bryce's death), a strategical genius etc.

 

Instead of sending assassins he could send a messenger to lead a conversation between us and him for example. Which could make Landsmeet earlier and in more "sensible" way.

 

He is not Arl Howe style stupid, typical bad guy, i'm not sure even if he's bad at start but instead of making choice harder Bioware went with "We need another bland villain so let's make him more evil than he should be"

 

PS: More on Landsmeet... Nobody needed Denerim's support after getting truck loads of allies. Let them fight over a throne i have a country to save. Heh i can even siege the city to claim the throne in a sense. None of my allies(Or at least most of them) wouldn't care if this race or gender rules over them. Or maybe i should be able to say "Okay then, you fight with Archdemon, i'm leaving" and become drunk until demon gets me too  

[TonyB]

Not getting Leliana her pet nug is unforgiveable...

[Riven326]

I never understood why defiling the ashes was an option. What's the point of it?

 

Why is sparing Loghain such a big deal? He's a Godamn National Hero!! Yes he made some poor choices and yes he for some strange reason allied with Howe. But overall he's a good General, a Fine Warrior and has his nation's best interests at heart. Personally I could never understand why Alistair had to get so butthurt about the whole thing. I always let him become a drunk. He won't even stick around for the final battle, and he calls himself a Grey Warden.

Adolf Hitler had Germany's best interests at heart. Should we have spared him and ignored all of the atrocities committed in his name because he was considered a hero by many?

[Cypher0020]

Killing Connor or Isolde

Keeping the Anvil

Damaging the Urn

Siding purely with the wolves or the elves....

Letting Alistair be killed

Killing Wynne or Leliana 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The two that stand out the most are leaving Redcliffe to be destroyed and siding with the werewolves and killing the Dalish Clan.

[Jaison1986]

Killing Connor or Isolde

Keeping the Anvil

Damaging the Urn

Siding purely with the wolves or the elves....

Letting Alistair be killed

Killing Wynne or Leliana 

 

They're responsible for all the destruction on Redcliffe. Innocents died just so they could fulfill their selfish desiders.

The Anvil is a tool for the greater good. No more, no less. It's no different then the grey warden joining

The urn is just a inanimate object. Andraste is dead for centuries. Yeah, not the nicest thing to do, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it

Well, the wolves and the elves both share responsability

Alistair abandons you for putting duty ahead of personal feelings. He brought that situation on himself

Wynne attacks you for some stupid ashes. Who in their right mind would try to murder someone over a object?

 

What I would consider truly evil are the following:

 

Killing the elves at the allienage. 

Killing the caged soldier at Ostagar. That's just gratuitious violence

Killing the dog at Ostagar

Killing the helpless dalish hunter in the Brecilian forest.

Killing the Halla

Leave Redcliffe to die

[Pokemario]

As a mage, let Isolde sacrifice herself for the blood magic ritual and then allow the demon to possess Connor at a later date.

 

Romance Alistair and execute him.

 

As a city elf, let your cousin (and possibly your bride) get raped by Vaughn,then later in the game allow the Tevinter mage to kill many of the alienage elves,including your father. Don't save the alienage during the Battle of Denerim.

[sylvanaerie]

Hard to say.  I've done just about everything in the game (if only to see it).  These are all good examples and some I never even thought of doing (even though it's in the game).  What I consider reprehensible (not even able to do to see in game) is a very short list since I have at least done most things to see different parts of the game.  I realize I already posted but I have to amend my list.  There are a couple more things I haven't done in the game than I originally thought through.

What I have never done, even as a "do it to watch then reload" thing:

 

1) Leaving the wedding party and your cousin to be gang raped by a bunch of spoiled nobles in the CE origin.  While it may be argued you're doing it 'to save more lives' I don't think Vaughan is going to keep his word.  Doesn't stop the later purge either from Howe.

