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Varric as Dual rogue instead of Bianca ?


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#1
fcedric

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Hello, 

I'm a mage, and as a mage (and only when my inquisitor is a mage) i can't be fan of rogue with bow, in other way, if a keep Varric or Sera with a bow, i can't get them with another mage (for more barrier) ... or my party will be 3 distant attacker and only one Tank ...

The best team for me is 1 dual weapon rogue, 1 warrior  and 2 mages (a mabari as warrior would have been great but there is no mabari in DAI)... 

So i will probably build a dual weapon Varric instead of a Varric/Bianca...

 

Your advise ? Any suggestion ? 

Thanks

Ced



#2
kstarler

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I've never tried Varric without Bianca, but I know that Sera makes an excellent DW Rogue as a Tempest.

 

If I were speccing Varric to DW, I'd pretty much fill the DW and Stealth trees. I don't recall the Artificer passives being all that great compared to the other abilities out there.


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#3
RavenousIron

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Just a quick tip, Dual Dagger AI controlled Rogue is horrible. They don't really know what to do or how to maximize their damage so half the time you'll end up having to control them in order to keep them out of trouble and do the most damage you can. I'd advise only taking one Rogue with you. Varric is one of my favorite characters in the series so I'd say stick with him and change out Sera for someone else. Iron Bull is a great option, he is a little squishy early on but you can get around that by giving him some decent armor.


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#4
kstarler

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Another suggestion might be to fill out Vivienne's Knight Enchanter tree and set her ranged abilities to disabled, or Spirit Blade/Fade Cloak to preferred. That would give you a semi-melee mage, and you could focus on getting passives to enhance barrier/spirit blade/fade cloak. Then, you could spec your mage to detonate on any chills generated by her barrier dropping.


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#5
fcedric

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Yes i agree, always one rogue in my team, no more... 

Usually i take Cassandra, Cole, and Solas, or Dorian... (i hate this dam'n snob Vivienne)

But in my precedent party, during all the game, i have never or mostly never take Varric with me ... Because i was mage, and Varric a distant attacker...

So for this reason, i re-specialise his power to have Varric as Dual weapon attacker...

 

I agree about the IA and placing the rogue behind the enemy, but it's up to you to place your "pawns"... Usually i place them, but the problem, is with some powers (Surprise attack) the dual weapon attacker pierce the enemy and find himself on the other side of the attacker...

For this reason i always use "Surprise Attack" for first on my rogue (i have set it as favorite)

 

Cole and Sera as dual weapon rogue are incredibly dangerous... with their stealth power, and surprise attack which make them stealth (with the amelioration) they never take damage, and inflict incredible damages to enemy... And most of the time, i don't manage them...



#6
fcedric

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Finally, Varric as dual weapon rogue is perfect is your inquisitor is a mage...



#7
Chloe Thenab

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Bianca is much too powerful to use daggers instead.

#8
Vader20

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Finally, Varric as dual weapon rogue is perfect is your inquisitor is a mage...

 

Tried Varric as a dual wield rogue and it didn't work out.... He sucked. But not with Bianca. He is a must have in the party for me if I want to go dragon killing.



#9
Sinophile

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Bianca is much too powerful to use daggers instead.

Bianca seems to lag mid-game. However, if you make decent tier 3 upgrades for her she is a beast. Also, in my first playthrough Varric seemed to have gotten the most Amulets of power.

 

Tried Varric as a dual wield rogue and it didn't work out.... He sucked. But not with Bianca. He is a must have in the party for me if I want to go dragon killing.

I found Sera's tempest abilities quite useless for a ranged character. I also like taking Varric along as he has some of the best party banter.



#10
hwlrmnky

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I prefer to play with only one melee warrior and three ranged so far.

#11
Vader20

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Bianca seems to lag mid-game. However, if you make decent tier 3 upgrades for her she is a beast. Also, in my first playthrough Varric seemed to have gotten the most Amulets of power.

 

 

 

I found Sera's tempest abilities quite useless for a ranged character. I also like taking Varric along as he has some of the best party banter.

 

I  made Sera a dual wield rogue  which for works a lot better than Varric a dw.


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#12
Violet

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I've done both. Here's what I've learned.

 

- Do and find everything in the Hissing Wastes minus the dragon

I believe, having read quite a bit on the forums, some things are seriously misunderstood about 

the archer class and its mechanics. It's extremely powerful, even with tier 2 weapons. Short of 

Pride demons an arch can solo most anything in fairly short order. 

-- Archers require that you use Long Shot for fast immediate (high) damage.

-- Draw Shot will give maximum damage (at ranged) for most targets. It will also, usually, 

eliminate most targets in the same shot. 

-- Leaping Shot may do superior damage to all three of these, but this requires all arrows hit the

target and the target has already suffered sundering. 

----- You do not actually need to have a max damage bow to do this. Any ranged weapon 136 

damage or above is entirely capable of this.

----- Tier 2 bows do damage between 130 to 146 dps. 

----- Tier 3 bows with dragon materials will do around 172 dps. 

--------- Varric's damage is on the same count as Bows with the exception of a 62% crit chance at

maximum tier. 