 

2) Defile the ashes.  Never done it.  Ever.  To me defiling someone's final resting place is abhorrent.  Nor is there any viable reason I can see to do this in game beyond just 'for the lulz'.  Even if you hate the Chantry, what does it serve to defile the final remains  of a dead woman?  No one will ever know or see.  From an RP standpoint anyway.  Obviously, there is unlocking the Reaver specialization, but I couldn't even bring myself to do it then reload.

 

3) Allowing the slavers to take the elves at the end of "Unrest in the Alienage".  Or worse, sacrificing them in a blood ritual.

 

4) Allow Anora to kill Alistair.  It just seems pretty pointless to do so at that point, though I suppose it can be argued that she has to protect her throne from civil uprisings which can be conceivably raised in his name, even if he has no desire for the throne.  

 

Other things I don't normally do, but have done them just to see what happens, like abandoning Redcliffe to the undead horde, killing Connor.  I even sided werewolves once.  Some things I kept, some things I just saw what I wanted to see and reloaded.

[Mike3207]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) Allow Anora to kill Alistair.  It just seems pretty pointless to do so at that point, though I suppose it can be argued that she has to protect her throne from civil uprisings which can be conceivably raised in his name, even if he has no desire for the throne.  

 

 

 

It's really all about Eamon. I'd trust Alistair if he said he wouldn't seek the throne again; he's an honest enough guy he'd stick to his word. The same can't be said of Eamon as he would continue to foster rebellions in Alistair's name and/or do what ever he could to kill Anora. The Drunk Alistair cameo in DA2 only fosters this view, as I suspect he's bringing Alistair back to foster another rebellion. If it were possible to kill Eamon to avoid the rebellions, killing Alistair wouldn't be viable. Since all you can do is kill Eamon's puppet, you definitely have to consider Anora's point of view on this. I don't really think Alistair is a puppet, but his inability to confront Eamon about his behavior makes him the equivalent of one.

 

The bigger issue for me is Anora trying to kill Alistair if her father survives, but sparing him if Loghain is dead. The only way that logic makes sense is if you think Loghain's presence is sufficient to keep Eamon in check.

Modifié par Mike3207, 28 mai 2015 - 01:43 .

[sylvanaerie]

It's really all about Eamon. I'd trust Alistair if he said he wouldn't seek the throne again; he's an honest enough guy he'd stick to his word. The same can't be said of Eamon as he would continue to foster rebellions in Alistair's name and/or do what ever he could to kill Anora. The Drunk Alistair cameo in DA2 only fosters this view, as I suspect he's bringing Alistair back to foster another rebellion. If it were possible to kill Eamon to avoid the rebellions, killing Alistair wouldn't be viable. Since all you can do is kill Eamon's puppet, you definitely have to consider Anora's point of view on this. I don't really think Alistair is a puppet, but his inability to confront Eamon about his behavior makes him the equivalent of one.

 

The bigger issue for me is Anora trying to kill Alistair if her father survives, but sparing him if Loghain is dead. The only way that logic makes sense is if you think Loghain's presence is sufficient to keep Eamon in check.

 

Yea, I get why it's done, I just can't do it myself.  Eamon's ambition is the issue, and tbh it was in the back of my head that Teagan coming to get Drunken Alistair in Kirkwall was for that reason, but nothing comes of it, at least nothing in DA2 or Inquisition.  While having Alistair as a 'rallying point' for civil unrest, Eamon wouldn't need him alive to stir up trouble if he was of a mind to, as I could see him making 'the last Theirin brutally murdered by Anora' a martyr for making trouble for Anora.

 

I can even understand why she seeks his death if Loghain lives.  Alistair isn't willing to drop it and let the matter go in this case.  She's afraid it will create more trouble than she can afford at the time, and the entire purpose of the Landsmeet is to stop the infighting and deal effectively with the Blight.  If Loghain is dead, Alistair is content to forswear the throne and is no further threat to her, or Ferelden unity.  Though I get the feeling Warden Alistair might have been "encouraged" by Anora or her people to leave Ferelden because of some of the dialogue he had on my King Cousland Inquisition world state.

 

Oh, and 5) I've never killed the Halla in the Dalish camp either.

[MisterJB]

 

Selling a child's soul so you can get your freaky on with a demon.

...d*ck.

[Illegitimus]

Wow, I saw him as an opportunist who abandoned his king to certain death so that he could seize power for himself. There's a bona fide blight happening and he single handedly starts a civil war right in the middle of it. But aside from the Couslands I wouldn't give a squirt of spit for any Fereldan noble. And if he WASN'T an opportunist and really did have the nations best interest at heart than why didn't he use his obvious influence to make sure the king lived? 

 

That assumes the king living is in the realm's best interests, a proposition which is open to question.  Callan, a not terribly competent administrator or battle-leader  was being influenced by Arl Eamon, a man with an Orlesian wife to divorce Anora and marry Empress Celine.  That is exactly the kind of thing which will in fact lead to Ferelden being reabsorbed by Orlais.  Arranging for Callan to have a fatal accident to prevent that is far from unreasonable for a man whose self-worth is heavily invested in keeping the victory he won.  I wouldn't have the slightest qualm about sparing a Loghain who'd just arranged for a little poison in Callan's cup.  That's psuedo-medieval politics for you.  If I'm going to spare Sten of the Murderous Temper Tantrum, Loghain's a no-brainer on that score. What actually would make it a difficult decision is that Loghain wrote off the half the army at Ostagar in the process.  That was unconscionable and extremely damaging to the cause that really matters to me as a Grey Warden.

 

However, as a Grey Warden I know that becoming a Grey Warden is in fact no honour no matter what outsiders think.  Stripping Loghain of his position, making him drink darkspawn blood, and if he survives putting him on the front lines against an arch-demon may qualify as mercy, but it's faint mercy.  So no, I don't number it among the worst things you can do in the game.  At least it serves a valid purpose.

[Broganisity]

Not recruiting Dog, you solas (HUE HUE HUE) abominations.

[Lazarillo]

There a lot of actions I won't make, though a lot of those are more story based (I basically won't skip any mission that's available, for example, though I might find creative ways to end them).  There are also ones that I won't make because they're just kinda jerk moves, but not necessarily morally reprehensible (like not giving the crazy orphan girl her stuff after clearing out the orphanage), or because there's not a practical or moral upside (Why side with the Templars when you have to take out the blood mages anyway and the Circle is the more useful ally?  Why abandon Redcliffe when you need to get into the castle anyway and it's not like you're going to save any time by leaving them to their fate?).

 

As far as actually morally bankrupt choices, letting the slavers sacrifice the elves is probably the worst.  I feel dirty just for having been asked that.  Like, am I so disgusting he even thought that could work?  Killing Connor is pretty hard to stomach, too.  I suspect some day I might have a Warden who can justify that, but I'll need to take a rather thorough bath afterwards.

[Mac007]

Letting Vaughn bribe you in the CE origin, killing the Dog at Ostagar, and sleeping with either of the elves at the Dalish camp then telling the other.

 

I'm probably weird, but I find the last one the worst because at least with the 1st you get money for it, and with the second your character might think he's saving the dog from a slow death. But the last one... there is no reason other than to be a dick.

[Tidus]

For me letting Vaughn bribe my CE is the most hateful thing I can think of.

 

Here's why.

 

While my Warden is stone cold he/she is not heartless and  could never betray his/her people (city and Dalish), friends,, his love and those in need.He/she will not hesitate to kill shems especially Loghain.

 

My female warden breaks up with Alistair so he can marry Anora and then she fades away with Leliana to travel the world.

[Aren]

You don't need to be possessed to act treacherously. Loghain was full of hate about the Orlesians and the Wardens (That were, according to his perspective, Orlesians) and hateful people can do pretty much stupid things.

A demon make him do it.