 

Varric with Biance: 

- Varric is a bit counter-intuitive.

I have played through the game twice now and only last week realized his weapon can reach

maximum damage. For the longest time I was stuck at 70 DPS for Bianca.

- His first few upgrades can be found fairly easily while exploring.

- I believe one of the upgrades   can be found right inside Sky Haven.

  So, there's very little struggle at the start to have him be effective.

- Around level 15 or so you'll begin to think "I am really beginning to dislike you, Varric." His 

  dps should be 'stuck' at around 106 dps by this level. 

--- In order to reach his damage maximum you will need to explore the Hissing Wastes tombs.

------ One of the tombs possess his maximum damage upgrade: 172 dps when combined with

         his other tier 3 upgrades.

------ Hissing Wastes also possesses a Tier 3 bow of the same dps. It's a 'spiked bow'. It is of 

         a better model quality than the tier 2/1 Spiked Bow (I forget which the earlier model is)

 

Varric as Daggers Rogue

Varric is entirely capable of being a Dagger's Rogue. I personally found this to be more functional 

than using Bianca in early to mid-game.

- His usefulness in the role of a Dagger's Rogue seems to decline considerably post-level 15 or if 

you have gone to difficulties above Casual, though all that I've said throughout this remains true.

 

Varric's Versatility: 

- This I now largely attribute to my having not understood how archery mechanics work.

- However, become of the way characters operate in close quarters.  

-- because of this I feel it is possible Varric's usefulness is somewhat dependent on the class you 

    are playing and what manner of Tier weapons your party has.

----- if you have attained full tier 3 weapons for your party and Bianca's tier 3 upgrades Varric is

       entirely functional though I personally find no use for claptraps (or whatever they are called) 

       in any respect. 

- Varric seems to function best as a static character whom you do not interact with through the 

   Tactical View or controls. He's a dps drone with minimal tactical advantages (as I've constructed

   him). If you have super-Korean multitasking god-powers this story may be different, but these are 

   facts I've found work best for me. 



#13
VahnXIII

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Well, Bianca's happy.


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#14
squidney2k1

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It's viable but only with quite a bit of micro-managing.

For one, the AI for Dagger Rogues does not take advantage of flanking or stealth, which seriously cuts down their survivability. And 2nd, Sera makes a better Dagger Rogue later on due to the Tempest tree, which vastly increases the durability of a Dagger Rogue.

But early game, there's not much use in both Varric & Sera both being ranged. I respec one of them until I get to Skyhold, or if I'm playing as a Rogue myself. If you're playing as a mage, it always helps for someone else to draw aggro without taunting, and AI Rogues are good at that since their tactics are terrible.

#15
Gaz83

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Just a quick tip, Dual Dagger AI controlled Rogue is horrible. 

 

This. A hundred times this.

 

Unless you want to babysit, he's going to die if controlled by the computer. A lot. 

 

It's the reason I always spec Cole as an Archer. 



#16
downsouthman1

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Hello, 

I'm a mage, and as a mage (and only when my inquisitor is a mage) i can't be fan of rogue with bow, in other way, if a keep Varric or Sera with a bow, i can't get them with another mage (for more barrier) ... or my party will be 3 distant attacker and only one Tank ...

The best team for me is 1 dual weapon rogue, 1 warrior  and 2 mages (a mabari as warrior would have been great but there is no mabari in DAI)... 

So i will probably build a dual weapon Varric instead of a Varric/Bianca...

 

Your advise ? Any suggestion ? 

Thanks

Ced

I started my game that way & then switched Varric back to Bianca & just rerolled him a few days ago. Sera is my only DW Rogue.

 

Edit: Part of why I think Varric is not a good DWer is cuz he's a dwarf & short. So he doesn't cover enough ground to run from enemies & must rely solely on Stealth.



#17
downsouthman1

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Just a quick tip, Dual Dagger AI controlled Rogue is horrible. They don't really know what to do or how to maximize their damage so half the time you'll end up having to control them in order to keep them out of trouble and do the most damage you can. I'd advise only taking one Rogue with you. Varric is one of my favorite characters in the series so I'd say stick with him and change out Sera for someone else. Iron Bull is a great option, he is a little squishy early on but you can get around that by giving him some decent armor.

I cannot have Iron Bull running around with any other Warriors or DW Rogue Sera cuz he does so much damage in close quarters that he frequently one-hit kills his teammates, since I have FF enabled. But even Cass occasionally does the same thing with her Bull Rush attack. On occasion, I catch her barreling away from enemies & straight towards me. That sight = death.



#18
DiscoGhost

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Another suggestion might be to fill out Vivienne's Knight Enchanter tree and set her ranged abilities to disabled, or Spirit Blade/Fade Cloak to preferred. That would give you a semi-melee mage, and you could focus on getting passives to enhance barrier/spirit blade/fade cloak. Then, you could spec your mage to detonate on any chills generated by her barrier dropping.

 

ive seen some testing where if you set a charecters AI from Defend>(themselves), they are aggressive and stay in melee. to keep them ranged set AI to Follow>(themselves). this way you can have a warrior tank, knightenchanter melee mage. ranged mage, ranged rogue. or rock two warriors, a ranged rogue, and a mage(which is how i rolled on normal, but for nightmare two barriers probably makes it alot easier).



#19
StopCallingMeHarold

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Interesting idea. It never even crossed my mind. I just started game #2 and I am the archer but still want to take Varric out for fresh air and murder. I'll respect him now.

#20
Althaz

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Bianca is much too powerful to use daggers instead.

Bianca sucks. You can get >50% more dps from a crafted bow and Varric has the worst rogue specialization (not that Artificer sucks, it's just not as good as Assassin or Tempest). Bianca maxes out at like 170ish dps? Good bows are 250+dps (and easier to get). Before maxing out it can be even worse. You can get 170dps bows at the same time as Bianca is at 70dps. Bianca really needs some rebalancing. I would like to take Varric out sometime, but he's just so worthless in a fight.

 

Respeccing Varric might be a good way to make him more than a passenger if you want to take him along for his personality.

 

Of course you still have the problem of the AI not being able to use a DW rogue at even 20% effectiveness, but you can at least overcome that with enough micro-management.



#21
DarkAmaranth1966

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Viv is a great spirit mage, max her out for the barrier, then only let ehr have KE and one or two ranged, if she needs a fireball or ice blast but, make her use her blade.



#22
Fullmetall21

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Bianca sucks. You can get >50% more dps from a crafted bow and Varric has the worst rogue specialization (not that Artificer sucks, it's just not as good as Assassin or Tempest). Bianca maxes out at like 170ish dps? Good bows are 250+dps (and easier to get). Before maxing out it can be even worse. You can get 170dps bows at the same time as Bianca is at 70dps. Bianca really needs some rebalancing. I would like to take Varric out sometime, but he's just so worthless in a fight.

 

Respeccing Varric might be a good way to make him more than a passenger if you want to take him along for his personality.

 

Of course you still have the problem of the AI not being able to use a DW rogue at even 20% effectiveness, but you can at least overcome that with enough micro-management.

 

Bianca can also achieve an average of 50-65% critical chance and thats only from the weapon slot. That means you are free to go full dexterity on armor and critical damage on everything else. Artificer while not the best spec definitely does not suck if you can manage high crit chance in your group. I believe there are some people who are soloing dragons with Varric's focus ability. As before in dragon age 2 Varric's strength is reliable constant crits. I always take Varric and Cole with me when I'm not playing a rogue myself.



#23
fcedric

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I persist, as a mage, i prefer to have Varric as dual weapon, because, i like to have another mage with me ...

As this,  my ideal team is : 1 tank (Cassandra Shield/weapon or 2 hand) - 1 rogue (Cole/Sera/Varric) with 2 tier 3 daggers fully upgraded (2x350 damage +50% critical hit chance) - 1 mage (my Inquisitor is a knight enchanter) - Solas/Vivbitc**/Dorian 

As this the rogue and warrior always have a barrier to being protected and their concentrate on attack...

 

As a mage, if my Varric is using Bianca, i will never take him in the team.. I tried in my 1st game as a Mage, and Varric was never with us... Ok with Bianca fully upgraded he do damage, but i prefer to have a mage to dispel barriers, restore health (Vivienne/Knight enchanter), protect the other with barriers, and send massive area spells...

 

I'm playing Dragon Age in the highest difficulty level since Dragon Age, and Pride demons are nothing for me... Not too much difficult... if you have a good armor which protect against thunder and Magic... no problem...

 

I remember the forgotten one in Orzammar (the head, the body, the hands, the feet), or the Orlesian Comtess in Awakening, or Corypoilus in DA2 (DLC)... Piece of cake, but with 3 distant attacker and one tank, it is more difficult...

 

And i agree for Sera Tempest totally useful as Sera with a bow, and it is the same for Varric the power "Rain Arrow" is really really totally useless for a Varric dual dagger, i think the developper should have think to a power more adaptative for our playing style (in DAO we had the choice between 4 specializations for each character). 

 

If we want Varric as dual dagger (what will we doing with his special power "Rain arrow - pluie de flèches en français") and same for Sera if some people want play Sera as Distant attacker with a bow, what will they do with tempest ... 

 

In my actual game (Varric dual dagger) , i decided to forget Rain of Arrow for Varric, because it's a skill point throw from the window (jeté par la fenêtre)...

For Varric dual dagger, the entire specialization tree is useless except if i micro manage the entire team to attract enemy into traps :

Example : Entire team hold down (don't move)  -> Varric stealth -> Varric go stealth to place traps at 3 meters than enemy - > Varric dispell stealth and say hello to enemy to attract them -> run quickly in direction of the trap (enemy should follow Varric) -> Trap Boum -> Team move attack enemy...

 

But what i can say is : Sera is a great great dragon / demon /any big thing killer with dual dagger "Tempest" is really really nasty/vicious terrible, many many damages with dual dagger... And Ice flask / fire flask / electric flask is made for close combat ... 



#24
les987826

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Absolutely disgusting. reported



#25
fcedric

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Reported what ? the specialization specialized for a weapon type : Bow/Dagger ?